Anti-Mormons And "progressive" Mormons Deny Our Lived Experience

[6EQUJ5]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

Edited October 11, 2015 by 6EQUJ5

[Senator]

This aught to be good!

 

 

 

Just remember who it was in this instance that picked the fight.

[Avatar4321]

I'm hesitant to label a group of people hypocrites.

Maybe we should just be kind to them and keep inviting them to come to church

[Storm Rider]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask believing Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

 

I have a different approach or feelings about this matter.  First, I believe that we each have our free agency.  My experiences don't "trumps" their experience except where my beliefs are concerned.  They are responsible for their own beliefs.  

 

Missionaries go into the world to find those who are seeking truth and those who are willing to listen and pray about the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.  We have our own language and method to talking about the Gospel.  We occasionally adapt our language for the people we are addressing.  

 

We do not need to adopt or co-opt the language of those who fight against Zion.  I like the counsel of Jesus that we need to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.  I firmly believe that the Evil one leads his servants and deceives all that give heed to his whispering temptations.  

[Teancum]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

I stared a thread that at least a touches some on various faith traditions truth claims and witnesses of the spirit. Here is the link that I based the thread around:

http://zelphontheshelf.com/i-bear-my-testimony-that-the-holy-ghost-is-broken/

I am happy to give anyone credence to their own lived experiences. But I find many Mormons are not willing to do the same.

Do you give credence to my lived experience where I once was as much as a testimony bearing Mormon as any here to where I now find what is called the witness of the spirit as an unreliable way to find truth, at least for me, and while still an attending Mormon I call myself a skeptic now. The links above and the thread I started on this explains some of this.

Also are you willing to accept the testimonies and truth claims of those of other faiths that are given in the article I link above!

[BTH&T]

I stared a thread that at least a touches some on various faith traditions truth claims and witnesses of the spirit. Here is the link that I based the thread around:

http://zelphontheshelf.com/i-bear-my-testimony-that-the-holy-ghost-is-broken/

I am happy to give anyone credence to their own lived experiences. But I find many Mormons are not willing to do the same.

Do you give credence to my lived experience where I once was as much as a testimony bearing Mormon as any here to where I now find what is called the witness of the spirit as an unreliable way to find truth, at least for me, and while still an attending Mormon I call myself a skeptic now. The links above and the thread I started on this explains some of this.

Also are you willing to accept the testimonies and truth claims of those of other faiths that are given in the article I link above!

 

Are you trying to sow seeds of distrust and contention?  Are you searching for truth?

Edited October 11, 2015 by BTH&T

[saemo]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc. Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days. We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost. We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate. Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

I'm curious, as to why believe your experience trumps the whole rest of the world?

BTW, what you describe here, is how I see Mormons and the so-called great apostasy. It requires that the lived experience of faithful Christians, for thousands of years, be ignored, marginalized and/or explained away.

So, maybe it's a human thing.

Edited October 11, 2015 by saemo

[JAHS]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

 

You were doing OK up to the last couple of sentences:

 

"Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side."

 

A rather rash judgment which they might also use against you.

 

"The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel."

 

Pushing back against them usually only results in having them push harder back against you.

 

In the Social Hall I menitioned the following article about how to respond to church critics, which has some pretty good suggestions:

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865638627/Friday-Minute-What-to-do-when-critics-howl-around-general-conference.html

[Ahab]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc. Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days. We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost. We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate. Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

With more exposure to other's testimonials I think you'll find that most others are just as willing to accept your testimony as you are willing to accept theirs.

So you might as well forget about thinking others will accept your say so just because you say so. If you were them you wouldn't do that either. And yet they are choosing to believe what somebody whispered to their mind.

The final results will be announced on their day of judgment.

[thesometimesaint]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

 

Le Sigh.

[Ahab]

Le Sigh.

Le Purr.

Le Meow.

Hey Pepe!

[ALarson]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

I don't see any more hypocrisy from one side or the other. I think it's something we can all work on.

 

As far as anyone asking others to "accept their claims" regarding any experiences they've had in their lives (spiritual or otherwise), I have seen very few that don't accept the word of the person posting them here.  A person's experiences are personal and I see that respected on here for the most part (even if they don't agree). Or are you expanding your accusations to all members, here or otherwise?

 

And IMO, you really cannot "know" that God lives or that Joseph Smith was a prophet.  You can believe or hope or have faith that these are true, but cannot "know" anymore than someone can "know" that there is no God.

Edited October 11, 2015 by ALarson

[thesometimesaint]

First lets establish that being conservative means something very different in a Mormon context than it does in other contexts because our tradition of is one of change. From the Pride Cycle to the rise and fall of Dispensations to the Restoration. Still a work in progress. Mormonism embraces change at such a fundamental level, that conservation of the past can never be the whole story. In a Church that expresses a commitment to future Revelation in its Articles of Faith, the status quo is never defensible long term position. We're always moving. The quest is which path we take.

Nathaniel Givens

Edited October 11, 2015 by thesometimesaint

[JulieM]

That's a pretty ugly opening post. Hypocrisy is not just one sided as others have pointed out. I always try to give someone the benefit of the doubt when they're relating a spiritual experience or confirmation whether that someone is a member, an ex-member or a nonmember. No one can perfectly do this, but I feel that most try their best to do this. You really shouldn't discount other's beliefs or feelings or label them either. These are at least my thoughts after reading the OP.

Edited October 11, 2015 by JulieM

[Teancum]

Are you trying to sow seeds of distrust and contention?  Are you searching for truth?

I am a truth seeker and at the same time a skeptic. I am not dogmatic about any thing...Mormonism, Chrisitanity, non theism, etc.

