Tea And The Word Of Wisdom

[jkwilliams]

So, one of my kids just returned home from BYU-Idaho with an interesting report. Apparently, students are drinking green tea and white tea, which they claim aren't against the Word of Wisdom. Only black tea is against the Word of Wisdom, they say. The thing is, tea is tea, green, white, or black. The only distinction is the level of oxidation, drying, or fermentation. I have to admit I've never heard anyone suggest that green or white tea is acceptable for Latter-day Saints. (I don't drink tea, though I do like a few herbal teas, such as hibiscus and rooibos.)

 

Has anyone heard of such a thing? I am inclined to believe it's just a form of rationalizing.

[HappyJackWagon]

I've had people ask me about it before. It's confusing because there are so many different styles of tea (herbal & whatnot). I think virtually every Bishop and SP will tell them that any tea derived from a tea leave is against the WoW. Then again, is it any worse than a 5 hour energy which is not against the WoW? I don't know. Not my thing.

[jkwilliams]

I've had people ask me about it before. It's confusing because there are so many different styles of tea (herbal & whatnot). I think virtually every Bishop and SP will tell them that any tea derived from a tea leave is against the WoW. Then again, is it any worse than a 5 hour energy which is not against the WoW? I don't know. Not my thing.

 

I had a companion on my mission who would teach the Word of Wisdom by talking about how coffee and tea had harmful substances in them: cafeina (caffeine) and teina ("tea-ine"). Don't know why that memory just popped into my head. 

[JAHS]

I think the most important aspect of the Word of Wisdom in regards to such things is to avoid becoming addicted. The phrase "hot drinks" in this scripture (D&C 89:9), we have been told, refers to hot black coffee and hot black tea. In regards to anything else besides this, how one interprets and lives the Word of Wisdom is really a personal choice for each individual. A cup of green tea contains about 10 to 20 mg caffeine. I personally do not drink it. 

[Tacenda]

Well according to the medical establishment tea and coffee are good for you. But instead the LDS are only allowed the bad stuff, such as Diet Coke etc. Since caffeine is ok now. Still wondering what the chemical is in tea and coffee. I wonder if it's the appearance of evil sort of thing. Coffee and cigarettes going together, etc., I've heard that before. I think the church would be more legitimate with the WoW had they stuck with the sodas with caffeine being a no-no.

But could never see our church allowing coffee and tea, just like I doubt it will ever have a cross in our meetinghouses.

[jkwilliams]

Well according to the medical establishment tea and coffee are good for you. But instead the LDS are only allowed the bad stuff, such as Diet Coke etc. Since caffeine is ok now. Still wondering what the chemical is in tea and coffee. I wonder if it's the appearance of evil sort of thing. Coffee and cigarettes going together, etc., I've heard that before. I think the church would be more legitimate with the WoW had they stuck with the sodas with caffeine being a no-no.

But could never see our church allowing coffee and tea, just like I doubt it will ever have a cross in our meetinghouses.

 

I used to work with a guy at the Church Office Building who believed that the Word of Wisdom became much more important after the end of polygamy because church members needed a visible marker of being "peculiar," which polygamy had previously served. I thought it was an interesting idea.

 

My guess is that it's more a question of obedience than health, but what do I know? I'm sitting here drinking a double espresso.

[Doctor Steuss]

Has anyone heard of such a thing?

Nope.

 

That being said (and somewhat on the same topic):

 

The Gospel Essentials lesson this week was on the WoW.  My fiancé has been investigating the church, and she still thinks the coffee/tea aspect of the WoW makes absolutely no sense.  I drink between 5-10 cups of green tea each day -- partially for the caffeine (one of the mood stabilizers I take has a tranquilizing side effect), and partially for the myriad of health benefits.  She has a cup of coffee each morning as she has found it helps with her asthma (she hasn’t had to use her inhaler since she started drinking a cup of coffee each morning).

 

During the lesson, I couldn’t help but think of the types of refreshments you find at a typical church activity – yet it’s coffee and tea that we need to be worried about.  Also, the tea aspect, and just how arbitrary it seems to be.  Green Tea = bad.  Mormon Tea = ok.  Even though Mormon Tea is a species of ephedra.

 

The best I’ve been able to come up with is that the reasons for the WoW are generally 3-fold.

 

1. Obedience.
2. Addiction prevention.
3. Something to set the members of the church apart from the “world.”

 

Still doesn't make much sense though... *shrug*

Edited August 24, 2015 by Doctor Steuss

[strappinglad]

I take anything researchers say about food or drink with a large grain of aspartame. Like eggs, coffee tea and alcohol have studies which claim both good and bad . Kind of similar to the name of JS. I'm just lucky I hate even the smell of coffee and beer so little temptation there.

[HappyJackWagon]

I used to work with a guy at the Church Office Building who believed that the Word of Wisdom became much more important after the end of polygamy because church members needed a visible marker of being "peculiar," which polygamy had previously served. I thought it was an interesting idea.

