The church is opposing medical marijuana in Utah

[Russell C McGregor]

What's the state of the science? As I understand it, the clinical trial work has been a bit thin and there are all manner of suspected side-effects, and several professional medical bodies aren't happy about it.

It's not like the Church is opposing a well-researched and tested treatment regimen, after all.

 

[busybee]

5 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I think all drugs should be legal.  The government does not own our bodies.  It does not have a right to tell us what we can and can not do with them.  Of course those foolish enough to abuse their bodies should also expect and be willing to accept the consequences of of it.  If I choose to inject bleach into my veins, I must accept what results from that.

I agree. I suppose governments feel that making drugs legal would lead to an increase in the use of those substances, and don't want to have to pick up the tab for the increase in healthcare, welfare bills etc that would undoubtedly result from an increase in the number drug addicts. IMO

[Kenngo1969]

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/on-medicinal-marijuana/

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, busybee said:

I agree. I suppose governments feel that making drugs legal would lead to an increase in the use of those substances, and don't want to have to pick up the tab for the increase in healthcare, welfare bills etc that would undoubtedly result from an increase in the number drug addicts. IMO

Eh, wot?  You mean there actually are negative externalities of drug use that allegedly "only affects the user"?  Pshaw!  What a preposterous notion!

[Kenngo1969]

5 hours ago, Russell C McGregor said:

What's the state of the science? As I understand it, the clinical trial work has been a bit thin and there are all manner of suspected side-effects, and several professional medical bodies aren't happy about it.

It's not like the Church is opposing a well-researched and tested treatment regimen, after all.

 

Saying the research related to potential legitimate uses of marijuana is "a bit thin" is like saying that the Pope is "a bit Catholic."  There are millions of anecdotal reports, and maybe a couple dozen small, randomized, clinical trials ... if that.

[cacheman]

I would hope that folks who want to hold off on legalized medical marijuana due to the limited amount of research, would also fight for the government to allow the people and institutions capable of conducting this research to do so.

If even 10% of the anecdotal evidence is true, then it's a moral issue for us to make use of this plant in alleviating suffering.

 

[rodheadlee]

43 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2014/01/18/on-medicinal-marijuana/

"Marijuana is reported to have compounds with purportedly-beneficial effects.  Fine: isolate those compounds, test them to provide empirical data of their effectiveness, standardize their production, and make them available for medicinal purposes." Just exactly how long is that going to take? In the meantime my cancer survivor wife will keep smoking pot. It's the only thing keeping her appetite up. She is down to 91lbs and I don't care to see her lose more weight.

[JAHS]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

Perhaps they understand that only some would be taking it for that reason but they teach against using mindaltering substance because of the impact on our mental, emotional and spiritual health, so I think it is more that they see one can get the same medical effect from the extracts without the mindaltering effects of the THC, so why not go that route.

The availability of an alternative substance is no doubt one of the main reason the church opposes it..

Another minor issue might be the "avoiding the appearance of evil". If people see a Mormon smoking something when they know it is against their rules, they might see them as hypocrites or apostates.

[Whiskeypete]

Just anecdotal evidence, but from what I have seen/read, the whole "getting a prescription" part of it is pretty much a joke. If you want it, you can find a doctor willing to give you a prescription for what ever makes it happen.  I was listening to an interview with someone (male) who received their prescription from their wife's OB-GYN, for "insomnia" He frankly admitted it wasn't necessary but he sure liked having it.

Yes, there are people who have chronic conditions for whom it might be a solution. But is seems that for the vast majority of people frequenting the medial marijuana shops, its just a farce with the primary intention to get high.

[Teancum]

Fyi

 

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/06/marijuana/sides-text

[busybee]

11 minutes ago, Whiskeypete said:

Just anecdotal evidence, but from what I have seen/read, the whole "getting a prescription" part of it is pretty much a joke. If you want it, you can find a doctor willing to give you a prescription for what ever makes it happen.  I was listening to an interview with someone (male) who received their prescription from their wife's OB-GYN, for "insomnia" He frankly admitted it wasn't necessary but he sure liked having it.

Yes, there are people who have chronic conditions for whom it might be a solution. But is seems that for the vast majority of people frequenting the medial marijuana shops, its just a farce with the primary intention to get high.

