The Truth About Singles In The Church

[The Nehor]

Is it?

Perhaps in the short term.

 

I don't worry. I have been told that my singleness can still be remedied. I don't know on which side of the veil so I just do the best I can with what I have until something changes. And yeah, I feel I am better off then those I know in unhappy marriages. Many feel trapped and lost. I have longing but longing becomes bittersweet when mingled with hope.

[The Nehor]

Or we could bring back eternal sealings from the early days of the Church - get sealed to the person of your choice but don't live in a married state until resurrected and perfected.

 

Usually those were only done when you were already married to someone. If polyandry ends up being an eternal principle I already know one wife I can marry.

[Duncan]

I don't worry. I have been told that my singleness can still be remedied. I don't know on which side of the veil so I just do the best I can with what I have until something changes. And yeah, I feel I am better off then those I know in unhappy marriages. Many feel trapped and lost. I have longing but longing becomes bittersweet when mingled with hope.

 

 

yeah-Being trapped with someone is not a good feeling!

[Calm]

There will be plenty of time later to consider this. Right now get through what you are going through and then mourn and then later make decisions like this. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

I often start wondering about the what comes after when going through a chaotic time. I think because 'planning' gives me some sense of control over something I have no control over.

I wonder if it is a helpful coping mechanism or another form of my many avoidance behaviours. Most cases I think it is probably the latter, pushing the pain of the now away. Not sure how else to approach it though. Even the therapist suggests using the 'leaf on a stream' technique...visually place your thoughts on a leaf or car or cloud, etc. and watch them move off to put a distance between you and them. Part of ACT which seems a bit counterintuitive because it is to help you be more in the moment by stepping back and looking at your thoughts at a distance so to speak.

Probably not describing it well. Look here for what I'm wandering on about:

http://www.actmindfully.com.au/acceptance_&_commitment_therapy

Not trying to make this about me, but since I got married early twenties and am still married, I don't relate to the problems save in a general way so my contribution to the conversation is probably somewhat off a ways but related generally.

Edited September 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Or we could bring back eternal sealings from the early days of the Church - get sealed to the person of your choice but don't live in a married state until resurrected and perfected.

I thought the point was for companionship in the here and now.

We are created spiritually, evolutionary...take your pick...in a way that we are not meant to be alone.

And yet we are, even when we have companions because we are alone in our thoughts and feelings.

It is a strange contradictory state. Another facet of our lives shaped in such a way to drive us to seek out God, the one who even in our limited ways we can become one with in the here and now...not always experiencing but we can be aware of his presence with us enough times that the knowledge consoles us even in times we can't sense him.

[VideoGameJunkie]

My patriarchal blessing talks of me being married in a temple on earth and having children and priesthood blessings I've received have talked about a spouse so I won't give up hope that I'll find someone. Though my hope has been low lately.

[Kenngo1969]

My dh says that he'll just get a dog when I die, because it's been too hard to figure me out, and he figures anything else will be worse.LOL ...

 

 

[Raingirl]

I've expressed some of my feelings here on the board... about how it feels being single in the Church (widowed for the past 17 years) and virtually ignored, and without children... and now older (75 in a couple months).   Living in this area, I could have had "gentleman friends" or more serious through the years if I wanted to go outside the faith.  In fact I did have a gentleman friend for about five years... he was non-LDS and a confirmed bachelor and respected my standards... and there was no one at Church, so I just sort of rocked along... and the years have passed by... I do have to say that a year after my husband passed away, I was sealed to him in the Portland Temple... and I "felt" married, and so no pressure to look for a husband.  I still feel married.  However, I would still like to enjoy an evening out now and again... and there's still no one at Church, and now I'm too old and set in my ways to take it further (a couple of my friends found mates on online LDS dating sites).

 

I get weary of hearing about the glories of being a mother... don't get me wrong, I'm solidly behind the Church's emphasis on home and family, and on motherhood... but... can't we please try and balance out conferences, programs, talks, etc., to include things that address the needs and lives of single sisters (and brothers). 

A few years ago I was called to head up the program for stake RS Women's Conference... and I made up my mind that the program would include talks/events for single sisters.  One talk was titled "One Among Many" by a fabulous LDS woman who became very successful in her career.  And an additional talk by another single LDS woman, and then of course I had all the Mother, Home, and Family type talks... but at least there were two wonderful presentations for single sisters and it was much appreciated. 

I've almost stopped going to Women's conferences because of not being included regularly in any meaningful way... we always get the obligatory "we love our wonderful single sisters" but little if anything else, and the program then proceeds right along with the usual emphasis. 

