Guest Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 4 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Despite what is written in scripture? But then you also don't believe Joseph was a polygamist despite scripture and history. To clarify, I think Nephi claimed to have killed Laban, but I don't think he did. The story doesn't make sense to me.
thesometimesaint Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Guest said: To clarify, I think Nephi claimed to have killed Laban, but I don't think he did. The story doesn't make sense to me. In what way?
ksfisher Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) 36 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: In what way? Ditto. Why doesn't the story make sense? Edited February 9, 2016 by ksfisher
JAHS Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Actually, a lot of the stories Jesus told were not real. But He did really tell them. Edited February 9, 2016 by JAHS
Tacenda Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: Ditto. Why doesn't the story make sense? It has some holes.
JLHPROF Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, Tacenda said: It has some holes. God commanded Nephi to kill a wicked man and regain possession of the plates. Nephi killed him and regained possession of the plates. Where are the holes?
ksfisher Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 27 minutes ago, Tacenda said: It has some holes. As JLHPROF said, where are the holes?
Popular Post VideoGameJunkie Posted February 9, 2016 Author Popular Post Posted February 9, 2016 42 minutes ago, ksfisher said: As JLHPROF said, where are the holes? In Laban's neck. 5
ksfisher Posted February 9, 2016 Posted February 9, 2016 11 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: In Laban's neck. (I can't believe I just laughed at this.) 3
carbon dioxide Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 On 2/2/2016 at 1:52 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: Some people claim the story of Noah's ark never happened, same with the Tower of Babel. Of all the standard works, what stories don't you believe really happened, and were instead just made up stories to show morals? This can be from all the standard works. Any story. Or do you believe absolutely everything in the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price happened? I'm just curious what people believe. I think the stories as told in the scriptures were real but problems of how we view or interpret them may be off. For example some people take the Noah flood to be a local flood. I think that is crazy. Why build an ark and bring all these animals to it if is just a local flood. Just take a small trip and get yourself and animals out of the way of that local flood. Also the view that the flood wiped out all life on earth except those on the ark does not make sense either for a variety of reasons. I think the truth is somewhere between those two.
Freedom Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I think the stories as told in the scriptures were real but problems of how we view or interpret them may be off. For example some people take the Noah flood to be a local flood. I think that is crazy. Why build an ark and bring all these animals to it if is just a local flood. Just take a small trip and get yourself and animals out of the way of that local flood. Also the view that the flood wiped out all life on earth except those on the ark does not make sense either for a variety of reasons. I think the truth is somewhere between those two. As Joseph Smith wisely said, the problem with the scriptures is we have the answer, but we do not know the question that prompted the question.
bcuzbcuz Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 8 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: I think the stories as told in the scriptures were real but problems of how we view or interpret them may be off. For example some people take the Noah flood to be a local flood. I think that is crazy. Why build an ark and bring all these animals to it if is just a local flood. Just take a small trip and get yourself and animals out of the way of that local flood. Also the view that the flood wiped out all life on earth except those on the ark does not make sense either for a variety of reasons. I think the truth is somewhere between those two. The story of Noah is true, until you apply a little fact-checking common sense. How old was Noah when he started to build the ark? How old was he when he started his family? If the flood covered the whole earth, why aren´t there evidences of whole civilizations being wiped out, such as the Egyptians? Wouldn´t the mummies prior to the flood be all water-logged? If Noah collected all the clean and unclean animals, how come we now have animals endemic only to Australia or South America? A wooden boat with the dimensions stated in the bible would have twisted itself into splinters during the storms on a world wide ocean. ANd the part about the appearance of a rainbow at the end of the flood. Rainbows are a matter of light refraction. Did refraction not start until after the flood? Noah´s story was a story before Noah ever lived. The story was even written down by other civilizations before the Torah came into being. That fact can easily be checked, just google Gilgamesh (but his boat was round). And the tablets that contain the story of Gilgamesh can be viewed, in person, in the Pergamon museum in Berlin. The mathematics of human and animal population expansion can be a problem left for a later date.
thesometimesaint Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 Either it was a miracle by God, or the story got gobbled over the millennia. I prefer the latter. That Noah was a prophet of God, and did what God told him. Build a boat to survive a massive albeit regional flood.
bcuzbcuz Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 20 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Either it was a miracle by God, or the story got gobbled over the millennia. I prefer the latter. That Noah was a prophet of God, and did what God told him. Build a boat to survive a massive albeit regional flood. Do you believe Noah was 600 years old when he began building the arc (give or take a few years, because the flood came when he was 600)? Or that he was 500 years old when he fathered his three sons? Do you believe no rainbows existed prior to the end of the flood?
JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: Do you believe Noah was 600 years old when he began building the arc (give or take a few years, because the flood came when he was 600)? Or that he was 500 years old when he fathered his three sons? Do you believe no rainbows existed prior to the end of the flood? On the age of Noah - yes. On the rainbow - they existed but God chose to make them a symbol of that covenant with Noah. And the day may come when God prevents their formation as a sign too.
thesometimesaint Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said: Do you believe Noah was 600 years old when he began building the arc (give or take a few years, because the flood came when he was 600)? Or that he was 500 years old when he fathered his three sons? Do you believe no rainbows existed prior to the end of the flood? As I said it became gobbled over the millennia.
bcuzbcuz Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, JLHPROF said: On the age of Noah - yes. On the rainbow - they existed but God chose to make them a symbol of that covenant with Noah. And the day may come when God prevents their formation as a sign too. If you drop a zero from the age of Noah at the time of the birth of his three sons (50 years old) and drop a zero from his age at the time of the flood (60) then it all falls within reason. But then it throws all calculations of the age of the earth out the window. But, then that was suspect from the beginning. Glad you bought into the idea of the rainbows though.