Sadly this is true. What a pity the pot-heads got to the plant before the healers did  

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Added sugar is more dangerous than marijuana, so why is our church not politically against it? Added sugar also has an impact on mental health. New study found that using too much marijuana everyday for 5+ years could damage your short-term memory, but the evidence is not conclusive. For the people that need medical marijuana short-term memory skills are not their priority.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/01/what-happens-when-you-get-stoned-every-single-day-for-five-years/

Our church shouldn't get involved in politics again. 

 

 

 

This man has a beard. Therefore we can safely ignore anything he says.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I think all drugs should be legal.  The government does not own our bodies.  It does not have a right to tell us what we can and can not do with them.  Of course those foolish enough to abuse their bodies should also expect and be willing to accept the consequences of of it.  If I choose to inject bleach into my veins, I must accept what results from that.

I disagree. I do not want to live in a society where drugged driving is common (it is common enough already) or one filled with drug burnouts. If the consequences were limited to just the person using I might agree but they are not.

[thesometimesaint]

8 hours ago, Russell C McGregor said:

What's the state of the science? As I understand it, the clinical trial work has been a bit thin and there are all manner of suspected side-effects, and several professional medical bodies aren't happy about it.

It's not like the Church is opposing a well-researched and tested treatment regimen, after all.

 

There are some problems presented here.

Getting hold of medical grade Marijuana from the Feds for research is incredibly hard.

There is no Standard Dosage" for Marijuana.

Chain of custody issues in the growing, processing, distribution, and sales of Marijuana have yet to be worked out.

 

 

[TheSkepticChristian]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I disagree. I do not want to live in a society where drugged driving is common (it is common enough already) or one filled with drug burnouts. If the consequences were limited to just the person using I might agree but they are not.

It is possible that drug use will decrease if all drugs become legal, it is psychological, many people like to have fun with illegal stuff. People that are not afraid of cocaine don't care if it is illegal or not. 

 

7 hours ago, busybee said:

I agree. I suppose governments feel that making drugs legal would lead to an increase in the use of those substances, and don't want to have to pick up the tab for the increase in healthcare, welfare bills etc that would undoubtedly result from an increase in the number drug addicts. IMO

Bad assumption without any evidence to back it up.

Alcohol Prohibition Was A Failure

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

 

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

The availability of an alternative substance is no doubt one of the main reason the church opposes it..

but that is not always true, see video 

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

Is it that the church doesn't like the way marijuana is taken, as in being smoked? Would it be more acceptable to the church if it were taken via being eaten like edible candy bars or lollipops which they make.

[Scott Lloyd]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

Perhaps they understand that only some would be taking it for that reason but they teach against using mindaltering substance because of the impact on our mental, emotional and spiritual health, so I think it is more that they see one can get the same medical effect from the extracts without the mindaltering effects of the THC, so why not go that route.

So it appears that the thread title is inaccuarate in that the the Church has not expressed opposition to medical marijuana use per se, only that it opposes a specific bill now before the Utah Legislature, even as it takes no position on another bill before the Legislature having to do with medical marijuana use.

It would be more accurate to say that the Church opposes legislation that would have the effect, intended or unintended, of opening the door to more widespread recreational use of marijuana in society and the legalization thereof.

It further appears that several ill-informed posters in this thread immediately jumped on the bandwagon and chimed in without really understanding what the Church's position is.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[VideoGameJunkie]

I personally would never use marijuana even for medical purposes, because my psychiatrist said it would cause psychotic episodes with me because of my Tourettes and the meds I'm already taking.

[MorningStar]

Here's an interesting perspective.  There was a big prostitution bust here in the Seattle area involving women who had been trafficked in from South Korea and one of the ring leaders commented that he was a marijuana dealer until it was legalized.  That was a big financial hit for him, so he got into sex trafficking.  When drugs are legalized, how many dealers decide they're going to go back to college and do something respectable?  I doubt many do. 

That may be one unintended consequence.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Is it that the church doesn't like the way marijuana is taken, as in being smoked? Would it be more acceptable to the church if it were taken via being eaten like edible candy bars or lollipops which they make.

Brownies only.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

It is possible that drug use will decrease if all drugs become legal, it is psychological, many people like to have fun with illegal stuff. People that are not afraid of cocaine don't care if it is illegal or not. 

Despite Prohibition being largely evaded drinking did decrease when it was in effect. I really doubt legalizing drugs will cut consumption.