I do realize in this day and age the needs of home and families are so much more serious, so I've become more understanding... because I do believe the family is under attack, and the majority of members need to hear the counsel during conference, etc.  But please, we need a real presentation or two for singles.

 

GG

 

When I joined the church in 2011 as a single woman, I was determined to not look with a cynical eye at RS and other areas where single women might feel....not included.

 

I find my resolve wavering as time goes by.

 

Having my home teacher's (who was also the Ward Mission leader and therefore accompanied the missionaries who taught me) wife stand up in RS one Sunday and have a temper tantrum about her husband being assigned single sisters to home teach.  I don't remember what the lesson was that precipitated such a wildly inappropriate outburst, but I do remember another sister (who have previously had the same brother as a home teacher) and I looking at each other in disbelief.

 

Did she think single sisters were some kind of threat to her marriage?  If so, maybe she should have accompanied her husband on his home teaching visits and actually got to know us sisters.  Oh...but then that would have necessitated the HT to actually fulfill his calling.  I cannot tell you how many times I would be asked at church on Sunday "Is Tuesday good for you?", only to have Tuesday come and go with no-show, no-call.  This started with the missionary lessons and continued the entire time he was my HT.  So I really don't know what her tantrum was about.  But clearly, the presence of single sisters in the ward was not desirable.

 

Or how about the times I hear these words in RS - "The brethren will be getting that information in their meetings, so we won't go into it here.  Your husband can fill you in later".  One time, that was in regard to the Friends of Scouting campaign so I took that as a sign that my money wasn't wanted/needed.  Fine with me.

 

Or how about the RS lesson regarding how to sustain the priesthood?  It was ALL and ONLY about how to support our husbands.  I don't have a husband.  I don't have any family in the church, therefore there are NO priesthood holders in my family.  But I guess since I am not married to one and I don't even encounter a priesthood holder in my life outside of the three-hour block....I am not needed to do any sort of sustaining.  Not needed. Not wanted.

 

In my first ward, the single sisters were invited to the High Priest dinner.  Wow, there's a way to "include" the single sisters.  Be the oddball out who is not there with a husband while enduring the no-attempt-at-disguising-it annoyance by the wives that there's a single sister at their table intruding on their night out with their husbands.  But...oh...could you make a dish to bring as long as we're stuck with inviting you? 

 

Let's not forget the lovely lectures when you - as a single sister past the child-bearing years - express a hope to still find an eternal companion and be sealed in the temple.  How dare I express a hope or desire to marry before I leave this mortal coil when I should just shut up and wait for the next life like I'm told to do by the brethren.  (And to add insult to injury...I mustn't forget that I will then be wife #2 or 10 or 25).  And I have to squash this hope while watching the brethren high-five and backslap the 80-something year old guy who was widowed for about a minute and half, marry a non-member because we sure wouldn't want one of the brethren spending any of this mortal time alone.  Or without sex.  Or a housekeeper and cook.  They don't get told to shut up and wait for the next life.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Raingirl

[Kenngo1969]

Deleted.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Stargazer]

I would feel like a borderline sex tourist. It just feels kind of predatory.

 

 

 

There will be plenty of time later to consider this. Right now get through what you are going through and then mourn and then later make decisions like this. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

Ain't that the truth.

[Stargazer]

Hello Stargazer...

You, and your wife, have been in my prayers... I was 58 when I was widowed...  

I don't think you will face pressure to remarry from formal sources like the bishop... but as a single, marriageable, faithful  LDS man, you must expect there will be those trying to "fix you up" with the senior sisters in your ward/stake... Who knows? In time... time... you very well could be a welcome surprise to some sister who perhaps never married, or one who now finds herself alone and single.  It may not seem so now because you can't imagine it... but it could eventually be a blessing for you to remarry.  I agree that you should just continue on living the gospel, honoring your priesthood, and trusting in the Lord to guide you.  And don't jump into anything too quickly... but don't turn away either... rely on the Lord to guide you.

The most difficult times for me at first were the evenings when I would remember the ones with my husband... sitting together holding hands as we watched TV... or just talking... or playing scrabble... walking... simply sharing...  

It's been 17 years now... and I'm content... alone but not really lonely, except now and then I feel my aloneness... I have a surprisingly full life in spite of having no children.  My artwork helps because I take joy in losing myself in a painting or drawing... and there's friends... and then there's Bob.... I don't dare get started on all the cute, laugh-out-loud funny things this cat does... or how beautiful and smart he is... I mean really smart... makes me wonder sometimes, just what goes on in that little head of his, and his purpose...