 

My guess is that it's more a question of obedience than health, but what do I know? I'm sitting here drinking a double espresso.

Absolutely. I totally agree. It was part of the church's rebranding from religious sex cult (which is how the majority of the country saw us at the time) to a mainstream, conservative family values church.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I was under the impression that any tea from the tea leaf was wrong. I remember that converts needed to give it up. They could not get baptized. Since then I have asked my bishop and SP about it. They both confirmed that they would give a TR to anyone that drinks tea or coffee. Of course at the time I was specifically asking about decaf. How ever they didn't even make a distinction on the decaf. They both said that neither of those were mentioned in the WoW so because of that they would not deny some one.

 

Guess things change.

 

On top of that I have a friend who drinks green tea regularly and he has a TR. I asked him about and he said his bishop has no issue with it. Soooooo.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Gray]

So, one of my kids just returned home from BYU-Idaho with an interesting report. Apparently, students are drinking green tea and white tea, which they claim aren't against the Word of Wisdom. Only black tea is against the Word of Wisdom, they say. The thing is, tea is tea, green, white, or black. The only distinction is the level of oxidation, drying, or fermentation. I have to admit I've never heard anyone suggest that green or white tea is acceptable for Latter-day Saints. (I don't drink tea, though I do like a few herbal teas, such as hibiscus and rooibos.)

 

Has anyone heard of such a thing? I am inclined to believe it's just a form of rationalizing.

 

I've heard of several instances of local leadership being okay with green tea. A lot of people also use it as a supplement. 

[jkwilliams]

I've heard of several instances of local leadership being okay with green tea. A lot of people also use it as a supplement. 

 

I know some people in Utah who use a green-coffee supplement for weight loss. 

[Tacenda]

I know some people in Utah who use a green-coffee supplement for weight loss. 

Yes, one of my very LDS FB friends will share the advertisement sometimes.  I'm like whoa, I guess it's ok now.  BTW, I've mentioned this once or twice on this board.  A few years ago, in my preventative state of mind I called the church office building asking to speak with someone about green tea being allowed.  It just seem so fuzzy on the answers out there.  The gentlemen who answered pretty much said yes in my mind, and that he had heard of some LDS doctors who drank it.  But he did say it was up to me or the spirit, can't remember.  He really left me hanging.  No clear cut answer at all. 

 

I asked because I had heard it was good for preventing Alzheimer's, now I hear that all the time about coffee. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by Tacenda

[Kenngo1969]

... My guess is that it's more a question of obedience than health, but what do I know? I'm sitting here drinking a double espresso.

That's an astute observation, and, by and large, I think it's correct.  Here are some more of my thoughts on the matter:

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/power-of-covenant-keeping/

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/on-gods-injustice/

 

P.S.: I think we, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, often get so hung up on the first seventeen verses of Section 89 that we forget that the key part is the last four.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[ALarson]

I've heard the story of how Joseph added the abstaining from tea just to retaliate a bit for the ladies wanting them to abstain from chewing tobacco (since the ladies loved their tea).  I've never seen any references for this though or sources (and I haven't really looked either).  Is this just a myth or made up story?

[Kenngo1969]

 

... The best I’ve been able to come up with is that the reasons for the WoW are generally 3-fold.

 

1. Obedience.
2. Addiction prevention.
3. Something to set the members of the church apart from the “world.”

 

Still doesn't make much sense though... *shrug*

Perhaps we should stop trying so hard to get God's commandments to line up with human reasoning (Isaiah 55:8-9), and realize that God's reasons (at least, many of them) might not make sense from a mortal perspective.  Why was it important what the Jews wore, or how many steps they took on the Sabbath, and so on?  To focus too much on the "do's-and-don'ts" is to miss the larger point: Paul called the law their schoolmaster to bring them to Christ.  How about a fourth reason?  How about the spiritual power that comes from obedience and covenant-keeping?

[HappyJackWagon]

I was under the impression that any tea from the tea leaf was wrong. I remember that converts needed to give it up. They could not get baptized. Since then I have asked my bishop and SP about it. They both confirmed that they would give a TR to anyone that drinks tea or coffee. Of course at the time I was specifically asking about decaf. How ever they didn't even make a distinction on the decaf. They both said that neither of those were mentioned in the WoW so because of that they would not deny some one.

 

Guess things change.

 

On top of that I have a friend who drinks green tea regularly and he has a TR. I asked him about and he said his bishop has no issue with it. Soooooo.

Sounds like your Bishop and SP were coffee/tea drinkers.

It's true coffee/tea aren't mentioned as things to avoid in the WoW, but on the other hand "mild barley drinks" are good for consumption but are currently denied. Although, I guess if you get a Bishop or SP that is up for that kind of interpretation you'd be good with beer as well.

 

Other drugs are not mentioned in the WoW. Do they skip everything that is not "mentioned" in the WoW? Just curious. It seems like if word got out the stakes population would swell with migrating members.

[Avatar4321]

It seems to me that instead of trying to figure out how to skirt the line we just stay far away as we can?

