VideoGameJunkie Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Some people claim the story of Noah's ark never happened, same with the Tower of Babel. Of all the standard works, what stories don't you believe really happened, and were instead just made up stories to show morals? This can be from all the standard works. Any story. Or do you believe absolutely everything in the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price happened? I'm just curious what people believe.
Popular Post stemelbow Posted February 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 2, 2016 Almost all stories from the scripture carry at least some elements of myth and or exaggeration. So instead of listing them all individually, I'll just say all of them. 8
Boanerges Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 I'm with stemelbow - it would take too much time and space to list all of them, mostly because it is almost all of them (if not all). This includes the BoM, D&C, and PoGP.
JLHPROF Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 Depends how you define "real"? If you mean, did they really happen, I believe all of them did (except the parables of course). If you mean. are the accounts exactly what happened, then I do believe there is some symbolism mixed in amongst the history. For example - Do I believe Adam and Eve were actually the first people on earth in the Garden of Eden. Yes. Do I believe Eve was actually made out of a rib and they were tempted by a talking serpent? No. But in general, yes, I believe they all happened. 2
Gray Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 5 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Almost all stories from the scripture carry at least some elements of myth and or exaggeration. So instead of listing them all individually, I'll just say all of them. Agreed. And whether or not any of them actually happened as written is both unlikely and irrelevant. 2
Boanerges Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gray said: Agreed. And whether or not any of them actually happened as written is both unlikely and irrelevant. Good point. It's why I can still be a believer. Edited February 2, 2016 by Boanerges additional text added 1
The Nehor Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 This exchange from an old TV show sums up my difficulties: Bishop O'Neill: So Father, do you ever have any doubts? Is your faith ever tested? Any trouble you've been having with beliefs or anything like that? Father Dougal: Well you know the way God made us, and he's looking down at us from heaven? Bishop O'Neill: Yeah... Father Dougal: And then his son came down and saved everyone and all that? Bishop O'Neill: Uh huh... Father Dougal: And when we die, we're all going to go to heaven? Bishop O'Neill: Yes. What about it? Father Dougal: Well that's the part I have trouble with! 1
Freedom Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 The following is an interesting blog that discusses why the gospels are not historical biographies. . https://adversusapologetica.wordpress.com/2013/08/18/ancient-historical-writing-compared-to-the-gospels-of-the-new-testament/ This is where the critics falter. it becomes a strawman argument because they are expecting the bible or the book of mormon to be something it is not. The following article makes a pretty good case in my opinion for why we should not read 1 Nephi as a historical text: http://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1404&index=5
Senator Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 I saw a movie recently where in the introduction scene the words were displayed, "This is a true story" Unusual, because story lines are usually just based on a true story. I believe the scriptures are largely based on a true story.
Freedom Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 7 minutes ago, Senator said: I saw a movie recently where in the introduction scene the words were displayed, "This is a true story" Unusual, because story lines are usually just based on a true story. I believe the scriptures are largely based on a true story. I agree. Prophets incorporate true events into their sermons to teach a gospel principle. When this is done, the facts are simply not important. If I wanted to tell you about a new amazing ride a disneyland, I would not mention the fact that the car broke down on the way there, that the day we went on the ride two of my children were sick, or any other number of far more significant events about the trip because the intent of my message is to tell you about the ride. Consequently my account of my trip to disneyland to you would be based on a true story but only remotely so.
Senator Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, Freedom said: I agree. Prophets incorporate true events into their sermons to teach a gospel principle. When this is done, the facts are simply not important. Well, I don't think I would take it that far. We have some fairly recent examples where individuals had garnished their gospel principle teaching with "true events", only to find that the facts were less than truthful. It certainly can bring into question the credibility of the principle being taught when such is the case. 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 2, 2016 Author Posted February 2, 2016 To me the only story that HAS to be literal and real is Jesus atonement and resurrection.