Well, I'm rambling... something i seem to do more of lately... sigh...

 

All good wishes... Prayers... GG

 

It seems that Bob is a blessing from the Lord, for all that he is a felis domesticus.  I've met many cats in my life; Bob seems to be one of the better members of that species.

[Stargazer]

I've expressed some of my feelings here on the board... about how it feels being single in the Church (widowed for the past 17 years) and virtually ignored, and without children... and now older (75 in a couple months).   Living in this area, I could have had "gentleman friends" or more serious through the years if I wanted to go outside the faith.  In fact I did have a gentleman friend for about five years... he was non-LDS and a confirmed bachelor and respected my standards... and there was no one at Church, so I just sort of rocked along... and the years have passed by... I do have to say that a year after my husband passed away, I was sealed to him in the Portland Temple... and I "felt" married, and so no pressure to look for a husband.  I still feel married.  However, I would still like to enjoy an evening out now and again... and there's still no one at Church, and now I'm too old and set in my ways to take it further (a couple of my friends found mates on online LDS dating sites).

 

I get weary of hearing about the glories of being a mother... don't get me wrong, I'm solidly behind the Church's emphasis on home and family, and on motherhood... but... can't we please try and balance out conferences, programs, talks, etc., to include things that address the needs and lives of single sisters (and brothers). 

A few years ago I was called to head up the program for stake RS Women's Conference... and I made up my mind that the program would include talks/events for single sisters.  One talk was titled "One Among Many" by a fabulous LDS woman who became very successful in her career.  And an additional talk by another single LDS woman, and then of course I had all the Mother, Home, and Family type talks... but at least there were two wonderful presentations for single sisters and it was much appreciated. 

I've almost stopped going to Women's conferences because of not being included regularly in any meaningful way... we always get the obligatory "we love our wonderful single sisters" but little if anything else, and the program then proceeds right along with the usual emphasis. 

I do realize in this day and age the needs of home and families are so much more serious, so I've become more understanding... because I do believe the family is under attack, and the majority of members need to hear the counsel during conference, etc.  But please, we need a real presentation or two for singles.

 

GG

Do you not in your stake have a Single Adults organization? We do in ours. Val and I visited it once as presenters at one of their potlucks. It consisted of singles over 30, and there were about 25 present at the monthly event. It seemed like it was a fairly well-mixed group that could be mutually supportive of each other. I do gather that your stake is rather spread out, geographically, whereas ours is much more compact (half the size of the county, with our neighboring Lacey stake taking up the other half).

[Stargazer]

When I joined the church in 2011 as a single woman, I was determined to not look with a cynical eye at RS and other areas where single women might feel....not included.

 

I find my resolve wavering as time goes by.

 

Having my home teacher's (who was also the Ward Mission leader and therefore accompanied the missionaries who taught me) wife stand up in RS one Sunday and have a temper tantrum about her husband being assigned single sisters to home teach.  I don't remember what the lesson was that precipitated such a wildly inappropriate outburst, but I do remember another sister (who have previously had the same brother as a home teacher) and I looking at each other in disbelief.

 

Did she think single sisters were some kind of threat to her marriage?  If so, maybe she should have accompanied her husband on his home teaching visits and actually got to know us sisters.  Oh...but then that would have necessitated the HT to actually fulfill his calling.  I cannot tell you how many times I would be asked at church on Sunday "Is Tuesday good for you?", only to have Tuesday come and go with no-show, no-call.  This started with the missionary lessons and continued the entire time he was my HT.  So I really don't know what her tantrum was about.  But clearly, the presence of single sisters in the ward was not desirable.

 

Or how about the times I hear these words in RS - "The brethren will be getting that information in their meetings, so we won't go into it here.  Your husband can fill you in later".  One time, that was in regard to the Friends of Scouting campaign so I took that as a sign that my money wasn't wanted/needed.  Fine with me.

 

Or how about the RS lesson regarding how to sustain the priesthood?  It was ALL and ONLY about how to support our husbands.  I don't have a husband.  I don't have any family in the church, therefore there are NO priesthood holders in my family.  But I guess since I am not married to one and I don't even encounter a priesthood holder in my life outside of the three-hour block....I am not needed to do any sort of sustaining.  Not needed. Not wanted.