JLHPROF Posted February 12, 2016 Posted February 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said: If you drop a zero from the age of Noah at the time of the birth of his three sons (50 years old) and drop a zero from his age at the time of the flood (60) then it all falls within reason. But then it throws all calculations of the age of the earth out the window. But, then that was suspect from the beginning. Glad you bought into the idea of the rainbows though. So Moses had issues with decimals? And the Lord too in D&C 107?
bcuzbcuz Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 On 12 February 2016 at 8:50 PM, JLHPROF said: So Moses had issues with decimals? And the Lord too in D&C 107? Moses didn't write anything. The stories were told and retold for hundreds and hundreds of years before they were ever written down. Joseph Smith didn't know that. I know tortoises can live over a hundred + years and a few humans have lived into their hundreds, but tell me if I've missed it, but do any mammals live over 200 years? Old age is not merely numbers. The human body deteriorates, functions slow down and quit and some cells simply fail to regenerate with age. If you have any evidence of people living into their four hundreds, or five hundreds, or nine hundreds, please share. Joseph Smith also talks of Adam-onthe-Amen in D&C 107. Do you know of any evidence that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, thus being the center and starting point for all human and animal populations?
thesometimesaint Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 The whole story can be dismissed as a series of supernatural miracles. There is no way to contradict such an argument. However, one must wonder about a God who reportedly does one thing and then arranges every bit of evidence to make it look like something else happened. It's entirely possible that creation occurred 6000 years ago or even last Thursday, and that God subsequently erased all the evidence, including our memories of it. But even if such stories are true, what's the point?
Monster Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 I believe in things that have substantial evidence to support them. This does not mean I discount any information or whether God exists but humanity has spent to much time chasing things that are unprovable. I t think we are better served focusing on things that propel us forward and not things that hold us back. People have been arguing over the validity of scriptural accounts for 1000 years and probably will be for some time to come. But it accomplishes little. It does not help develop a new energy source, or cure any disease, or even make the majority of people happy. The stories mostly serve as justification for people to behave a certain way. Sometimes it is good sometimes it is bad. So I stick with things that can be proven, at least to a reliable degree. Focusing on tangible things is what has pushed us forward as a civilization. I am sure if God needs me to do something or behave a certain way, or even give up everything and worship him he knows where I am and can come tell me. I would listen and most likely do what I was asked. In the meantime I won't spend energy speculating on stories that may be suspect.
thesometimesaint Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 38 minutes ago, Monster said: I believe in things that have substantial evidence to support them. This does not mean I discount any information or whether God exists but humanity has spent to much time chasing things that are unprovable. I t think we are better served focusing on things that propel us forward and not things that hold us back. People have been arguing over the validity of scriptural accounts for 1000 years and probably will be for some time to come. But it accomplishes little. It does not help develop a new energy source, or cure any disease, or even make the majority of people happy. The stories mostly serve as justification for people to behave a certain way. Sometimes it is good sometimes it is bad. So I stick with things that can be proven, at least to a reliable degree. Focusing on tangible things is what has pushed us forward as a civilization. I am sure if God needs me to do something or behave a certain way, or even give up everything and worship him he knows where I am and can come tell me. I would listen and most likely do what I was asked. In the meantime I won't spend energy speculating on stories that may be suspect. Prove to me your mother loves you.
Monster Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Prove to me your mother loves you. Not really a clever question like you think it is. I can easily prove my mother loves me or at least she did when she was alive. She feed me, she clothed me. She held me tight as a child when I was hurt. She worried about me and stayed up late to greet me when I was out late as a teenager. These things are tangible evidence of what we define as love. She was there. I could touch here. I could her her voice when ever I needed it. By all rational observations my mother loved me. Edited February 14, 2016 by Monster 1
thesometimesaint Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, Monster said: Not really a clever question like you think it is. I can easily prove my mother loves me or at least she did when she was alive. She feed me, she clothed me. She held me tight as a child when I was hurt. She worried about me and stayed up late to greet me when I was out late as a teenager. These things are tangible evidence of what we define as love. She was there. I could touch here. I could her her voice when ever I needed it. By all rational observations my mother loved me. Not rational at all. You didn't prove she felt anything. SEE http://users.rcn.com/napier.interport/cwm/experim.html
bcuzbcuz Posted February 14, 2016 Posted February 14, 2016 5 hours ago, Monster said: I believe in things that have substantial evidence to support them. This does not mean I discount any information or whether God exists but humanity has spent to much time chasing things that are unprovable. I t think we are better served focusing on things that propel us forward and not things that hold us back. People have been arguing over the validity of scriptural accounts for 1000 years and probably will be for some time to come. But it accomplishes little. It does not help develop a new energy source, or cure any disease, or even make the majority of people happy. The stories mostly serve as justification for people to behave a certain way. Sometimes it is good sometimes it is bad. So I stick with things that can be proven, at least to a reliable degree. Focusing on tangible things is what has pushed us forward as a civilization. I am sure if God needs me to do something or behave a certain way, or even give up everything and worship him he knows where I am and can come tell me. I would listen and most likely do what I was asked. In the meantime I won't spend energy speculating on stories that may be suspect. Admirable, but focusing only on the present and looking forward is neglecting the purpose and need of being reflective or looking in the rear view mirror. Agreed, it is sometimes of value to push certain questions and worries onto a back burner. It is possible to to partition off troubling thoughts, to have completely conflicting ideas active at the same time, but one or the other ideas must be ignored or blinders in place to purposely avoid using rational thought to deal with them.
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