And This Pope Rocks On

[Stone holm]

Pope Francis seems to be back on the media again, he seems to have a knack for it.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/peacemakers-pope-says-first-christmas-message-111757187.html

 

Maybe because people actually take him seriously, and its so refreshing to have a Christian with an international pulpit actually say something that sounds like Christ.

[thesometimesaint]

Pope Francis seems to be back on the media again, he seems to have a knack for it.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/peacemakers-pope-says-first-christmas-message-111757187.html

 

Maybe because people actually take him seriously, and its so refreshing to have a Christian with an international pulpit actually say something that sounds like Christ.

 

...If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[Stone holm]

...If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

 

Yeah, frankly sometimes I wonder about that....

[thesometimesaint]

That is the ideal. All of us have a long ways to go before we sleep.

[Avatar4321]

Yeah, frankly sometimes I wonder about that....

 

Why do you wonder about that? That's part of our quest for Zion. For Zion is beautiful and lovely.

[why me]

If the pope were a politician he would be called a populist because his message in playing to the masses. He is saying what the people want to hear. And he is getting much support because of it. The people do not want to hear about mortal sins, abortion, premarital sex, attending church, worshiping god, same sex marriage, etc. The message they want to hear is just love. God is love, God is merciful, God is kind, All are equal, both atheist and believer in the site of god etc. No mentioning of cultural relativism anymore or social issues that may not be so popular.

 

I am not sure if this will work in the long run. Eventually the devout catholics will want the pope to get back on track with the message that has been given by previous popes. I think that he will need to embrace the relativism in the world, the neglect of god, the social issues that are leading people astray etc. I think that he will need to find a middle way.

Edited December 26, 2013 by why me

[Stone holm]

Why do you wonder about that? That's part of our quest for Zion. For Zion is beautiful and lovely.

Oh I think it definitely is part of the quest, lots of times I wonder if we are following the admonition, seems like we spend a lot of time scolding people we think have left the path as we see it, some of whom are just admiring the scenery.

[bluebell]

Is it true that people who otherwise view Christianity with disdain are being super supportive of this pope?  

 

I have heard this accusation, but i have no idea if it's true or not so thought i would ask.

Edited December 27, 2013 by bluebell

[saemo]

If the pope were a politician he would be called a populist because his message in playing to the masses. He is saying what the people want to hear. And he is getting much support because of it. The people do not want to hear about mortal sins, abortion, premarital sex, attending church, worshiping god, same sex marriage, etc. The message they want to hear is just love. God is love, God is merciful, God is kind, All are equal, both atheist and believer in the site of god etc. No mentioning of cultural relativism anymore or social issues that may not be so popular.

 

I am not sure if this will work in the long run. Eventually the devout catholics will want the pope to get back on track with the message that has been given by previous popes. I think that he will need to embrace the relativism in the world, the neglect of god, the social issues that are leading people astray etc. I think that he will need to find a middle way.

Love is free; it is not practised as a way of achieving other ends. But this does not mean that charitable activity must somehow leave God and Christ aside. For it is always concerned with the whole man. Often the deepest cause of suffering is the very absence of God. Those who practise charity in the Church's name will never seek to impose the Church's faith upon others. They realize that a pure and generous love is the best witness to the God in whom we believe and by whom we are driven to love. A Christian knows when it is time to speak of God and when it is better to say nothing and to let love alone speak. He knows that God is love (cf. 1 Jn 4: and that God's presence is felt at the very time when the only thing we do is to love. He knows—to return to the questions raised earlier—that disdain for love is disdain for God and man alike; it is an attempt to do without God. Consequently, the best defence of God and man consists precisely in love. It is the responsibility of the Church's charitable organizations to reinforce this awareness in their members, so that by their activity—as well as their words, their silence, their example—they may be credible witnesses to Christ. -Pope Benedict XVI, "Deus Caritas Est", 31c

 

[blueadept]

If the pope were a politician he would be called a populist because his message in playing to the masses.

 

..........

 

I am not sure if this will work in the long run. Eventually the devout catholics will want the pope to get back on track with the message that has been given by previous popes. I think that he will need to embrace the relativism in the world, the neglect of god, the social issues that are leading people astray etc. I think that he will need to find a middle way.