 

In my first ward, the single sisters were invited to the High Priest dinner.  Wow, there's a way to "include" the single sisters.  Be the oddball out who is not there with a husband while enduring the no-attempt-at-disguising-it annoyance by the wives that there's a single sister at their table intruding on their night out with their husbands.  But...oh...could you make a dish to bring as long as we're stuck with inviting you? 

 

Let's not forget the lovely lectures when you - as a single sister past the child-bearing years - express a hope to still find an eternal companion and be sealed in the temple.  How dare I express a hope or desire to marry before I leave this mortal coil when I should just shut up and wait for the next life like I'm told to do by the brethren.  (And to add insult to injury...I mustn't forget that I will then be wife #2 or 10 or 25).  And I have to squash this hope while watching the brethren high-five and backslap the 80-something year old guy who was widowed for about a minute and half, marry a non-member because we sure wouldn't want one of the brethren spending any of this mortal time alone.  Or without sex.  Or a housekeeper and cook.  They don't get told to shut up and wait for the next life.

I felt greatly downcast upon reading this. If the feelings of the Church's leadership reflect mine at all, then they are probably rather at wit's end over what to do about this disparity. As I asked in response to Garden Girl's post, does your stake not have a Single Adult organization? One that provides some sociality among those who are over 30 and single?

Why would you be told to shut up and sit down if you express a desire to marry before leaving this life? That seems singularly idiotic and thoughtless. As well as un-Christlike.

In a recent 5th Sunday presentation in my ward, one that dealt with marriage and eternality of the marriage covenant, I was asked to stand and say something about the subject. The presenter who asked me to contribute was our former bishop and former stake presidency member. I've know him and his family for over 30 years, and he asked me specifically because of the situation my wife are in at the moment. Mine was pretty much the last word, after which the closing prayer was given. Immediately upon Amen a sister who had been sitting two rows behind me (I was on the front row) got up and walked quickly to the exits to the chapel, not pausing to speak to anyone, although I think she normally would. This sister is a lifelong member, a returned missionary, and never-married at age 45. When I read your and Garden Girl's posts this brought this sister again to my thoughts -- I truly don't know what she was thinking, and for all I know she had an appointment to go to, but she had just sat through an entire meeting devoted to the glories of marriage, with the conclusion being the testimony of a happily married man about how great it all has been. I can definitely see how it could have caused her a great deal of distress.

I feel for you, Raingirl, but I have no inspiration or any revelation with which I could comfort you. I am mindful of your status, however, and for what it's worth, I shall pray for you.

Sometimes I recall the old adage: "Life's unfair, and then you die." But I mention this only to encourage you never to internalize it as ultimate truth. I believe Father has prepared for us blessings beyond imagination and of great glory, if only we will endure faithful to the end.

[guerreiro9]

How dare I express a hope or desire to marry before I leave this mortal coil when I should just shut up and wait for the next life like I'm told to do by the brethren.

CFR. I'm curious to see where you think this has been implied, because we all know these words have never been spoken by the brethren.

-guerreiro9

[Garden Girl]

Do you not in your stake have a Single Adults organization? We do in ours. Val and I visited it once as presenters at one of their potlucks. It consisted of singles over 30, and there were about 25 present at the monthly event. It seemed like it was a fairly well-mixed group that could be mutually supportive of each other. I do gather that your stake is rather spread out, geographically, whereas ours is much more compact (half the size of the county, with our neighboring Lacey stake taking up the other half).

 

Hello Stargazer...

Yes, we have a stake organization... and they do have activities... I've never attended because in my particular circumstance any activity is 120+ miles round trip... and second, I'm personally not concerned about finding a husband as some single sisters are because I am sealed to my dear one, and that does make a difference in how I feel, and in how I handle my singleness.

My ward also has activities for singles but it's mainly women who attend and maybe a couple of men.  I do attend occasionally although I'm older than everyone... but I like the social aspect.  Sometimes I feel the need to talk to someone other than Bobby-cat, as delightful as he is... Ha ha...

 

But I have similar experiences expressed by Raingirl which affect me more than not finding a man per se ... I don't know how many times I've been in RS and had the person conducting say that they weren't going to take time to make an announcement because it was being announced in Priesthood also and our husbands could bring us up to date... I've always just let it  pass, but next time it happens, I'm going to tell the RS president... and it's not just single sisters... it is also the sister who is married to a non-member like I was, i.e., a person who did not attend church with me let alone priesthood, so no announcements there either being carried home to "bring me up to  date."

