Elder Ballard Speaks At World Congress Of Families Conference

[Sky]

"We demonstrate our best humanity when we show love and kindness to all of God's children. We demonstrate our discipleship when we refuse strident tones, when we refuse derisive labels."   - M. Russell Ballard  

 

 

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3107076-155/mormon-apostle-touts-traditional-marriage-as

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865640015/LDS-doctrine-completely-linked-to-traditional-family-Elder-M-Russell-Ballard-tells-World.html

 

 

 

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

Just as long as God's female children wear lipstick.

[ksfisher]

Just as long as God's female children wear lipstick.

 

???

[Calm]

Elder Ballard spoke to a YSA group a few days ago.  He told the young men open their eyes and look around them and told the young women to wear lipstick and to stop looking like men (more or less).

 

Off topic to this thread so not going to comment.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Calm

[Buckeye]

???

 

See here: http://www.wheatandtares.org/19366/women-exist-barely/

 

I'd prefer to give Elder Ballard the same kindness he called for today and assume this was just a misplaced joke. I've certainly stuck my foot in my mouth before, as have many people smarter and better than me.

[rockpond]

In the DN article, Elder Ballard is quoted as saying:  "Mormons "should be the most loving, the kindest and the most tolerant because of that doctrine.""

 

But he is also quoted as saying:  "Mormons take a strong position on the family and are "dedicated to nurturing, protecting, and promoting traditional families"" (emphasis mine).

 

If we should be the most loving, kindest, tolerant people did he really need to qualify his statement with the word "traditional"?

 

The DN article also said:

 

He gave an example of inflexibility, when a school district in 2006 refused to provide parents with advance warning when a teacher read a story about two princes falling in love.

 

"If those who oppose us are genuine in their commitment to the values of diversity and equality, we should be able to work together to find compassion and peace," he said. "Forcing the beliefs of one onto another, as was done with the children being read material contrary to their parents’ wishes, diminishes diversity and skews the scales of equality. By engaging in compromise and extending love to all God’s children, who are our brothers and sisters, we can create a peaceful, diverse tapestry of ideals and beliefs."

 

I'm curious... Is the school district required to provide parents with advance warning when a teacher reads a story about a prince and a princess falling in love?  Or does such a "commitment to the values of diversity and equality" only need to flow one direction?

[Sky]

Just as long as God's female children wear lipstick.

 

I agree that it wasn't his best moment, and perhaps he should have chose other words, but I'm going to forgive him.  

[CV75]

If we should be the most loving, kindest, tolerant people did he really need to qualify his statement with the word "traditional"?

You say that as if using the word “traditional” is antithetical to showing love and kindness to all of God's children. As if it sanctions strident tones and derisive labels. Do you use the word that way?

 

I'm curious... Is the school district required to provide parents with advance warning when a teacher reads a story about a prince and a princess falling in love?  Or does such a "commitment to the values of diversity and equality" only need to flow one direction?

It’s a community with its own mores and traditions developed over time, which can be honored without refusing love and kindness or sanctioning strident tones and derisive labels toward those who disagree. Are you suggesting your community's mores should be adopted instead?

[Sky]

 

In the DN article, Elder Ballard is quoted as saying:  "Mormons "should be the most loving, the kindest and the most tolerant because of that doctrine.""

 

But he is also quoted as saying:  "Mormons take a strong position on the family and are "dedicated to nurturing, protecting, and promoting traditional families"" (emphasis mine).

 

If we should be the most loving, kindest, tolerant people did he really need to qualify his statement with the word "traditional"?

 

The DN article also said:

 

He gave an example of inflexibility, when a school district in 2006 refused to provide parents with advance warning when a teacher read a story about two princes falling in love.

 

"If those who oppose us are genuine in their commitment to the values of diversity and equality, we should be able to work together to find compassion and peace," he said. "Forcing the beliefs of one onto another, as was done with the children being read material contrary to their parents’ wishes, diminishes diversity and skews the scales of equality. By engaging in compromise and extending love to all God’s children, who are our brothers and sisters, we can create a peaceful, diverse tapestry of ideals and beliefs."

 

I'm curious... Is the school district required to provide parents with advance warning when a teacher reads a story about a prince and a princess falling in love?  Or does such a "commitment to the values of diversity and equality" only need to flow one direction?

 

 

To be fair, maybe a warning should be given to all parents - whether the book is about a prince/prince, princes/princes, or prince/princes falling in love.  

 

Maybe there are some gay parents out there that could be offended about a prince and princess falling in love because it reinforces hetero-normaty to their kids and sends the message that their family is invalid?     

