Are Only Mormon Families Important?

[KevinG]

Where LDS kids are in the majority they can sometimes be a little insensitive and cruel to their non-LDS friends. My own wife was a convert at 19. She grew up in Utah and when younger remembers hearing fellow classmates tell her that she was going to hell if she didn't join the church. 

 

The idiocy of school students knows no bounds.  That is reflected in almost any majority/minority population dynamic.  My boys heard they were "gay" for not dating before 16.  My girls were accused of being teases.  They all heard they were going to hell and worshiping Satan from the overzealous Baptist kids.  They were almost kicked out of the ecumenical prayer group until their wiser, kinder friends stuck up for them.

 

But in my case my wife and I were consigned to hell by our 20-something friends.  One of them who attended the Vineyard church down the street told her "you are so nice, its too bad you are Mormon."  to which my wife replied "that's kind of like saying your are nice too bad you are black."  The friend got the hint and avoided religious debate afterward.

 

Instead of using it as a grievance and generalized to all Christians we just chalked it up to the fact that they received Ed Decker inspired Sunday School materials, and corrected little inaccuracies where they popped up.  Mostly by living our values and being a good example.

 

Outside the odd copy of The Great Apostasy, and some polemics by the General Authorities in the 19th century you would be hard put to find such inflammatory nonsense published by the church about other groups.  "Do Baptists Only Care about Baptist Families" is not something you would see published by a church authority.

[Robert F. Smith]

Where LDS kids are in the majority they can sometimes be a little insensitive and cruel to their non-LDS friends. My own wife was a convert at 19. She grew up in Utah and when younger remembers hearing fellow classmates tell her that she was going to hell if she didn't join the church. 

Yeh, and back in the 1940s and 50s, Jewish kids used to get beat up for being "Christ-killers" while on their way to school.  Kids can be very cruel.

[JAHS]

The idiocy of school students knows no bounds.  That is reflected in almost any majority/minority population dynamic.  My boys heard they were "gay" for not dating before 16.  My girls were accused of being teases.  They all heard they were going to hell and worshiping Satan from the overzealous Baptist kids.  They were almost kicked out of the ecumenical prayer group until their wiser, kinder friends stuck up for them.

 

But in my case my wife and I were consigned to hell by our 20-something friends.  One of them who attended the Vineyard church down the street told her "you are so nice, its too bad you are Mormon."  to which my wife replied "that's kind of like saying your are nice too bad you are black."  The friend got the hint and avoided religious debate afterward.

 

Instead of using it as a grievance and generalized to all Christians we just chalked it up to the fact that they received Ed Decker inspired Sunday School materials, and corrected little inaccuracies where they popped up.  Mostly by living our values and being a good example.

 

Outside the odd copy of The Great Apostasy, and some polemics by the General Authorities in the 19th century you would be hard put to find such inflammatory nonsense published by the church about other groups.  "Do Baptists Only Care about Baptist Families" is not something you would see published by a church authority.

However when they are not in the majority, like where I in live in California, they are a little more accepting of kids with different religions and are not as likely to be as disrespectful. I have seen them bring many of their friends into the church.  

[KevinG]

A friend of mine taught me long ago that Mormons are Like Manure.

 

If you spread them around the face of the earth they grow marvelous things.

 

But if you pile them in one place they just begin to stink.

 

(I think this is somewhat true of any homogeneous group when it comes to social interactions.)

[HappyJackWagon]

A friend of mine taught me long ago that Mormons are Like Manure.

 

If you spread them around the face of the earth they grow marvelous things.

 

But if you pile them in one place they just begin to stink.

 

(I think this is somewhat true of any homogeneous group when it comes to social interactions.)

That's pretty good!

[gopher]

I wish more LDS families would raise their families outside the predominantly LDS communities.  During high school, there were many non-LDS kids that would attend church dances, play basketball and even attend church and early morning seminary with us.  Most of their parents were thrilled to have their children engaging in wholesome activities (ok, maybe church basketball isn't always wholesome).  But I would like to think that we were able to convince our non-LDS friends that you can have standards and still have fun.

 

I live outside DC, so most of the grownups around here are beyond hope, but there is still hope for the children! 