 

What affects me more is sitting through meeting after meeting, whether local, stake, or gen conf, and listening to all the talks about how motherhood is ordained of God and our greatest achievement... and how the greatest contribuition that we can make to society, to the Church, and to the destiny of our Heavenly Father's children is what we do as mothers...

Although Elder Russell M. Ballard affirms this, he goes further in a wonderful talk from the 2001 BYU Women's Conf titled "Here I am, Send Me," published in a booklet called "As Women of God."  In this booklet, he presents the role of women so beautifully, and goes much deeper than what we normally hear emphasized... I know that this booklet is available through ward libraries and I encourage women to ask their ward librarians to order copies. 

And I say to Raingirl, I hope you will get and read this booklet... it helped me...

In one of his statements, Elder Ballard says that the Church's view of marriage and family sometimes causes women to ask: "Is a woman's value dependent exclusively upon her role as wife and mother?"  Elder Ballard: "The answer is simple and obvious...No! ... Every righteous woman has a significant role to play in the onward march of the kingdom of God."   

And, "Above all, we need women who will stand up for truth and righteousness and decry evil at every turn, women who will simply say, 'Here am I, Lord, send me."

I really don't think for instance that the RS presidents mean to be insensitive, but it happens... nor are all the talks on marriage and motherhood meant in any way to diminish the importrance of single sisters, but it does become wearisome when not balanced with talks such as Elder Ballard's...

 

GG              

[juliann]

I am just not sure what they can say. I mean we get plenty of general talks about repentance and tithing and the atonement that are applicable to all. What do you say to singles? Talks on loneliness maybe?

They could talk about how not all single people are lonely for starters. They could consider the probability that the Lord is active in everyone's lives no matter what their status...and that being single may actually be their calling in life. Cause guess what...single women can often do great things that married women wouldn't have the time or resources for. What about if we taught YW to plan for both possibilities....and to treat singleness as an opportunity to do other necessary things than have children? No man would be told from boyhood to invest his all into marriage rather than education or building a career. That all goes together for men. Yet we idolize women who have become successful in business, politics, or entertainment. So why not acknowledge that the Lord is pleased with their lives and may have even had a hand in it? 

 

A single may have a full satisfying life and probably most of us reach a point where we can't imagine having to trip over someone else in our homes, yet you will never hear that spoken of. It is always a alternative life with the default idea that it is a pitiful life only seen in comparison to married life. That is why we always hear a defensive "well, married life isn't so great either!" We shouldn't be putting them in competition we should be noting the positives in each. I find the idea that if anything good about singlehood is said that all women will jump ship to be an indictment of marriage. I don't think I have ever known a woman who didn't want to be married at some point, Mormon or not. 

 

When I grew weary of the nonstop lessons on how righteous children could only be produced with a mother and father, I finally said that yes, my situation was not the "ideal" but the daughter I raised as a single mother was. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by juliann

[Calm]

CFR. I'm curious to see where you think this has been implied, because we all know these words have never been spoken by the brethren.

-guerreiro9

If you look at her post, she is using brethren to refer to men in general in the church, not just General Authorities (the RS Pres states the brethren will be getting the info in their meeting). She can clarify, but I don't read her as saying this treatment of being silent about her hopes comes from SLC.

It sounds like it is a local church attitude. I have run into the opposite in from a few members in some wards, the vibe is the single sisters should be moping around until marriage comes around and not filling their lives with wonderful things because all those are really just distractions. Not being single, I haven't had much opportunity to pick up on the nuances in conversations that are directed towards singles. The closest was probably a warning from a sister married to a nonmember (who was clear she didn't intend to spend eternity with him, he had a critical sarcastic edge to him that could be very difficult to live with) who warned me I should be attending more gettogethers at church with my husband, who she thought was a very nice man...and she is right. She was concerned that a single sister would see him as available.

Otoh, I have been grateful that my husband has had the opportunity to be there for sisters when it can make their lives better in some small way. I am all for him fulfilling his hometeaching duties with enthusiasm and going beyond what is asked of him. I trust the sisters and I trust him not to put themselves in problematic situations. I know it can happen at times (did with a former bishop) but simple steps wisely taken by those involved are good safeguards. It would be wrong to allow fear of mightbes interfere with serving those who need us.

Edited September 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[Raingirl]

Raingirl,

 

I cannot, of course, appreciate your plight.  The experiences you've had would make many people bitter.  Whether such bitterness serves them (or you) well or not, however, is another matter.

 

This shows why so many single women in the church don't say anything.  We are immediately branded as "bitter" when simply stating what our experiences are.

