Are Families Really Important?

[USU78]

We've heard the sneering dismissal of folks with families as useless "breeders."

An astonishing, yet not all that recent development.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, poptart said:

Cool, i'd like to see those with money go first.

Unlikely.

[poptart]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Unlikely.

Then bottom line, it's not happening.  I'm going to enjoy watching the collapse.  Real irony is that's how Sodom and Gomorah happened, wonder if I wear protective eyewhere if I can watch it all happen without being turned into a pillar of salt.

[poptart]

14 minutes ago, USU78 said:

We've heard the sneering dismissal of folks with families as useless "breeders."

An astonishing, yet not all that recent development.

Great solution to that problem, lets see families go back to traditional values and start not only contributing to society, lets see them raise model children again vs. the walking mass of mental problems they tend to make now.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, poptart said:

Then bottom line, it's not happening.  I'm going to enjoy watching the collapse.  Real irony is that's how Sodom and Gomorah happened, wonder if I wear protective eyewhere if I can watch it all happen without being turned into a pillar of salt.

Zion will not be built by the princes and corporate giants of the Earth.

7 minutes ago, poptart said:

Great solution to that problem, lets see families go back to traditional values and start not only contributing to society, lets see them raise model children again vs. the walking mass of mental problems they tend to make now.

This is not a family problem. It is a societal one. We worship the economy and its needs must be met at all costs. The human collateral damage and those whose dignity and happiness must be sacrificed on its altars to satiate Molech are just the price we must pay.

[USU78]

23 minutes ago, poptart said:

Great solution to that problem, lets see families go back to traditional values and start not only contributing to society, lets see them raise model children again vs. the walking mass of mental problems they tend to make now.

There's a chicken/egg issue there, I'm thinking.

[poptart]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Zion will not be built by the princes and corporate giants of the Earth.

This is not a family problem. It is a societal one. We worship the economy and its needs must be met at all costs. The human collateral damage and those whose dignity and happiness must be sacrificed on its altars to satiate Molech are just the price we must pay.

I still say if families stood their ground and said no to all this, it would stop, fast.  That's just me.  I like the idea of people going back to their farming roots and producing more of their own food, it's something i'm slowly working on myself, being as free from the system as possible.

3 minutes ago, USU78 said:

There's a chicken/egg issue there, I'm thinking.

Mind expanding on that a bit more?

 

[Kenngo1969]

47 minutes ago, USU78 said:

We've heard the sneering dismissal of folks with families as useless "breeders."

An astonishing, yet not all that recent development.

Even if folks believe they simply hatched into being, someone had to lay the egg!  

[The Nehor]

55 minutes ago, poptart said:

I still say if families stood their ground and said no to all this, it would stop, fast.  That's just me.  I like the idea of people going back to their farming roots and producing more of their own food, it's something i'm slowly working on myself, being as free from the system as possible.

Returning to an agrarian economy is not really an option though growing some of your own food, raising animals, and the like are all good for the soul.

It is difficult to reject the system. It is rapacious and does not like dissent.

[poptart]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Returning to an agrarian economy is not really an option though growing some of your own food, raising animals, and the like are all good for the soul.

It is difficult to reject the system. It is rapacious and does not like dissent.

Oh no, didn't mean we should all be farmers again, just getting off the system a bit and going back to nature. I agree, I finally deleted my facebook and purged all my social media.  A few were resentful of me for doing so, how dare I unplug myself from the matrix.  Have to say, my stress level has gone down so much, loving it.

 

[USU78]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

Mind expanding on that a bit more?

Did familial decline cause or result from contemptuous treatment at the hands of the so-called enlightened sneerers?

[poptart]

8 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Did familial decline cause or result from contemptuous treatment at the hands of the so-called enlightened sneerers?

Maybe, that or the cost of raising children is rediculous esp. if you don't have a good familial support network. 

[USU78]

1 minute ago, poptart said:

Maybe, that or the cost of raising children is rediculous esp. if you don't have a good familial support network. 