The health benefits of following the Lord will always outweigh any perceived gains from disobedience.

[thesometimesaint]

Sounds like your Bishop and SP were coffee/tea drinkers.

It's true coffee/tea aren't mentioned as things to avoid in the WoW, but on the other hand "mild barley drinks" are good for consumption but are currently denied. Although, I guess if you get a Bishop or SP that is up for that kind of interpretation you'd be good with beer as well.

 

Other drugs are not mentioned in the WoW. Do they skip everything that is not "mentioned" in the WoW? Just curious. It seems like if word got out the stakes population would swell with migrating members.

 

Barley water is almost as old a beer itself. It is a non-alcoholic drink made from Barley.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barley_water

[JulieM]

I think the whole tea and coffee part of the WoW is hard to make sense out of. I don't drink either of these but I don't think a person is sinning if they do. Mainly now all one can fall back on as a reason (now that caffeine has been addressed as not being against the WoW) is that we just don't know why but we still need to be obedient. The whole staying away from hot drinks falls apart because members drink hot chocolate and hot cider and more. Also chocolate has caffeine too so that's another prior contradiction. Maybe the addiction is part of it too but people get addicted to soda. So you come back to what is so bad about tea or coffee?

[smac97]

“The Word of Wisdom counsels against drinking “hot drinks,” which have been identified by early Church leaders as coffee and tea. “Tea” refers to the standard tea derived from the tea plant, sometimes called black tea or green tea. The Word of Wisdom has not been interpreted as proscribing herbal teas, stating that “all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man (D&C 89:10)” (Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel, p.434).

 

“This Word of Wisdom prohibits the use of hot drinks and tobacco. I have heard it argued that tea and coffee are not mentioned therein; that is very true; but what were the people in the habit of taking as hot drinks when that revelation was given? Tea and coffee. We were not in the habit of drinking water very hot, but tea and coffee-the beverages in common use. And the Lord said hot drinks are not good for the body nor the belly.” (Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, selected and arranged by John A. Widtsoe, p.182)

 

“The Word of Wisdom contains certain very important warnings. It declares that alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee are not good for the body. The revelation says “hot drinks,” but before the revelation was a year old, “hot drinks” were defined to include tea and coffee” (Elder John A. Widtsoe, Conference Report, April 1926).

 

See also: http://askgramps.org/3895/is-green-tea-against-the-word-of-wisdom

 

And here: http://www.hotpepper.ca/lds/wordofwisdom/prohibitions/hot-drinks/

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[provoman]

“The Word of Wisdom counsels against drinking “hot drinks,” which have been identified by early Church leaders as coffee and tea. “Tea” refers to the standard tea derived from the tea plant, sometimes called black tea or green tea. The Word of Wisdom has not been interpreted as proscribing herbal teas, stating that “all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man (D&C 89:10)” (Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel, p.434).

Is this the Church standard or is representative of a "gospel hobby horse" of Victor L. Ludlow? Should an individual, who has not been ordained or sustained to do so, make proclamations that appear to suggest a position of the Church?

See also: http://askgramps.org/3895/is-green-tea-against-the-word-of-wisdom

And here: http://www.hotpepper.ca/lds/wordofwisdom/prohibitions/hot-drinks/

Thanks,

-Smac

Should we look to the Church for guidance or "gramps" who operates a internet blog.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Sounds like your Bishop and SP were coffee/tea drinkers.

It's true coffee/tea aren't mentioned as things to avoid in the WoW, but on the other hand "mild barley drinks" are good for consumption but are currently denied. Although, I guess if you get a Bishop or SP that is up for that kind of interpretation you'd be good with beer as well.

 

Other drugs are not mentioned in the WoW. Do they skip everything that is not "mentioned" in the WoW? Just curious. It seems like if word got out the stakes population would swell with migrating members.

I can only report on what they said. From my perspective they both should be avoided. As far as I can tell nothing has changed or should change. I have not heard any conference talks going against what Smac posted.  So green tea should be forbidden.

 

BTW I am not advocating for people drinking tea.

[smac97]

Is this the Church standard or is representative of a "gospel hobby horse" of Victor L. Ludlow? Should an individual, who has not been ordained or sustained to do so, make proclamations that appear to suggest a position of the Church?

Should we look to the Church for guidance or "gramps" who operates a internet blog.

 

I was just providing a few resources.  I am not sure the Church has issued guidelines regarding different types of "tea."

 

That said, Victor Ludlow's assessment appears reasonable.  The second hyperlink also.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[ALarson]

 

“The Word of Wisdom counsels against drinking “hot drinks,” which have been identified by early Church leaders as coffee and tea. “Tea” refers to the standard tea derived from the tea plant, sometimes called black tea or green tea. The Word of Wisdom has not been interpreted as proscribing herbal teas, stating that “all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man (D&C 89:10)” (Victor L. Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel, p.434).

Does Victor L. Ludlow give a source that names who the "early church leaders" are that identified hot drinks as tea and coffee?  I'd really be interested in reading the actual source and quotes. Thanks.