[JAHS]

I wish more LDS families would raise their families outside the predominantly LDS communities.  During high school, there were many non-LDS kids that would attend church dances, play basketball and even attend church and early morning seminary with us.  Most of their parents were thrilled to have their children engaging in wholesome activities (ok, maybe church basketball isn't always wholesome).  But I would like to think that we were able to convince our non-LDS friends that you can have standards and still have fun.

 

I live outside DC, so most of the grownups around here are beyond hope, but there is still hope for the children! 

Agree with this. The only problem we see here in California is sometimes the local pastors of the other churches warning their kids to stay away from the evil cult.

[rockpond]

deleted to avoid derailing the thread

Edited November 20, 2015 by rockpond

[Russell C McGregor]

Deleted.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Russell C McGregor

[JAHS]

What you've written and linked to here is, for me, just one more piece of the puzzle that points to this policy being all about avoiding tort lawsuits for alienation.  IMO, it's the only explanation that covers everything.

Not sure how you are getting that. I didn't want this thread to be about "this policy". 

[rockpond]

Not sure how you are getting that. I didn't want this thread to be about "this policy". 

 

I deleted my post because I don't like derailing threads.  But I didn't seem to be the only one thinking that's where you were headed with your OP.

[JAHS]

I deleted my post because I don't like derailing threads.  

OK. Thanks.  

[Jeanne]

A week and a half ago, I mentioned that this policy would affect not children just inside church walls..but these kids..LDS and non..policy or not...are going to find it very difficult outside church wa lls..They tease and it hurts both sides.  Words don't get erased and I fear it will put bullying on another level.  I am not just talking about LDS kids..all kids.  They listen to what adults say and then become extremely righteous about how they interpret these things and then follow a leader.  I was aked if I have ever seen a mormon kid beat up a non-mormon..I said no..but I have seen LDS kids beat up LDS kids..I guess it is just human nature.  We have all been probably on both sides of an argument when growing up.

 

Here is a dumb thing that caused total but real trouble in my elementary school.  Two towns shared the school..two different wards..and we fought like crap because of the difference in sacramental cups in church..St.John had paper..Clover had plastic..but it got evil..go figure.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Jeanne

[JAHS]

A week and a half ago, I mentioned that this policy would affect not children just inside church walls..but these kids..LDS and non..policy or not...are going to find it very difficult outside church walls..They tease and it hurts..

This thread is not about "the policy"  

I want to get peoples' opinion if the Reverend's complaint in the SLT letter is valid and if so what can we do to assure people we are not trying to break up families by trying to convert their children.  

[Jeanne]

This thread is not about "the policy"  

I want to get peoples' opinion if the Reverend's complaint in the SLT letter is valid and if so what can we do to assure people we are not trying to break up families by trying to convert their children.  

Sorry,  I get "E: for effort.

[JLHPROF]

Family is important, but it is not more important than following God (whatever a person feels following God entails).  Christ teaches us that.

 

This, exactly.

And sometimes people take this truth to extremes in their desires to help others to follow God instead of waiting for them to do so of their own accord.

[Yirgacheffe]

 

Sorry that I bring up something that was posted in the Tribune but the letter writer brings up an interesting point. In it the Rev. Dr. John E. Day says:

 

"Well-meaning friends who are members of the LDS Church tried to convert me. When I was a child and a young adult, they tried to convert me away from my church and my family's church with no thought of what it would do to our family.

 From the time she (his daughter) was 8 years old, her friends and their families tried to convert her away from her church and her family's church with no thought to what it would do to our family. Mormon friends told her their father was an "agent of Satan." I suppose now her friends are glad they did not convert her, for now she would no longer be welcome (daughter is in a gay marriage now).

The LDS Church is known for strong family values, yet it had no problem trying to split my family apart. "

 

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3191391-155/letter-are-only-mormon-families-important

 

I know what Jesus said about hating father and mother (Luke 14: 26) to follow him. But how can we say we support the family unit when we share the gospel with our friends, hoping they will leave the religion of their parents, thus causing contention within their family?

 

 

Edited to add: This NOT about the new church policy.

 

Why do LDS members try to convert other peoples children,  if someone tried doing this to my kids I'd put an end to their going to that home. 