 

It would be nice if the brethren could set aside that attitude and LISTEN.

 

In Judaism (at least traditional Judaism, I'm not so sure about liberal Judaism) marriage and family is extremely important.  For everyone.  At every age.  The "brethren" there were pro-active about it.  Matchmaking is a long-standing, respected tradition.  When a rabbi is dealing with single people  - again, women included - he always has in the back of his head - do I know someone for this person?  Rebbetzins (rabbi's wives) are the same way.  Always thinking - do I know someone for this person?  And they DO something about it!

 

Not too many years before I joined the church, I attended a talk at our synagogue by a Jewish author from New York,  As we were chatting while he was signing my copy of his book afterwards, he made a comment regarding my perceived single status.  (In Orthodox Judaism, married women traditionally cover their hair - hats, wigs, etc.)  He then asked if I desired to be married.

 

Action versus just talking about it.

 

Plus, I think you and others missed the point - I still have hope.  But I (and other women) are being told by the brethren to stop hoping.  If I were as bitter as you imply, why would I still have hope? 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Raingirl

[bluebell]

This shows why so many single women in the church don't say anything.  We are immediately branded as "bitter" when simply stating what our experiences are.

 

It would be nice if the brethren could set aside that attitude and LISTEN.

 

In Judaism (at least traditional Judaism, I'm not so sure about liberal Judaism) marriage and family is extremely important.  For everyone.  At every age.  The "brethren" there were pro-active about it.  Matchmaking is a long-standing, respected tradition.  When a rabbi is dealing with single people  - again, women included - he always has in the back of his head - do I know someone for this person?  Rebbetzins (rabbi's wives) are the same way.  Always thinking - do I know someone for this person?  And they DO something about it!

 

Not too many years before I joined the church, I attended a talk at our synagogue by a Jewish author from New York,  As we were chatting while he was signing my copy of his book afterwards, he made a comment regarding my perceived single status.  (In Orthodox Judaism, married women traditionally cover their hair - hats, wigs, etc.)  He then asked if I desired to be married.

 

Action versus just talking about it.

 

Plus, I think you and others missed the point - I still have hope.  But I (and other women) are being told by the brethren to stop hoping.  If I were as bitter as you imply, why would I still have hope? 

 

Are you saying that you wish that more people in the church (especially leadership) tried to be match makers?  That they should be match makers and you resent that they aren't doing that more?  I'm just asking because i'm not sure if i'm reading your point right.  

[Raingirl]

I felt greatly downcast upon reading this. If the feelings of the Church's leadership reflect mine at all, then they are probably rather at wit's end over what to do about this disparity. As I asked in response to Garden Girl's post, does your stake not have a Single Adult organization? One that provides some sociality among those who are over 30 and single?

Why would you be told to shut up and sit down if you express a desire to marry before leaving this life? That seems singularly idiotic and thoughtless. As well as un-Christlike.

In a recent 5th Sunday presentation in my ward, one that dealt with marriage and eternality of the marriage covenant, I was asked to stand and say something about the subject. The presenter who asked me to contribute was our former bishop and former stake presidency member. I've know him and his family for over 30 years, and he asked me specifically because of the situation my wife are in at the moment. Mine was pretty much the last word, after which the closing prayer was given. Immediately upon Amen a sister who had been sitting two rows behind me (I was on the front row) got up and walked quickly to the exits to the chapel, not pausing to speak to anyone, although I think she normally would. This sister is a lifelong member, a returned missionary, and never-married at age 45. When I read your and Garden Girl's posts this brought this sister again to my thoughts -- I truly don't know what she was thinking, and for all I know she had an appointment to go to, but she had just sat through an entire meeting devoted to the glories of marriage, with the conclusion being the testimony of a happily married man about how great it all has been. I can definitely see how it could have caused her a great deal of distress.

I feel for you, Raingirl, but I have no inspiration or any revelation with which I could comfort you. I am mindful of your status, however, and for what it's worth, I shall pray for you.

Sometimes I recall the old adage: "Life's unfair, and then you die." But I mention this only to encourage you never to internalize it as ultimate truth. I believe Father has prepared for us blessings beyond imagination and of great glory, if only we will endure faithful to the end.

 

Thank you for your very caring words.

 

Lest I be misunderstood (again) by others (not you)......

 

I don't have any desire for the church to put less emphasis on marriage and family.  One of the reasons I was able to make the never-anticipated leap from being an Orthodox Jew to being a Mormon was the very fact that marriage and family are an integral part of the plan of salvation.  It was one of the things (along with the never previously encountered teachings about the pre-mortal life) that confirmed to me that the church is true.  I really think our society has lost it's way regarding marriage and family and the vital importance thereof.