All the recreational drug users I know are not using drugs for the thrill of doing something illegal; they just like using them or are addicted or both.

[rpn]

It is really important in discussing this to keep in mind that the church is opposing a bill that would allow every part of the marijuana plant to be used for medical purposes.   It does not take a position on a bill that would allow people to use the kind of marijuana that is necessary for those with certain seizure disorders.  

There is little to no research that proves that smoking marijuana is any more effective than other pain medicines, or what conditions it might be effective for.   Many of us  know people with their medical marijuana cards who are using it just like our college friends used it, long before anyone claimed a medical purpose.   The state is right to be cautious about waiting for research that identifies real needs that cannot be addressed with any other known affordable substance.

[TheSkepticChristian]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Despite Prohibition being largely evaded drinking did decrease when it was in effect.

Initially, but then it went up very fast. Read 

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

and what about organized crime? The alcohol prohibition gave a lot of power to Al Capone. Alcohol is physically addictive, but marijuana is NOT physically addictive, it is psychologically addictive, big difference. 

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

It further appears that several ill-informed posters in this thread immediately jumped on the bandwagon and chimed in without really understanding what the Church's position is.

 

Please study some psychology, people have more fun when they know they are doing something wrong. They don't necessarily realize it, but it is true. Marijuana is not physically addictive like alcohol, it is just psychological, and being illegal makes it more addictive.  

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It would be more accurate to say that the Church opposes legislation that would have the effect, intended or unintended, of opening the door to more widespread recreational use of marijuana in society and the legalization thereof.

If all drugs become legal that will certainly end the drug cartels. 

If weed becomes legal, it's consumption will likely decrease. 

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Initially, but then it went up very fast. Read 

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

and what about organized crime? The alcohol prohibition gave a lot of power to Al Capone. Alcohol is physically addictive, but marijuana is NOT physically addictive, it is psychologically addictive, big difference. 

It did go up very fast but it never quite reached pre-prohibition levels.

Legalization is unlikely to help with criminal activity. In Colorado I know that the drug dealers are still in business because the legal stuff is prohibitively expensive.

You are right that marijuana has no real physical addiction. The worst I have heard is mild headaches for a day or two when giving it up and that is rare. Psychological addiction is pretty rare even among long-term users but it does happen.

20 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Please study some psychology, people have more fun when they know they are doing something wrong. They don't necessarily realize it, but it is true. Marijuana is not physically addictive like alcohol, it is just psychological, and being illegal makes it more addictive.  

Of course they do (I know I do) and that might affect beginning users to a degree but not in numbers high enough to decrease actual use. Being illegal does not make it more addictive. While in a few cases that might be true the same argument can be made for legalizing murder. If we take away the thrill of breaking the law then murder statistics will fall.

22 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

If all drugs become legal that will certainly end the drug cartels. 

If weed becomes legal, it's consumption will likely decrease. 

No and no. Legalization has not noticeably impacted the movement of marijuana in states where it is legal.

I recommend reading this article: 

http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/colorado-marijuana-legalization-2015-fighting-black-market-everyday-challenges-1913431

Note one guy sold it legally and then gave up and started selling it illegally and calculates he is making twice to three times as much as when he was selling legally. In fact black market dealers are thriving because of legalization. You may want to check your facts rather then assuming how you logically worked it out is the way it will work.

[TheSkepticChristian]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Legalization is unlikely to help with criminal activity. In Colorado I know that the drug dealers are still in business because the legal stuff is prohibitively expensive.

that contradicts the data I seen. So CFR that illegal marijuana business is still very powerful in Colorado.

You think illegal marijuana is not expensive?

" Since the first retail marijuana stores opened on January 1st, 2014, the state of Colorado has benefitted from a decrease in crime rates, a decrease in traffic fatalities, an increase in tax revenue and economic output from retail marijuana sales, and an increase in jobs."

https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/Colorado_Marijuana_Legalization_One_Year_Status_Report.pdf

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Of course they do (I know I do) and that might affect beginning users to a degree but not in numbers high enough to decrease actual use. Being illegal does not make it more addictive. While in a few cases that might be true the same argument can be made for legalizing murder. If we take away the thrill of breaking the law then murder statistics will fall.

Yes, many think marijuana is cool because it is illegal.