[Yirgacheffe]

Minors cannot be baptized without parents' consent.  You didn't know that?

That doesn't mean that they can't be proselytized and converted. 

[JAHS]

Why do LDS members try to convert other peoples children,  if someone tried doing this to my kids I'd put an end to their going to that home. 

It doesn't always start as a "trying to convert" them deal. It can quite innocently start, when the kids become friends (especially boy + girl friend) with each other at school; the friendships develop; and somewhere along the line the friend invites them to a few church functions or sunday meeting. 

[Calm]

When I was a teen, I talked to my best friend about my beliefs just like I talk to people here.  I was as interested in hearing about hers as I was in sharing.  She wasn't terribly interested in sharing.  When she asked to see the missionaries after a few years of our friendship, I was shocked. It had never occurred to me she would be interested.  Her parents really didn't appreciate it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Calm

[Yirgacheffe]

It doesn't always start as a "trying to convert" them deal. It can quite innocently start, when the kids become friends (especially boy + girl friend) with each other at school; the friendships develop; and somewhere along the line the friend invites them to a few church functions or sunday meeting. 

"From the time she (his daughter) was 8 years old, her friends and their families"

 

The gentleman in the OP's quote is not talking simply about children talking about their faith he is talking about adults trying to convert other peoples children.   I don't think I can possibly convey how outrageously deplorable I find this kind of usurpation of another families parental authority and their right to raise their own children in the faith of their choice.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Yirgacheffe

[filovirus]

Most churches proselytize to some extent. Nothing wrong with it. Growing up in So Cal I attended youth groups with my friends many times, and was even invited to attend their Sunday worship a few times. Their intentions were always good and I feel they were genially interested in my salvation. So yeah, proselytizing goes both ways.

I think tactics are a little different. I always got the sense they were trying to save me from hell. I feel we don't try to save from hell (different understandings of what hell is) but try to offer an enhanced version of heaven. It may not sound like much, but it is a huge difference.

Does a child/teen converting to Mormonism disrupt families? Most times no, because parental permission is needed. Can it? Of course. I wish it weren't the case. Rarely do I think it causes irreparable strain on a relationship.

[Yirgacheffe]

Most churches proselytize to some extent. Nothing wrong with it. Growing up in So Cal I attended youth groups with my friends many times, and was even invited to attend their Sunday worship a few times. Their intentions were always good and I feel they were genially interested in my salvation. So yeah, proselytizing goes both ways.

I think tactics are a little different. I always got the sense they were trying to save me from hell. I feel we don't try to save from hell (different understandings of what hell is) but try to offer an enhanced version of heaven. It may not sound like much, but it is a huge difference.

Does a child/teen converting to Mormonism disrupt families? Most times no, because parental permission is needed. Can it? Of course. I wish it weren't the case. Rarely do I think it causes irreparable strain on a relationship.

No children do not need permission to CONVERT, you know that, they need permission to be baptized and join.

[JAHS]

"From the time she (his daughter) was 8 years old, her friends and their families"

 

The gentleman in the OP's quote is not talking simply about children talking about their faith he is talking about adults trying to convert other peoples children.   I don't think I can possibly convey how outrageously deplorable I find this kind of usurpation of another families parental authority and their right to raise their own children in the faith of their choice.

Well then, a good parent like you would nip it in the bud and let them know you won't allow your children to be associated with the church, right?

I have never allowed any other adult to usurp my authority over my children either. Perhaps the person in the OP should have been paying more attention to what his kids were doing.

[filovirus]

No children do not need permission to CONVERT, you know that, they need permission to be baptized and join.

Yes, you are right. A person may accept the Gospel before they reach adulthood. But for all intents and purposes, that child/teen is still under the direction of a guardian (usually parent). The church will never undermine the parent by effectuating a formal ordinance without consent. According to The Family: A Proclamation to the World, parents are still to preside in the home. That Proclamation is to the world, and not just members of the church.

I personally believe truth should be proclaimed. That was a charge from Christ himself (Matthew 28:19-20). At the same time, if it causes unnessecary friction in a household, we need to respect the wishes of the parent until the child/teen comes of age. They are to preside in their homes, and not the church.