I tend to disagree with your analysis since it's trying to use labels that's viewed as either 'liberal' or 'conservative' in ways to describe Catholics.  Here's an exerpt from a recent CatholicVote blog

 

Neither. I’m not a conservative Catholic. I’m not a liberal Catholic. I’m just Catholic. If the Church teaches it, I believe it. If she says to do something, I do it.

And Pope Francis? What is he? Again, he’s a Catholic, a son of the Church, a 100 percent, dyed-in-the-wool mackerel snapper. Try to slap some other label on the man, and you’re just setting yourself up for a massive case of confusion.

 

More appropriate labels that Catholics should use, and progressive is not one of them,

All that being said, there are still some adjectives that pair quite nicely with “Catholic.”

There are, for example, dissenting Catholics—Catholics who disagree with one or more of the Church’s teachings. Then, there are lapsed Catholics—Catholics who’ve fallen away from the Church. There are lackadaisical Catholics—Catholics who’ve grown lazy or apathetic in the practice of their faith. And there are apostate Catholics—Catholics who’ve formally separated themselves from the Church.

There also are badly catechized Catholics—Catholics who think they’re living their faith, but haven’t been given all the tools to do so. There are unevangelized Catholics—the baptized and confirmed who go through the motions of the Faith, but don’t have the slightest clue why. And there are struggling Catholics—faithful men and women having a hard time understanding or living some aspect of the Faith.

Oh, and lest we forget, there also are faithful Catholics, devout Catholics, and holy Catholics.

Neither. I’m not a conservative Catholic. I’m not a liberal Catholic. I’m just Catholic. If the Church teaches it, I believe it. If she says to do something, I do it.

And Pope Francis? What is he? Again, he’s a Catholic, a son of the Church, a 100 percent, dyed-in-the-wool mackerel snapper. Try to slap some other label on the man, and you’re just setting yourself up for a massive case of confusion.

All that being said, there are still some adjectives that pair quite nicely with “Catholic.”

There are, for example, dissenting Catholics—Catholics who disagree with one or more of the Church’s teachings. Then, there are lapsed Catholics—Catholics who’ve fallen away from the Church. There are lackadaisical Catholics—Catholics who’ve grown lazy or apathetic in the practice of their faith. And there are apostate Catholics—Catholics who’ve formally separated themselves from the Church.

There also are badly catechized Catholics—Catholics who think they’re living their faith, but haven’t been given all the tools to do so. There are unevangelized Catholics—the baptized and confirmed who go through the motions of the Faith, but don’t have the slightest clue why. And there are struggling Catholics—faithful men and women having a hard time understanding or living some aspect of the Faith.

Oh, and lest we forget, there also are faithful Catholics, devout Catholics, and holy Catholics.

[blueadept]

Is it true that people who otherwise view Christianity with disdain are being super supportive to this pope?  

 

I have this accusation, but i have no idea if it's true or not so thought i would ask.

The original St. Francis was overall liked by the Arab world and tolerated by them.  The present pope 'might' get to that level but only time and history will tell.  Among the atheists who disdain Christianity, not much change there IMHO.

[The Nehor]

Maybe I am a cynical jerk but I find calls for peace to be "sweet nothings", platitudes without substance. I give more credit to a few people skilled people using diplomacy to make the tough decisions that can lead to peace over a million people talking about how peace in the abstract is a good idea.

[cinepro]

It's about time the Pope got on board with "world peace".  Miss America candidates have been trying to get the word out for decades.

[BCSpace]

Maybe because people actually take him seriously, and its so refreshing to have a Christian with an international pulpit actually say something that sounds like Christ.

 

Hopefully the Pope will one day be that Christian.  He's said a lot of things that some identify as Christ-like, but little that actually matches the Biblical/LDS Christ.

[Stone holm]

Is it true that people who otherwise view Christianity with disdain are being super supportive of this pope?  

 

I have heard this accusation, but i have no idea if it's true or not so thought i would ask.

I believe there are a lot of non Catholics who are impressed with this Pope, its amazing how people are drawn to the actual teachings of the Four Gospels and the model of Christ. Too much has been said that is associated with hate and discrimination by Christian leaders who have large media audiences and it has repelled people from Christianity.

[mormonnewb]

I believe there are a lot of non Catholics who are impressed with this Pope, its amazing how people are drawn to the actual teachings of the Four Gospels and the model of Christ. Too much has been said that is associated with hate and discrimination by Christian leaders who have large media audiences and it has repelled people from Christianity.

