Pope Francis On How To Be Happy

[Robert F. Smith]

One frequently hears on this board of problems in this or that Mormon ward which cause members to leave the Church: Ignoring or emphasizing controversial doctrinal and historical claims, drama, insensitivity, hypocrisy, etc.  All the usual suspects.

 

Pope Francis takes a more positive approach, which might be worth reflecting upon.  Indeed, his approach has caused more than one faithful Roman Catholic to stay with the Church.  He proposes five keys to happiness, online at http://news.yahoo.com/video/five-pope-francis-tips-happy-213341805.html :

 

1. Live and let live.

2. Be giving of yourself to others.

3. Stop being negative.

4. A healthy sense of leisure.

5. Work for peace.

 

Are these the best five keys?  Do Mormons take a similar approach to happiness?  Have the Brethren provided similar lists?  What would Mormons list instead or in addition?

[jkwilliams]

I like those. I would add "Forgive yourself and others."

[The Nehor]

I would add "Repent daily" and "Have at least one two-way conversation with God a day."

[why me]

One frequently hears on this board of problems in this or that Mormon ward which cause members to leave the Church: Ignoring or emphasizing controversial doctrinal and historical claims, drama, insensitivity, hypocrisy, etc.  All the usual suspects.

 

Pope Francis takes a more positive approach, which might be worth reflecting upon.  Indeed, his approach has caused more than one faithful Roman Catholic to stay with the Church.  He proposes five keys to happiness, online at http://news.yahoo.com/video/five-pope-francis-tips-happy-213341805.html :

 

1. Live and let live.

2. Be giving of yourself to others.

3. Stop being negative.

4. A healthy sense of leisure.

5. Work for peace.

 

Are these the best five keys?  Do Mormons take a similar approach to happiness?  Have the Brethren provided similar lists?  What would Mormons list instead or in addition?

There is a difference between the RC and the mormon church. One has to do with the depth of history. The troubled parts of catholic history are far in the past and are often overlooked by catholics. These issues do not touch catholics because they happened so long in the past. LDS history is quite recent. Also, the critics of the lds church are relentless in their criticism of various historical issues. And for some reason many members are influenced by this. The idea of testimony is problematic. Catholics do not have a 'testimony'  that the RC church is true and all must be perfect in RC history. They go back to the bible and the gates of hell verse and how peter is the first pope. But the lds are different. All must be as perfect as they were lead to believe and if not, the testimony can fly out the window. Catholics can also departmentalize their faith. Francis is popular because of his focus on poverty. Other issues can be left for another day. Mormons may have problems with departmentalization.

Edited September 5, 2015 by why me

[The Nehor]

There is a difference between the RC and the mormon church. One has to do with the depth of history. The troubled parts of catholic history are far in the past and are often overlooked by catholics. These issues do not touch catholics because they happened so long in the past. LDS history is quite recent. Also, the critics of the lds church are relentless in their criticism of various historical issues. And for some reason many members are influenced by this. The idea of testimony is problematic. Catholics do not have a 'testimony'  that the RC church is true and all must be perfect in RC history. They go back to the bible and the gates of hell verse and how peter is the first pope. But the lds are different. All must be as perfect as they were lead to believe and if not, the testimony can fly out the window. Catholics can also departmentalize their faith. Francis is popular because of his focus on poverty. Other issues can be left for another day. Mormons may have problems with departmentalization.

 

Compartmentalization?

 

I think the difference in history is one of what is taught and not so much that it must be perfect or far off. I would argue that there were some troubled elements in Catholic history when Joseph Smith was alive and many continue.

 

You go to Mass and you hear the Bible quoted and a sermon taught. You might hear about Peter but you aren't going to hear much about the Middle Ages. LDS scripture is more recent and we talk about some elements of church history. We talk about handcarts and Kirtland and Missouri and Nauvoo. My question is what are LDS comparing our recent history to that makes it come out wanting so much? Biblical and Book of Mormon prophets and people had similar issues all the time.

[Calm]

There is a difference between the RC and the mormon church. One has to do with the depth of history......

I am trying to figure out how this connects with the thread. Same with Nehor's. Have you guys gone off topic or is my brain asleep.

Edited September 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[strappinglad]

On occasion , number one will conflict with number five.

Following the Golden Rule is sort of there I guess. If not , it should be.

[sunstoned]

I think many Americans, including LDS struggle with number 4: A healthy sense of leisure.

[why me]

I am trying to figure out how this connects with the thread. Same with Nehor's. Have you guys gone off topic or is my brain asleep.