Twas ever thus. Raising the next generation of humanity is supposed to require sacrifices.

Bread and sugar instead of bread and jam.

[poptart]

Just now, USU78 said:

Twas ever thus. Raising the next generation of humanity is supposed to require sacrifices.

Bread and sugar instead of bread and jam.

It is, thing is it was also your safety net.  Your parents raised you, taught you a trade, you married someone else nearby and strengthened your own family ties.  You had children, your parents watched them while you worked which is awesome I think.  They raised you to be a successful contributing member of society, they know a few things you don't.  Also, that's their genetic legacy, of course they have an interest in seeing it grow up.  Long after they've passed you and your spouse retire and the children you and your parents helped raise repeat the cycle.  It's a great system, everyone's looked out for.  Wealth and knowledge is passed on and as the generations pass your family becomes more wealthy, successful and hopefully happier.  Why anyone in the right mind would have chosen to turn their back on what was probably one of the best systems humanity thought up is beyond me, can't cure stupid.

[Jeanne]

Families are important up and unto the individual is important.  Unconditional love creates a family.  Does that make sense??

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, poptart said:

Oh no, didn't mean we should all be farmers again, just getting off the system a bit and going back to nature. I agree, I finally deleted my facebook and purged all my social media.  A few were resentful of me for doing so, how dare I unplug myself from the matrix.  Have to say, my stress level has gone down so much, loving it.

 

Yeah, I have done this to a lesser degree. I have a Facebook account but I only use it as a reminder for events. I have an Instagram so I can follow my extended family’s pictures, and have a chat group for my siblings and their spouses and my parents which we use to update each other. I have disconnected from the larger social media garbage.

Going back to nature sounds idyllic but I am not convinced it is. As much as modern society messed me up I do not think being a dirt farmer would have been better for me. It is interesting when you look at history that interest in the beauty of nature mostly started up once urban society showed up. Before that good land was arable land or land you could gather sustenance from. It is a romantic image we built up about it, a kind of illusion. I am not saying this perception is a bad thing as long as you recognize its limitations. I spent the last week on Lake Powell and I loved paddle boarding through the canyons and observing the wildlife and falling off when a houseboat drove by and the waves took me out but I also loved the air conditioning back at the houseboat I was staying on and the speed thrills of being pulled around by a fast boat via a rope. I am paying for the last item now. I seem to think I am still a teenager when I am out there and now the pain of being 40 and doing those things is catching up to me. Still worth it but makes the resurrection seem much more important.  

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

Families are important up and unto the individual is important.  Unconditional love creates a family.  Does that make sense??

While I am all for and appreciate and experience unconditional love I am also very wary of the way we laud it. Too often it is less love and more license and I am especially wary of those who demand it from their family, mostly because those who demand it are the kind of people who will never experience love any other way because they can never merit it. Usually families that talk up family closeness and loyalty are dysfunctional. Those who are close and loyal do not need to make a fuss about it. Then again I was fortunate to come from a strong family and probably received more then I gave to it so I might be spoiled.

Unconditional love’s main virtue is when given from parent to child because children are starting out on their journey into the realms of right and wrong and need forgiveness. Unconditional love from spouse to spouse or adult to adult too often is a code word for codependency or abuse.

Better then unconditional love is charity. There is no pretense of pretending others (or ourselves) are better then they are and you can still love and seek the welfare of others without being mired in messed up relationship dynamics.

[poptart]

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I have done this to a lesser degree. I have a Facebook account but I only use it as a reminder for events. I have an Instagram so I can follow my extended family’s pictures, and have a chat group for my siblings and their spouses and my parents which we use to update each other. I have disconnected from the larger social media garbage.