[rockpond]

You say that as if using the word “traditional” is antithetical to showing love and kindness to all of God's children. As if it sanctions strident tones and derisive labels. Do you use the word that way?

 

It’s a community with its own mores and traditions developed over time, which can be honored without refusing love and kindness or sanctioning strident tones and derisive labels toward those who disagree. Are you suggesting your community's mores should be adopted instead?

 

In LDS vernacular, "traditional" means man-woman marriage & family.  Do you disagree?  When stating that we nurture families, why would he need to qualify it?  Shouldn't we nurture all families?

 

The school district he cites is made up of people with varying mores and traditions.  I'm asking, if the school should provide parental notice that they are going to read a book about two princes, why shouldn't they also be expected to provide parental notice when reading a book about a prince and a princess?  If we're honoring diversity why does one set of mores and traditions get privileged over the other?

[rockpond]

To be fair, maybe a warning should be given to all parents - whether the book is about a prince/prince, princes/princes, or prince/princes falling in love.  

 

Maybe there are some gay parents out there that could be offended about a prince and princess falling in love because it reinforces hetero-normaty to their kids and sends the message that their family is invalid?     

 

Exactly.  My daughter's elementary school class includes a girl who is being raised by two mothers.

[ksfisher]

In LDS vernacular, "traditional" means man-woman marriage & family.  Do you disagree?  When stating that we nurture families, why would he need to qualify it?  Shouldn't we nurture all families?

 

The school district he cites is made up of people with varying mores and traditions.  I'm asking, if the school should provide parental notice that they are going to read a book about two princes, why shouldn't they also be expected to provide parental notice when reading a book about a prince and a princess?  If we're honoring diversity why does one set of mores and traditions get privileged over the other?

 

It would seem then that the school would need to notify parents which ethnic groups the story dealt with so that the children could be prepared if their group wasn't included.  And heaven forbid that the prince/princess/whatever were to get married and the person performing the marriage looked in any way like they represented a particular religion or belief in some god.

[rockpond]

It would seem then that the school would need to notify parents which ethnic groups the story dealt with so that the children could be prepared if their group wasn't included.  And heaven forbid that the prince/princess/whatever were to get married and the person performing the marriage looked in any way like they represented a particular religion or belief in some god.

 

Exactly... that's why I think that a demand to notify parents when reading a story about two princes falling in love doesn't demonstrate a commitment to diversity and equality... it only serves to strangle it.

[ksfisher]

Exactly.  My daughter's elementary school class includes a girl who is being raised by two mothers.

 

It sounds like it would be best if mothers and fathers weren't mentioned in school any more either.

[Scott Lloyd]

I agree that it wasn't his best moment, and perhaps he should have chose other words, but I'm going to forgive him.  

What's to forgive? It strikes me as sound advice, considering the audience.

[rockpond]

It sounds like it would be best if mothers and fathers weren't mentioned in school any more either.

 

Obviously that isn't going to happen.  I'm just highlighting the problem with demanding parental notification for things you happen to disagree with.

[ksfisher]

Obviously that isn't going to happen.  I'm just highlighting the problem with demanding parental notification for things you happen to disagree with.

 

And I guess I'm just worried about the world in which my children will be raising theirs (and I could probably use a nap about now).

[Calm]

What's to forgive? It strikes me as sound advice, considering the audience.

Some of us can't wear lipstick....it is that hard (I am one of them, never have been able to from the time I first tried as a teen) and to be told that means we look more like men....not exactly helpful when we already feel different.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Calm

[Teancum]

What's to forgive? It strikes me as sound advice, considering the audience.

 

Great.... tell the women to put on lipstick and tell the men to lose some weight... oh wait.... he only commented on the female appearance.....

[CV75]

In LDS vernacular, "traditional" means man-woman marriage & family.  Do you disagree?  When stating that we nurture families, why would he need to qualify it?  Shouldn't we nurture all families?

 

The school district he cites is made up of people with varying mores and traditions.  I'm asking, if the school should provide parental notice that they are going to read a book about two princes, why shouldn't they also be expected to provide parental notice when reading a book about a prince and a princess?  If we're honoring diversity why does one set of mores and traditions get privileged over the other?

LDS vernacular? OK...

 

Still, the community is the net give and take of its members. LDS are taught to nurture traditional families and individuals who live without one, as long as such individuals are willing to be nurtured by LDS.

 

How does being “the most loving, the kindest and the most tolerant” translate into “honor diversity!” all of a sudden? LOL

 

And you haven’t answered my other questions: How is using the word “traditional” antithetical to showing love and kindness to all of God's children or discouraging the use of strident tones and derisive labels? Do you use the word that way?

 

I would expect any school district to accommodate its community’s norm, whether I agree with it or not.