I more or less wrote why the pope's advice would not work for mormons. I based it in the depth of history of the two churches. Catholics are not that much affected by past corruptions of popes in the 11th century. Or with the Inquisition. Mormon history is too recent which allows for present comparisons with abuses of power: Warren Jeffs etc. How often do we hear the comparisons of Joseph with Warren by critics.

 

Mormons can be deeply affected by lds historical facts that they were unfamiliar with. Not so with catholics in general.

 

1. Live and let live.

Very difficult for mormons to do when unknown aspects of joseph's life become known: polyandry for example.

 

2. Be giving of yourself to others.

 

The nearness of lds history would still affect members who are bothered by it. Hard for some to still remain mormon. But this could happen when they are no longer members. Many Mormons seem to be too affected by critic interpretations.

3. Stop being negative.

 

LDS critics would claim that they are just being critical and not negative.

4. A healthy sense of leisure.

 

Critics would claim that the lds church monopolizes time which prevents the lds to having more leisure time.

 

5. Work for peace.

 

Once the testimony flounders, such works for peace would come outside the lds church.

 

Once a member's testimony is affected by the critics and the internet and as they immerse themselves in critic literature, it becomes hard to stay in the church and do what pope francis says should be done to stay in the church.

Edited September 5, 2015 by why me

[The Nehor]

I am trying to figure out how this connects with the thread. Same with Nehor's. Have you guys gone off topic or is my brain asleep.

 

I was just responding to the derail.

 

I more or less wrote why the pope's advice would not work for mormons. I based it in the depth of history of the two churches. Catholics are not that much affected by past corruptions of popes in the 11th century. Or with the Inquisition. Mormon history is too recent which allows for present comparisons with abuses of power: Warren Jeffs etc. How often do we hear the comparisons of Joseph with Warren by critics.

 

Mormons can be deeply affected by lds historical facts that they were unfamiliar with. Not so with catholics in general.

 

1. Live and let live.

Very difficult for mormons to do when unknown aspects of joseph's life become known: polyandry for example.

 

2. Be giving of yourself to others.

 

The nearness of lds history would still affect members who are bothered by it. Hard for some to still remain mormon. But this could happen outside the lds church ignores the  troubling aspects that now bother them about the lds church.

3. Stop being negative.

 

LDS critics would claim that they are just being critical and not negative.

4. A healthy sense of leisure.

 

Critics would claim that the lds church monopolizes time which prevents the lds to having more leisure time.

 

5. Work for peace.

 

Once the testimony flounders, such works for peace would come outside the lds church.

 

Once a member's testimony is affected by the critics and the internet and as they immerse themselves in critic literature, it becomes hard to stay in the church and do what pope francis says should be done to stay in the church.

 

Thank you Mario! But your white whale is in another thread!

[why me]

I was just responding to the derail.

 

 

Thank you Mario! But your white whale is in another thread!

How are mormons to do the five points when their testimony is shaken. Robert's items were to show how to  get catholics to stay in the fold as catholics. And could mormons do the same. Probably  not. For many mormons the church is either true or it isn't. I dont think that any of the five points would get mormons to stay in the fold once the testimony is shaken.

[TheSkepticChristian]

Very difficult for mormons to do when unknown aspects of joseph's life become known: polyandry for example.

 

what difficult aspects? still waiting for one example

and most people don't care about history, I personally think it is a waste of time, science is much better.

 

However, Joseph Smith is my hero. I think Joseph Smith would agree with a lot of stuff that Pope Francis is saying

[why me]

what difficult aspects? still waiting for one example

and most people don't care about history, I personally think it is a waste of time, science is much better.

 

However, Joseph Smith is my hero. I think Joseph Smith would agree with a lot of stuff that Pope Francis is saying

Many have left because of lds history. Polygamy, polyandry, age of his plural wives...etc. Women and the priesthood etc. Once a members testimony is shaken and they continue to be influenced by critic interpretations, and the testimony is shaken, I have no idea if any  of Robert's five points and any other ideas would work to keep them in the fold. Even on this board, we have seen faithful members fall away when they discover something that they didnt know or they become a very critical member.

[TheSkepticChristian]

Many have left because of lds history. Polygamy, polyandry, age of his plural wives...

 

How much is "many"? Most of them leave for other reasons, they don't care about lds history. I understand there are a lot of internet ex-mormons that left for the learning the History, but they are only a tiny minority compared to the actual number of people that leave the church.

 

and what is wrong with polygamy anyway? I think it is cool that JS had many wives.