So can you answer my questions or is it too much of a threat to your beliefs ?

[6EQUJ5]

That's a pretty ugly opening post. Hypocrisy is not just one sided as others have pointed out. I always try to give someone the benefit of the doubt when they're relating a spiritual experience or confirmation whether that someone is a member, an ex-member or a nonmember. No one can perfectly do this, but I feel that most try their best to do this. You really shouldn't discount other's beliefs or feelings or label them either. These are at least my thoughts after reading the OP.

 

Perhaps my point was not as clear as I had intended it to be.

 

"Progressives" always tell us that the "lived experience" of being a woman, gay, transgender among other things is what establishes "truth" and we Mormons are ignoring the truth/experiences of those who agitate for doctrinal and policy changes.

 

We cannot allow the truth of the Gospel to be drowned out by some "lived experience" while ignoring the "lived experience" of millions of beliving, faithful, LDS worldwide.  That God lives, He called Joseph Smith as his Prophet, and we follow a prophet today. 

[6EQUJ5]

I'm curious, as to why believe your experience trumps the whole rest of the world?

BTW, what you describe here, is how I see Mormons and the so-called great apostasy. It requires that the lived experience of faithful Christians, for thousands of years, be ignored, marginalized and/or explained away.

So, maybe it's a human thing.

 

I'm not talking about other religionists.  I"m talking about progressives who use "lived experience" to oppress and silence people of faith. 

[sethpayne]

Do you give credence to my lived experience where I once was as much as a testimony bearing Mormon as any here to where I now find what is called the witness of the spirit as an unreliable way to find truth, at least for me, and while still an attending Mormon I call myself a skeptic now. The links above and the thread I started on this explains some of this.

Also are you willing to accept the testimonies and truth claims of those of other faiths that are given in the article I link above!

 

I think it is important to differentiate between testimonies and truth claims.  I know some testimonies may include truth claims, but not all do.

 

So IMO we should remain skeptical of truth-claims but open to anyone's testimony.  A testimony is an experience with one's chosen religion.  That should be respected.

Edited October 11, 2015 by sethpayne

[cynth]

Are you trying to sow seeds of distrust and contention?  Are you searching for truth?

It sounds like he was describing his experience, just like everyone else here.

[Damien the Leper]

Perhaps my point was not as clear as I had intended it to be.

 

"Progressives" always tell us that the "lived experience" of being a woman, gay, transgender among other things is what establishes "truth" and we Mormons are ignoring the truth/experiences of those who agitate for doctrinal and policy changes.

 

We cannot allow the truth of the Gospel to be drowned out by some "lived experience" while ignoring the "lived experience" of millions of beliving, faithful, LDS worldwide.  That God lives, He called Joseph Smith as his Prophet, and we follow a prophet today.

Lived experience is truth. I do not believe such experience should beat the LDS church into submission. That will prove useless and pointless. Lived experience is real and true despite the Gospel. Likewise, the Gospel does not, and should not, seek to beat lived experience into submission. That would equally be ungodly.

[mfbukowski]

The hypocrisy of anti-Mormons and progressive (regressive if you ask me) Mormons knows no bounds.

 

On the one hand they ask beliving Latter-day Saints to simply accept their claims and demands based on the "lived experience" of women and gays etc.  Yet on the other they consistently deny OUR lived experience of the True Gospel restored in the Latter-days.  We KNOW God lives because of our lived experiences with the Holy Ghost.  We KNOW Joseph Smith was a prophet because of the many blessings brought to our lives through that knowledge.

 

So from now on when anyone asks me to accept their sin as legitimate simply because it is a "lived experience" I will simply reply by stating that my lived experience is different and must also be seen as true and legitimate.  Not only that but my lived experience trumps theirs because God, and not the influence of Satan, is on my side.

 

The more we can co-opt the propogandastic language of "progressives" the sooner we can turn the tables and start pushing back against the increasing harrassment, belittlement, and persecution of those with a testimony of the Restored Gospel.

Good point!

 

They know what's right in their heart and yet deny us the same privilege

 

On the other hand, we must accept their assertion as well.  Oh well it takes variety to make a horse race. 

Net gain- zero for both sides

 

Live and let live.

Edited October 11, 2015 by mfbukowski

[JulieM]

 They know what's right in their heart and yet deny us the same privilege.

I haven't seen that. Can you give an example? From my experience, people don't call other's spiritual experiences lies or false.

[mfbukowski]

I'm curious, as to why believe your experience trumps the whole rest of the world?

BTW, what you describe here, is how I see Mormons and the so-called great apostasy. It requires that the lived experience of faithful Christians, for thousands of years, be ignored, marginalized and/or explained away.

So, maybe it's a human thing.

Tell you what

 

I'll stop believing in the apostasy and go with the pragmatic approach suggested here when you agree to accept Joseph as a prophet- for us.

 

I have no problem with relativism, but you have to give up on your absolutism.

 

You are just as absolutely sure we are wrong as you are sure you are right.   Net gain- zero

Edited October 11, 2015 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

I think it is important to differentiate between testimonies and truth claims.  I know some testimonies may include truth claims, but not all do.

 

So IMO we should remain skeptical of truth-claims but open to anyone's testimony.  A testimony is an experience with one's chosen religion.  That should be respected.

Ah, and what is truth in this context?

Edited October 11, 2015 by mfbukowski

[Five Solas]

I honestly have no idea whether 6EQUJ5 is TBM (true believing Mormon) or troll.  Could go either way, toss a coin. 

 

That kinda frightens me...

;0)

 

--Erik