Popular Post The Nehor Posted February 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted February 2, 2016 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: To me the only story that HAS to be literal and real is Jesus atonement and resurrection. I believe almost everything. "I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief." -Joseph Smith I believe God could have a donkey speak, split a sea, multiply food, turn water into good wine, make meal and oil last longer, destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, flood as much of the earth as he likes, take a city into heaven, tie physical strength to hair length, and chase off whole armies. I am not sure if he did all of these things but he could. 6
JLHPROF Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I believe almost everything. "I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief." -Joseph Smith I believe God could have a donkey speak, split a sea, multiply food, turn water into good wine, make meal and oil last longer, destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, flood as much of the earth as he likes, take a city into heaven, tie physical strength to hair length, and chase off whole armies. I am not sure if he did all of these things but he could. ^^ This. Almost exactly. I also believe God is incapable of lying about whether he did these things or not. So if man said God did them, maybe he did. If inspired men said God did them, he probably did. If God (or Christ) said God did them, he did. Edited February 2, 2016 by JLHPROF
Ahab Posted February 2, 2016 Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Some people claim the story of Noah's ark never happened, same with the Tower of Babel. Of all the standard works, what stories don't you believe really happened, and were instead just made up stories to show morals? This can be from all the standard works. Any story. Or do you believe absolutely everything in the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price happened? I'm just curious what people believe. A his-story story, I say a history story, is in fact somebody's depiction of something that really happened as the person saw it or understood it. That's what a history, I say that's what his-story ( or her-story) is and that's what makes a history story different than a story of fiction wherein the person telling the story is intentionally depicting something that he or she is just making up. So is it all history or fiction, you ask? I say it's all history except for the parts where the person telling the story was intentionally just writing fiction to make a particular point. Like, is it fiction or history that a serpent actually spoke to Adam and Eve? I say someone spoke to them and for some reason the person who told that story referred to that someone as a serpent. Edited February 2, 2016 by Ahab 1
Cold Steel Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 The two stories I have problems with are Sampson and Job. I don't have too many problems with the supernatural aspects of religion, but Sampson's stupidity strains any sort of credibility. Add to that the story of the angel, the cruelty to animals, murdering innocent civilians to pay off a bet and falling for the same deception that many times. Even if every word of it was true, it's a horrible story. Job? I don't know, I have problems thinking Satan just wanders about the heavenly realms just hobnobbing with God as though there's no hard feelings at all. It's a good story, though it's kind of hard on Job. I see it as a good moralistic story, great metaphor. As far as Jonah is concerned, I have more questions than doubts. One, forget the whale, or fish; I wonder why the Lord would call a huge, honking, non-Israelite city like Nineveh to repentance? It had a large integrated society, red light district, black market. It wouldn't be like calling a bunch of Jews to repentance. So that's crossed my mind. What do you think? 1
Sleeper Cell Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: I struggle with the talking donkey. I take it you don’t spend much time following our current political campaigns. 2
Sleeper Cell Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 13 minutes ago, Cold Steel said: . As far as Jonah is concerned, I have more questions than doubts. One, forget the whale, or fish; I wonder why the Lord would call a huge, honking, non-Israelite city like Nineveh to repentance? It had a large integrated society, red light district, black market. It wouldn't be like calling a bunch of Jews to repentance. So that's crossed my mind. What do you think? Apparently Jonah had similar concerns.
strappinglad Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Hey, I like the talking donkey. I actually have spoken with a few jack a$$es myself . On the other hand, I will want to see the DVDs that were recorded about some of the events , after I cross the Veil .
ksfisher Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 28 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said: I take it you don’t spend much time following our current political campaigns. Perhaps that was what I was referring to.
Freedom Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 Joseph Smith said that one of the challenges in understanding what the scriptures is saying is that we do not know the question that spawned the answer. I am not too surprised by the Sampson story but I suspect that since we do not know much about their poetic style we are missing the meaning. The audience in the day would have heard the story and automatically picked up on the hyperbole and been able to easily distinguish between fact and fiction because they would have been familiar with the real events, and figures of speech. If If I were to say I was having a real ground hog kind of day you would know I meant that I was experiencing deja vu or perhaps I was having to do the same thing over and over again. Someone from pre-1993 would have no idea what I meant and someone from 2525 would be at loss to grasp my point.
volgadon Posted February 3, 2016 Posted February 3, 2016 I believe that that the books of Job and Jonah are fiction. 1
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