 

I have no idea if any  of Robert's five points and any other ideas would work to keep them in the fold

 

For the few that do it for the history, you are right, it will not work. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[readstoomuch]

President Hinckley`s six B`s.

 

Be grateful

Be smart

Be clean

Be true

Be humble

Be prayerful

 

I like the Pope`s.  They are both men of God.  It isn`t easy to come up with a compact list of how to be happy.  Ghandi had one as well as the Dahli Lama.  Too tired to look them up, but I put the statement by Ghandi next to my desk.  

[saemo]

One frequently hears on this board of problems in this or that Mormon ward which cause members to leave the Church: Ignoring or emphasizing controversial doctrinal and historical claims, drama, insensitivity, hypocrisy, etc.  All the usual suspects.

 

Pope Francis takes a more positive approach, which might be worth reflecting upon.  Indeed, his approach has caused more than one faithful Roman Catholic to stay with the Church.  He proposes five keys to happiness, online at http://news.yahoo.com/video/five-pope-francis-tips-happy-213341805.html :

 

1. Live and let live.

2. Be giving of yourself to others.

3. Stop being negative.

4. A healthy sense of leisure.

5. Work for peace.

 

Are these the best five keys?  Do Mormons take a similar approach to happiness?  Have the Brethren provided similar lists?  What would Mormons list instead or in addition?

He actually has a list of ten.

 

1. "Live and let live." Everyone should be guided by this principle, he said, which has a similar expression in Rome with the saying, "Move forward and let others do the same."

2. "Be giving of yourself to others." People need to be open and generous toward others, he said, because "if you withdraw into yourself, you run the risk of becoming egocentric. And stagnant water becomes putrid."

3. "Proceed calmly" in life. The pope, who used to teach high school literature, used an image from an Argentine novel by Ricardo Guiraldes, in which the protagonist -- gaucho Don Segundo Sombra -- looks back on how he lived his life.

"He says that in his youth he was a stream full of rocks that he carried with him; as an adult, a rushing river; and in old age, he was still moving, but slowly, like a pool" of water, the pope said. He said he likes this latter image of a pool of water -- to have "the ability to move with kindness and humility, a calmness in life."

4. "A healthy sense of leisure." The pleasures of art, literature and playing together with children have been lost, he said.

"Consumerism has brought us anxiety" and stress, causing people to lose a "healthy culture of leisure." Their time is "swallowed up" so people can't share it with anyone.

Even though many parents work long hours, they must set aside time to play with their children; work schedules make it "complicated, but you must do it," he said.

Families must also turn off the TV when they sit down to eat because, even though television is useful for keeping up with the news, having it on during mealtime "doesn't let you communicate" with each other, the pope said.

5. Sundays should be holidays. Workers should have Sundays off because "Sunday is for family," he said.

6. Find innovative ways to create dignified jobs for young people. "We need to be creative with young people. If they have no opportunities they will get into drugs" and be more vulnerable to suicide, he said.

"It's not enough to give them food," he said. "Dignity is given to you when you can bring food home" from one's own labor.

7. Respect and take care of nature. Environmental degradation "is one of the biggest challenges we have," he said. "I think a question that we're not asking ourselves is: 'Isn't humanity committing suicide with this indiscriminate and tyrannical use of nature?' "

8. Stop being negative. "Needing to talk badly about others indicates low self-esteem. That means, 'I feel so low that instead of picking myself up I have to cut others down,'" the pope said. "Letting go of negative things quickly is healthy."

9. Don't proselytize; respect others' beliefs. "We can inspire others through witness so that one grows together in communicating. But the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes: 'I am talking with you in order to persuade you,' No. Each person dialogues, starting with his and her own identity. The church grows by attraction, not proselytizing," the pope said.

10. Work for peace. "We are living in a time of many wars," he said, and "the call for peace must be shouted. Peace sometimes gives the impression of being quiet, but it is never quiet, peace is always proactive" and dynamic.

 

http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/latest-interview-pope-francis-reveals-top-10-secrets-happiness

[thesometimesaint]

The 11th Commandment. "Thou shalt not take thyself too seriously". 

[carbon dioxide]

Another principle I would add is watch a good 1980s show each day.  It can be Miami Vice, the A Team, or Knight Rider. 

[Robert F. Smith]

Many have left because of lds history. Polygamy, polyandry, age of his plural wives...etc. Women and the priesthood etc. Once a members testimony is shaken and they continue to be influenced by critic interpretations, and the testimony is shaken, I have no idea if any  of Robert's five points and any other ideas would work to keep them in the fold. Even on this board, we have seen faithful members fall away when they discover something that they didnt know or they become a very critical member.