 

So I don't want the church to shut up about it.  I don't want the church to bend to the ways of the world.  I am ecstatic that there are those who still believe in and teach the importance of marriage and family.

 

But...there is definitely room for improvement in the way the church treats single people, especially "older" single sisters.   If it is so important - and so celebrated - for an 80-something year old guy to marry again (and that he marries outside the church) - why is it not important for a woman two or three or four decades younger not to marry/re-marry?  And if it IS important, then why not do something to help rather than just expect us to organize our own "single activities" and call that helping?

 

Again, I like the Orthodox Jewish approach where everyone is actively trying to help everyone else find their eternal companion.

[Raingirl]

CFR. I'm curious to see where you think this has been implied, because we all know these words have never been spoken by the brethren.

-guerreiro9

 

 

Are you for real?

 

You're calling for a CFR on my personal experiences within the church?

 

How about a CFR from you?

 

Can you provide documentation that you have personally spoken to the individuals to whom I have had these conversations with and that they have confirmed to you that we did not have these conversations?  Can you provide documentation that you even know the names of the brethren with whom I have had these conversations?

 

Can you CFR for the forum every personal experience you ever speak of?  Or should we make the same assumption as you have made about me?  That of being a liar?

 

So, sure, give me the names of the brethren I have spoken with, that you somehow magically know about, and I'll get them to "CFR" our conversations.  Heck, I can even get my home teacher to help.  He doesn't subscribe to the attitude I am speaking of, but we have had conversations about the subject and he knows some of the brethren who have made such statements to me.

 

The next time one of the brethren dismisses my hope to be married in this life and refers me to the church teaching that I should just wait for the next life, I'll be sure to refer him to you for clarification that there has never been any such teaching in the church.

 

Now it is time for me to bow out of this conversation.  I have fun plans for this Saturday evening, but there are some chores to be attended to first.

[Calm]

Maybe I am out of the loop, but I've never seen any pushing of older men to be remarried to the point it was better to marry a nonmember than remain single.

And you do appear to be saying this is a widespread attitude in the Church, telling women they shouldn't be hoping and instead just silently wait until the next life.

****Add-on: now that you have written another post, it appears again that you are limiting it to your local area. Could ou clarify just to be sure, thank you.****

If this is something you see as widespread and possibly even among higher leadership, could you point out where you have come across it in teachings and talks to clarify. As I said above, I've seen some of the opposite attitude, but I am surprised you've encountered this and it would help to hear more specifics to understand where you have seen it coming from?

Add-on 2: studies have shown in the general population that widowers are much more likely to get remarried than widows and those men who saw their marriages as happy ones are even more prone to do so then men who did not, so it does not surprise me that inside the Church many widowers do get remarried especially as there is no sealing issue for them as might occur for widows. The ones I've known have been men getting to know female friends on a deeper level rather than brand new acquaintances, they have all been friends of their late wives and LDS. I wonder how common this actually is.

Edited September 5, 2015 by calmoriah

[The Nehor]

They could talk about how not all single people are lonely for starters.

 

I would not describe myself as lonely in general. I have brothers and sisters and parents and nieces and nephews and friends and coworkers and others I care for and who care for me. These is still loneliness that comes from feeling incomplete without a spouse. I can bear with it and it does not influence me all the time but it is still there.

 

 

They could consider the probability that the Lord is active in everyone's lives no matter what their status...and that being single may actually be their calling in life. Cause guess what...single women can often do great things that married women wouldn't have the time or resources for. What about if we taught YW to plan for both possibilities....and to treat singleness as an opportunity to do other necessary things than have children? 

 

I don't think anyone is truly arguing that the Lord forsakes singles. He has not forsaken me. It may be the cross some have to bear. I would still argue that singleness is ideal but everyone has some portion of their life that is less then ideal. Some get a bigger helping of it then others.

 

Single people do have opportunities that married people do not. I still think being single is the less ideal state but we do the best we can with what we are given. I wouldn't exalt the secondary alternative above the ideal to avoid someone favoring the lesser alternative but I would not degrade or diminish the good done by those facing those circumstances.

 

 

No man would be told from boyhood to invest his all into marriage rather than education or building a career. That all goes together for men. Yet we idolize women who have become successful in business, politics, or entertainment. So why not acknowledge that the Lord is pleased with their lives and may have even had a hand in it? 