Going back to nature sounds idyllic but I am not convinced it is. As much as modern society messed me up I do not think being a dirt farmer would have been better for me. It is interesting when you look at history that interest in the beauty of nature mostly started up once urban society showed up. Before that good land was arable land or land you could gather sustenance from. It is a romantic image we built up about it, a kind of illusion. I am not saying this perception is a bad thing as long as you recognize its limitations. I spent the last week on Lake Powell and I loved paddle boarding through the canyons and observing the wildlife and falling off when a houseboat drove by and the waves took me out but I also loved the air conditioning back at the houseboat I was staying on and the speed thrills of being pulled around by a fast boat via a rope. I am paying for the last item now. I seem to think I am still a teenager when I am out there and now the pain of being 40 and doing those things is catching up to me. Still worth it but makes the resurrection seem much more important.  

The family i'm close to does little to none of that so not really worried. 

I agree, it is idyllic, my plan is to just have a few crops and some animals.  Considering i'm in nursing now that would not be a wise thing, I'll be around tech and research till I die.  Toys are nice, I love playing with my compound bow and backpacking in the mountains.  Want even nicer toys once i'm a bit more settled.  I have every intention of being the ultimate selfish bachelor, I have no shame lol

 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, poptart said:

The family i'm close to does little to none of that so not really worried. 

I agree, it is idyllic, my plan is to just have a few crops and some animals.  Considering i'm in nursing now that would not be a wise thing, I'll be around tech and research till I die.  Toys are nice, I love playing with my compound bow and backpacking in the mountains.  Want even nicer toys once i'm a bit more settled.  I have every intention of being the ultimate selfish bachelor, I have no shame lol

Don’t be selfish. Just have fun. I am probably on a similar path but I try to give back to stay connected. One of my great worries is how naturally selfish my life is. I am not responsible for anyone in a familial sense though I do help my siblings and parents. It is easy to see my career and my money as MINE to spend to gratify me! While technically true it is not a healthy perspective.

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Don’t be selfish. Just have fun. I am probably on a similar path but I try to give back to stay connected. One of my great worries is how naturally selfish my life is. I am not responsible for anyone in a familial sense though I do help my siblings and parents. It is easy to see my career and my money as MINE to spend to gratify me! While technically true it is not a healthy perspective.

Nah, for once in my life I'm going to be selfish.  Had a bad enough one, had to fight family for 6 years and had pretty much everyone I knew turn their back on me.  Even Christians, LDS to turned their backs on me in my time of need when I was almost on the streets and having to live with a bunch of druggies.  Just once I want to be as selfish as I can be.  Won't make a lifetime habit of it but still, it's going to happen.

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, poptart said:

Nah, for once in my life I'm going to be selfish.  Had a bad enough one, had to fight family for 6 years and had pretty much everyone I knew turn their back on me.  Even Christians, LDS to turned their backs on me in my time of need when I was almost on the streets and having to live with a bunch of druggies.  Just once I want to be as selfish as I can be.  Won't make a lifetime habit of it but still, it's going to happen.

I don’t mean to be offensive but your justification for being selfish is that others should have been less selfish. If the world is mad that is no reason to join in.

You can go backpacking and find happiness without becoming self absorbed.  

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I agree with this, except you ended the sentence with a preposition.  C'mon, Lloyd!  You're better than this!

(Sorry.   Couldn't resist! )

This is the sort of nonsense up with which I shall not put. 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is the sort of nonsense up with which I shall not put. 

 

[Bernard Gui]

18 hours ago, poptart said:

Oh no, didn't mean we should all be farmers again, just getting off the system a bit and going back to nature. I agree, I finally deleted my facebook and purged all my social media.  A few were resentful of me for doing so, how dare I unplug myself from the matrix.  Have to say, my stress level has gone down so much, loving it.

 

The effects of screens on families and individuals haven’t been brought up until now. I think their contribution to our dysfunction is vastly underestimated. 

[poptart]

28 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The effects of screens on families and individuals haven’t been brought up until now. I think their contribution to our dysfunction is vastly underestimated. 

No love lost there, said family and friends aren't exactly those I would depend on.  Honestly, said relatives are more of a liability and considering they grew up in the midwest and were fed on entitlement and their father spoiling them rotten could care less.  Besides, considering the way things are going here stateside I prefer to keep my personal life as private as possible, anymore even families here will slit each others throats for short term gain.  Is what it is.