I have witnessed a similar shift in attitude amongst some of my most stridently secular friends. I haven't witnessed any conversations as of yet, but certainly, a willingness to consider the teachings of Christ.

In fact, it's this response that has given me a little "pope envy." For instance, when Pope Francis hugged and kissed the man with the boils, the world could literally see the love of Christ. And it was such a stark contrast between this vision of a godly leader and the vision we most often get of our leaders -- standing apart from the membership, lecturing across the pulpit.

For instance, in my three years in the Church, I don't think that I've ever seen a picture of Pres Monson with anyone other than another apostle (or perhaps, the beloved late Sister Monson). I certainly haven't seen him wash the feet of prisoners or share the stage with a rambunctious 4 yo (both of which I have seen from the Pope).

Now, I'm sure that Pres Monson is incredibly personable and gracious in his private life. I just wish this was the image that we were putting forth to the world.

[why me]

 

If the pope were a politician he would be called a populist because his message in playing to the masses. He is saying what the people want to hear. And he is getting much support because of it. The people do not want to hear about mortal sins, abortion, premarital sex, attending church, worshiping god, same sex marriage, etc. The message they want to hear is just love. God is love, God is merciful, God is kind, All are equal, both atheist and believer in the site of god etc. No mentioning of cultural relativism anymore or social issues that may not be so popular.

 

I am not sure if this will work in the long run. Eventually the devout catholics will want the pope to get back on track with the message that has been given by previous popes. I think that he will need to embrace the relativism in the world, the neglect of god, the social issues that are leading people astray etc. I think that he will need to find a middle way.

Love is free; it is not practised as a way of achieving other ends. But this does not mean that charitable activity must somehow leave God and Christ aside. For it is always concerned with the whole man. Often the deepest cause of suffering is the very absence of God. Those who practise charity in the Church's name will never seek to impose the Church's faith upon others. They realize that a pure and generous love is the best witness to the God in whom we believe and by whom we are driven to love. A Christian knows when it is time to speak of God and when it is better to say nothing and to let love alone speak. He knows that God is love (cf. 1 Jn 4: and that God's presence is felt at the very time when the only thing we do is to love. He knows—to return to the questions raised earlier—that disdain for love is disdain for God and man alike; it is an attempt to do without God. Consequently, the best defence of God and man consists precisely in love. It is the responsibility of the Church's charitable organizations to reinforce this awareness in their members, so that by their activity—as well as their words, their silence, their example—they may be credible witnesses to Christ. -Pope Benedict XVI, "Deus Caritas Est", 31c

 

 

The catholic church has always given the message of love and charity. All popes have stressed it. However, the conversation with the last two popes also focused on moral issues, moral decay, sin, abortion, same sex marriage, etc. It just becomes a question of what should be stressed when dealing with the media: love and charity or the lack of morality, and disbelief. The pope has changed the conversation in the media.

 

Is it working? Yes, it is. It is a message that people want to hear. We all want to hear about love and charity.  Who wants to be chastised about their moral life? Or about their sins? Or about their church attendance? Or hear about the influence of atheism?

[why me]

It's about time the Pope got on board with "world peace".  Miss America candidates have been trying to get the word out for decades.

The popes have always had the message of world peace. The vatican newspapers always have articles about it and about what the popes have said about it. Nothing new here. But the new pope is leaving other aspects behind: the moral decay of the world and the rise of disbelief. I do think that the catholics who are practicing birth control do love this pope. And catholics who have given up on changing their imperfections also love this pope. But who knows. Maybe this pope is using reverse psychology. Only focus on what people want to hear so they get the message and then hope they change their wayward lifestyle later.

[why me]

I tend to disagree with your analysis since it's trying to use labels that's viewed as either 'liberal' or 'conservative' in ways to describe Catholics.  Here's an exerpt from a recent CatholicVote blog

 

More appropriate labels that Catholics should use, and progressive is not one of them,

I also don't like the term populist because it can be misunderstood as being negative. However, I thought that it would be a good term for what pope francis is attempting to do. He is giving a popular message that the masses like. And he is doing wonderful photo opts that the masses like. So, he is attracting much positive publicity. However, as soon as he begins to bring the conversation back to abortion as 'murder', the spiritual decay of the world, cultural and political relativism, moral decay of humanity etc. the media will turn on him and so will many of the people.