 

Yet men are told their education and career are secondary to their family responsibilities. I imagine the same counsel applies to women. The Lord is pleased with anyone who submits their will to his and does what they can in the circumstances they find themselves.

 

 

A single may have a full satisfying life and probably most of us reach a point where we can't imagine having to trip over someone else in our homes, yet you will never hear that spoken of. It is always a alternative life with the default idea that it is a pitiful life only seen in comparison to married life. That is why we always hear a defensive "well, married life isn't so great either!" We shouldn't be putting them in competition we should be noting the positives in each. I find the idea that if anything good about singlehood is said that all women will jump ship to be an indictment of marriage. I don't think I have ever known a woman who didn't want to be married at some point, Mormon or not. 

 

Part of me hopes I reach that point. I do not see my singleness as pitiful. There are some who probably pity me. I have even indulged in self-pity but God has told me to take a page out of President Uchtdorf's counsel and "Stop it!". There should not be a competition but nor should the lesser be compared equally to the greater.

[Raingirl]

Are you saying that you wish that more people in the church (especially leadership) tried to be match makers?  That they should be match makers and you resent that they aren't doing that more?  I'm just asking because i'm not sure if i'm reading your point right.  

 

Yet another reason why single women in the church are reluctant to speak up or share their feelings.  Because - surely - we are just oozing with resentment over our single status.  I guess we are not allowed to have even momentary feelings of sadness or pain - our feelings must certainly be categorized as some negative (and therefore, inappropriate, emotion).

 

I was merely providing an example of those who put actions behind their words.  That they don't stop at standing up and giving pretty speeches over the pulpit.

 

I was giving an example of a faith group who also puts great emphasis on marriage and family and what they ACTIVELY do about it that is different from the LDS church.  That example being the fact that it is common for Orthodox Jews to ACTIVELY help single people find marriage by doing things such as introducing compatible singles that they know to each other.  That was just one of a whole host of examples that I could give you within Orthodox Judaism.  The point being - again - that they don't just preach it, they do something about it.

 

Yes, I do think there is more that the church - as authorities and as individuals- could do on behalf of singles.  Specifically, older singles.  Beyond some stakes calling someone to be a rep for older singles..and that being the total extent of the action.....I don't see any support for older singles that is being done by the church and not by the singles themselves.  In my last ward, we organized a FHE group for older singles.  We did that.  Not the church.

 

Now before the lectures on self-reliance, etc. start....yeah, I get that.  And I/we do that.  To degrees that the church and married people are probably oblivious to.  We aren't sitting around waiting for our EC to magically show up on our doorstep.  We aren't sitting around, period.  We continue on with our lives being valuable (although often unrecognized) members of the church and having great, fulfilling lives in many other ways.

 

But if you are going to teach a plan of salvation in which marriage and family are vital, then you should strive to do as much as possible to help make that happen for EVERYONE.  And - as illustrated by my one (apparently objectionable) example - there are many, many more ways - creative ways-  that everyone can be helping everyone else in this regard. Are we not all on this path together?

 

"Singles activities" aren't a one-size-fits-all magical answer. To this subject or others.  It reminds me of a conversation I was privy to in my last ward - one in which a VT asked her single teachee where she had spent Thanksgiving.  The single woman responded that she had spent it alone in her rented room, having no family in this part of the country, not being invited to anyone's home for Thanksgiving, not being invited to go along with her landlady for dinner at the landlady's daughter's house, and not being allowed by the landlady to invite anyone over to host a meal herself ( or having another venue in which to host).  The VT responded with the comment "I thought they had single's activities for that".  As though single people are a separate species that should only mingle with other single people.  As though married people should never concern themselves with things such as how their single teachee might be spending a holiday because "singles' activities" are the answer to everything.

 

So, yeah, I do think there are things that everyone can be doing to help everyone else along the road to marriage and family.  Should there be some sort of commanded obligation? Items on a job description checklist? That's not what I am saying.  I am saying that if we believe what we teach/preach, then we need to put actions behind those words and there are many, many ways to do that beyond calling a single's rep and doing nothing beyond that.

 

And we also need to make single people feel valuable as the single person they are.  And not just some after-thought in a lesson. Or a never-thought.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Part of me feels due to my circumstances, I might not be married and have biological children in this life, but if I don't give up I know the afterlife and the millennium will be wonderful. My patriarchal blessing talks about me accomplishing things I couldn't accomplish during my earth life in the Morning of the First Resurrection.