[Daniel2]

I would expect any school district to accommodate its community’s norm, whether I agree with it or not.

Really...?

So, you disagree with the Supreme Court ruling outlawing many southern states ' communities' norm of constitiutionally-prohibited racial discrimination (segregation) in Brown vs. Board of Education....?

In other words, you actually believe public school districts should accomodate unconstitutional and/or legally-prohibited discriminatory practices which happen to be 'the norm' of local communities, such as racism, sexism/misogony, religious imperialism/intolerance, etc...?!

Edited October 28, 2015 by Daniel2

[Sky]

What's to forgive? It strikes me as sound advice, considering the audience.

 

"Put on a little lipstick"… it just sounded a little patronizing to me.  It also makes me think of the lipstick lesbians, and I don't think Elder Ballard would want that!   

[rockpond]

LDS vernacular? OK...

 

Do you disagree that in LDS vernacular or culture, traditional marriage/family refers to man + woman unions?

 

 

Still, the community is the net give and take of its members. LDS are taught to nurture traditional families and individuals who live without one, as long as such individuals are willing to be nurtured by LDS.

 

But Elder Ballard said we should be the most loving, kind, and tolerant.  If that's true, why do we need the qualifier to state that we nurture traditional families rather than just families (all of them)?

 

 

How does being “the most loving, the kindest and the most tolerant” translate into “honor diversity!” all of a sudden? LOL

 

I didn't say that it did.

 

 

And you haven’t answered my other questions: How is using the word “traditional” antithetical to showing love and kindness to all of God's children or discouraging the use of strident tones and derisive labels? Do you use the word that way?

 

Stating that we nurture "traditional families" excludes those families defined by Elder Ballard as non-traditional.  Do we nurture all families or only those based on a man-woman marriage?  (Not a rhetorical question, I am actually asking you.)

 

I don't use the term "traditional family" and I wouldn't have felt the need to qualify which families we nurture.

 

 

I would expect any school district to accommodate its community’s norm, whether I agree with it or not.

 

What was the community norm in the school district where Elder Ballard's 2006 example took place?  (Not expecting you to answer this one, just making a point.)

 

Elder Ballard indicated that those who "oppose us" (also ironic considering previous statements in his address about love and tolerance) should demonstrate their commitment to diversity by notifying parents if a teacher is going to read a story with homosexual characters.  He seems to be misunderstanding respect for diversity.  What he is describing is a desire for special privileges to be extended to the (presumed) majority.

[california boy]

 

In the DN article, Elder Ballard is quoted as saying:  "Mormons "should be the most loving, the kindest and the most tolerant because of that doctrine.""

 

But he is also quoted as saying:  "Mormons take a strong position on the family and are "dedicated to nurturing, protecting, and promoting traditional families"" (emphasis mine).

 

If we should be the most loving, kindest, tolerant people did he really need to qualify his statement with the word "traditional"?

 

 

 

I think this completely sums up the church's position and reality.  It is a great church if you are in a traditional family or hope to have one when you grow up.  For the rest, not so great of church.  The church likes the idea of being the most loving, kindest, tolerant people.  Hard to feel the love if you don't fit the mold.

[Scott Lloyd]

"Put on a little lipstick"… it just sounded a little patronizing to me. 

I clicked on the link and viewed the video clip. I have to say I still don't see anything there the least bit shameful or embarrassing or egregious.

 

Again, consider the audience. These are people for whom mate selection is not only important (it is or should be for everyone) but intimately so, considering the age group and circumstances of those to whom he was speaking. Advice to those in those circumstances to make themselves as appealing as possible to others, and thus expand their individual mate-selection pool, is well-placed.

 

I see an apostle of the Lord exercising pastoral care -- which is one of the responsibilities of his calling -- giving practical advice in a kind but frank manner, grandfatherly, in a way, speaking to those he loves and who love him, those who are not disposed to make him an offender for a word as some onlookers in the mass or social media apparently were eager to do.

 

It also makes me think of the lipstick lesbians, and I don't think Elder Ballard would want that! 

 

 

I've never heard the term "lipstick lesbians," but this reminds me of what the school district superintendent and board of education where I live did a few years ago. I mentioned it here on this board the other day. They took a poll to do determine popular opinion of what should be the mascot for a newly constructed high school in the district. Then, they rejected the most popular choice, Cougars, and decreed that another mascot be designated instead, one that was not even among the choices offered on the poll. The reason given was that a few gutter-minds had called the district office to complain that cougar carries a sexual connotation: a middle-aged woman hitting on younger men. The incident was so ridiculous that it made national news and the school district, board and superintendent became a laughingstock.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Scott Lloyd