This board is a hotbed of discussion among Mormons and non-Mormons with an interest in Mormon history and religion.  Few of them are mainstream members or non-members, so that drawing conclusions about the average Mormon or ex-Mormon through examples found here is probably not a rational policy.

 

Having said that, very few Mormons actually leave the faith, and those who do are not normally leaving it over historical or doctrinal controversies or over women & the priesthood.

[Robert F. Smith]

He actually has a list of ten.

 

1. "Live and let live." ...................................

2. "Be giving of yourself to others." ................................

3. "Proceed calmly" in life. ...................................

4. "A healthy sense of leisure."...............................................

5. Sundays should be holidays.................................

6. Find innovative ways to create dignified jobs for young people. ..................................

7. Respect and take care of nature.................................

8. Stop being negative. .....................................

9. Don't proselytize; respect others' beliefs. .....................

Thanks for that, saemo.  And for the commentary that goes with it.  An even better overall list.

[Robert F. Smith]

I more or less wrote why the pope's advice would not work for mormons. I based it in the depth of history of the two churches. Catholics are not that much affected by past corruptions of popes in the 11th century. Or with the Inquisition. Mormon history is too recent which allows for present comparisons with abuses of power: Warren Jeffs etc. How often do we hear the comparisons of Joseph with Warren by critics.

 

Mormons can be deeply affected by lds historical facts that they were unfamiliar with. Not so with catholics in general.

..........................................................

 

The nearness of lds history would still affect members who are bothered by it. Hard for some to still remain mormon. But this could happen when they are no longer members. Many Mormons seem to be too affected by critic interpretations.

.......................................................

Not so.  Recent Roman Catholic history poses as much or more of a problem than past history.  The corruption of cardinals, bishops, and ordinary priests in the recent and continuing molestation scandal within the RC Church in America and Europe has led to many dioceses declaring bankruptcy, the closing of many parishes, and the disaffection of many formerly faithful members.  This is particularly true in Ireland -- that bulwark of ancient commitment to Catholicism.  The molestation crisis there has soured nearly the entire Irish population, and the Church is not likely ever to recover.

[Jeanne]

I watched the broadcast last night and was impressed with how he made others so happy.  To me, he seemed so genuine and loving.  I am sure that he touched some hearts as I saw the spirit in tears on faces as much as President Monson touches those who love him. Surely he did not have time to give a full account of all the he believes that make lives happy..but it seems evident that Catholics and Mormons have a lot in common. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jeanne

[why me]

Not so.  Recent Roman Catholic history poses as much or more of a problem than past history.  The corruption of cardinals, bishops, and ordinary priests in the recent and continuing molestation scandal within the RC Church in America and Europe has led to many dioceses declaring bankruptcy, the closing of many parishes, and the disaffection of many formerly faithful members.  This is particularly true in Ireland -- that bulwark of ancient commitment to Catholicism.  The molestation crisis there has soured nearly the entire Irish population, and the Church is not likely ever to recover.

Francis has made such scandals null and void. Most catholics have now put that in the past. And since francis has taken action on the abuse, I am sure that some of those catholics have returned. Thus, his 10 points.

[why me]

I watched the broadcast last night and was impressed with how he made others so happy.  To me, he seemed so genuine and loving.  I am sure that he touched some hearts as I saw the spirit in tears on faces as much as President Monson touches those who love him. Surely he did not have time to give a full account of all the he believes that make lives happy..but it seems evident that Catholics and Mormons have a lot in common. 

However there is a serious problem. Since catholics may be return to the fold because of francis they can leave just as easily when he is no longer pope. I don't think that the cardinals can ever vote in a pope like benedict. Many would leave the fold again. Such is what  happens when the pope is charismatic and media friendly. The ten points will not matter.

Edited September 5, 2015 by why me

[why me]

This board is a hotbed of discussion among Mormons and non-Mormons with an interest in Mormon history and religion.  Few of them are mainstream members or non-members, so that drawing conclusions about the average Mormon or ex-Mormon through examples found here is probably not a rational policy.

 

Having said that, very few Mormons actually leave the faith, and those who do are not normally leaving it over historical or doctrinal controversies or over women & the priesthood.

I am not going to name those who became very critical of the lds church who used to have a strong testimony and who posted on this  board. A couple  have been banned. My point was simple. When a member begins to lose their testimony, and I do have a couple of friends that this has happened to, the pope's ten points will not help. Too much disappointment. How many members have someone's podcast caused to leave the fold? I just don't see the pope's ten points working for those people.