 

It is just a question of what needs to be stressed for today's world. All the popes talked and wrote about love and charity. But they also focused on morality and sin.

Edited December 27, 2013 by why me

[blueadept]

Maybe I am a cynical jerk but I find calls for peace to be "sweet nothings", platitudes without substance. I give more credit to a few people skilled people using diplomacy to make the tough decisions that can lead to peace over a million people talking about how peace in the abstract is a good idea.

I respect your opinion in regards to the world peace thought but remember that Muslims back in time of the 'original St. Francis' actually respected him when they didn't respect any other pope.  If the current Pope can come any where close to his namesake, perhaps some direction of 'world peace' will be more than sweet nothings.  Time will tell. He already met and dialogued with Putin and seems to be in the process of bringing the church in Russia back into the fold.  This is all rather unprecedented and we will see how it goes.

[blueadept]

I also don't like the term populist because it can be misunderstood as being negative. However, I thought that it would be a good term for what pope francis is attempting to do. He is giving a popular message that the masses like. And he is doing wonderful photo opts that the masses like. So, he is attracting much positive publicity. However, as soon as he begins to bring the conversation back to abortion as 'murder', the spiritual decay of the world, cultural and political relativism, moral decay of humanity etc. the media will turn on him and so will many of the people.

 

It is just a question of what needs to be stressed for today's world. All the popes talked and wrote about love and charity. But they also focused on morality and sin.

I don't foresee him changing his current message or changing any of the church teachings but he will continue to emphasize reaching out to the poor and teaching the Gospel as Christ did.  That can be done without emphasizing its disapprovals of issues like SSMs, abortions or women priests.

[why me]

I don't foresee him changing his current message or changing any of the church teachings but he will continue to emphasize reaching out to the poor and teaching the Gospel as Christ did.  That can be done without emphasizing its disapprovals of issues like SSMs, abortions or women priests.

I don't see him changing his message either. The message is getting too many favorable reviews for him to change it. However, I can see a crisis coming to the catholic church when it comes to the moral behavior of its members. If both saint and sinner will be welcomed to the communion during mass, I can see the symbolism of the eucharist losing its meaning. And this is what is happening now. Also, since the pope has implied that god's love is all inclusive I see no reason not to allow protestants and atheists to receive the communion. One cannot be inclusive and exclusive.

 

And of course there is a very important verse in the new testament that seems to have been forgotten when it comes to love. It is found in John:

 

John 14:12-17

King James Version (KJV)

¹² Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

¹³ And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

¹⁴ If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

¹⁵ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

¹⁶ And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

¹⁷ Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

The love that I just underlined hopefully will not be forgotten in his message to the public.

[boulder257]

I think it really depends on where you are getting your information about what this pope is saying and doing. There is no question that he is delivering a different message, but that message is being distorted by the secular media, which exacorbates the problems some of you mention.

 

Bottom line - He is doing the work of Christ here on Earth and he is doing it in an incredibly refreshing way.

[Stone holm]

I think it really depends on where you are getting your information about what this pope is saying and doing. There is no question that he is delivering a different message, but that message is being distorted by the secular media, which exacorbates the problems some of you mention.

 

Bottom line - He is doing the work of Christ here on Earth and he is doing it in an incredibly refreshing way.

 

I agree.

[blueadept]

 

I don't see him changing his message either. The message is getting too many favorable reviews for him to change it. However, I can see a crisis coming to the catholic church when it comes to the moral behavior of its members. If both saint and sinner will be welcomed to the communion during mass, I can see the symbolism of the eucharist losing its meaning. And this is what is happening now. Also, since the pope has implied that god's love is all inclusive I see no reason not to allow protestants and atheists to receive the communion. One cannot be inclusive and exclusive.

 

And of course there is a very important verse in the new testament that seems to have been forgotten when it comes to love. It is found in John:

 

I have a T-shirt that states that "Catholicism is NOT a Spectator Sport"

 

IMHO, I believe the Pope is stressing the need for Catholics to be active and do something that helps others instead of stressing its dislike of issues like abortion, SSMs etc.  Those issues should not define Catholics, but our actions in how we help others should.

 

Now I need to go run and do my non-church advocacy work for the county 

Edited December 27, 2013 by blueadept