Taking A "sabbatical" From Activity In The Church

[stemelbow]

The truth is always off-putting. Anyway, you may not have to worry about my style much longer because I've come to realize no matter how a defender of the Church has framed his or her arguments on this board, there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith. So I'm persuaded it's best to just ignore certain individuals (I encourage them to ignore me as well) because trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort. I'm also sure those on the other side are just as frustrated as I am that they haven't been able to convince me to begin to doubt the Church. So no hard feelings, but enough is enough.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

Perhaps if you stopped seeing each other on sides posturing to battle, you'd benefit more and those nasty "critics" might benefit from you too. You seem to have plenty to offer.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

> Consider the following from Elder Oaks:

==Again: Do you think President Monson would agree or disagree with her recommendation for other Latter-day Saints to ditch activity in the Church for a year?

I honestly don't know. I do not think I would ever here that from the pulpit from him. I would have to guess that in private if I had the chance to ask him, his advise would be similar to Elder Oaks. If he said it was okay in one instance then that might get out and be misinterpreted around the church. As Elder Oaks says, General Authorities do not teach exceptions. Do I think he would condemn what Sister Riess did as you have done? Absolutely not. Many people report that Elder Kimball, though harsh in his rhetoric in miracle of forgiveness was much kinder in one on one situations. I think being a General Authority would be tough as there will always be people waiting to misinterpret your intentions.

> You repeatedly called her a covenant breaker. What particular covenant did she admit to breaking again?

==She is encouraging her fellow Latter-day Saints to disobey God's commandments. She is doing so by bragging about her deliberate decision to disobey God's commandments. We have extensive counsel from the prophets and apostles regarding Sabbath observance:

She does no such thing. She talks of a way that she dealt with a particular situation (one of Elder Oaks' exceptions) that worked for her. Would it be good for everyone? Sister Riess doesn't think so. Could it be good for someone? Sister Riess things it might.

Here (emphases added): "The Lord commanded: 'Go ye out from among the wicked. Save yourselves. Be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.' A critical element in observing this commandment is to 'remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.' ... It is a day to partake of the sacrament, a day 'to pay [our] devotions unto the Most High,'  a day of 'fasting and prayer,'   a day to offer our time, talent, and means in service to our God and our fellowmen,  a day to '[confess our] sins [to our] brethren, and before the Lord.'  It is also a good day to pay our tithes and fast offerings, a day to be marked by sincere sacrifice of the pursuits and pleasures of the world. It is a day to keep the Sabbath covenant,  a day of 'rejoicing and prayer,'  a day of 'cheerful hearts and countenances.'"

 

Here (emphasis added): "Because the Sabbath is a holy day, it should be reserved for worthy and holy activities. Abstaining from work and recreation is not enough. In fact, those who merely lounge about doing nothing on the Sabbath fail to keep the day holy. In a revelation given to Joseph Smith in 1831, the Lord commanded: 'That thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High' (D&C 59:9–10). In harmony with this revelation, Church members attend sacrament meeting each week. Other Sabbath-day activities may include praying, meditating, studying the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets, writing letters to family members and friends, reading wholesome material, visiting the sick and distressed, and attending other Church meetings."

 

Here: "The Lord has given the Sabbath day for your benefit and has commanded you to keep it holy. Honoring the Sabbath day includes attending all your Church meetings. Go to sacrament meeting prepared to worship the Lord and partake worthily of the sacrament. During sacrament meeting, be reverent and willing to learn. Refrain from activities that would distract you or others during this sacred meeting. Be on time for your meetings. As you do these things, you invite the Spirit of the Lord to be with you."

Most latter-day saints distinguish between sins of omission and sins of commission. No one can do everything. Good, Better, Best and all that. I get that Sunday Activity is a huge component of worship and we receive lots of counsel on how best to observe the Sabbath. At the same time, for Sister Riess (and other's as expressed in this thread), her Church activity was hampering her spiritual development in other ways. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. In doing so, we will fall short, and we sometimes have to focus more on certain areas than others. Jana took a year long break from actively working in one part of the kingdom to work on another part.

[Ahab]

The truth is always off-putting.

No, not really, except for someone who doesn't really want to know what the truth is.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

Repeat this in your mind: I am going to ignore [so and so]. ( Just think about who you want to ignore)

That should do it.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

The truth is always off-putting. Anyway, you may not have to worry about my style much longer because I've come to realize no matter how a defender of the Church has framed his or her arguments on this board, there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith. So I'm persuaded it's best to just ignore certain individuals (I encourage them to ignore me as well) because trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort. I'm also sure those on the other side are just as frustrated as I am that they haven't been able to convince me to begin to doubt the Church. So no hard feelings, but enough is enough.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

Click your name at the top right. Click my settings. Click ignore preferences.

[Bobbieaware]

No, not really, except for someone who doesn't really want to know what the truth is.

Repeat this in your mind: I am going to ignore [so and so]. ( Just think about who you want to ignore)

That should do it.

Of course I agree with your first statement. But I thought there was some way to put other board participants on something called "ignore." But perhaps I misunderstood others when they spoke of putting someone they didn't want to deal with "on ignore." But if no such app exists, I will try very hard to not respond to posts from former believers and hope they will be kind enough to return me the favor.

[Bobbieaware]

Click your name at the top right. Click my settings. Click ignore preferences.

So I wasn't imagining things. Thanks.

[HappyJackWagon]

The truth is always off-putting. Anyway, you may not have to worry about my style much longer because I've come to realize no matter how a defender of the Church has framed his or her arguments on this board, there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith. So I'm persuaded it's best to just ignore certain individuals (I encourage them to ignore me as well) because trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort. I'm also sure those on the other side are just as frustrated as I am that they haven't been able to convince me to begin to doubt the Church. So no hard feelings, but enough is enough.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

You tend to make a lot of absolute statements which is off-putting and shuts down discussion. Here are a few examples from just this post.

 

"The truth is always off-putting."  No, not really. Sometimes it's the messenger and not the message. I don't mean that to be rude nor am I aiming it at you.

 

"there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith."  How could you possibly know that?

 

"trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort".  Again, a very absolute conclusion.

 

"enough is enough".   How does someone engage thoughtfully with this kind of attitude?

 

I'm not saying this to be rude. You have a valuable perspective and are very knowledgeable but sometimes its helpful to recognize when a communications approach isn't working. Sometimes a different approach, saying the same things will yield better results.

[jkwilliams]

The truth is always off-putting. Anyway, you may not have to worry about my style much longer because I've come to realize no matter how a defender of the Church has framed his or her arguments on this board, there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith. So I'm persuaded it's best to just ignore certain individuals (I encourage them to ignore me as well) because trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort. I'm also sure those on the other side are just as frustrated as I am that they haven't been able to convince me to begin to doubt the Church. So no hard feelings, but enough is enough.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

 

No frustration here, and I certainly am not trying to get you or anyone else to doubt the church. 

[Ahab]

So I wasn't imagining things. Thanks.

Oh so you wanted technology to remove them from your view.

I can ignore people without that technology.

[jkwilliams]

You tend to make a lot of absolute statements which is off-putting and shuts down discussion. Here are a few examples from just this post.

 

"The truth is always off-putting."  No, not really. Sometimes it's the messenger and not the message. I don't mean that to be rude nor am I aiming it at you.

 

"there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith."  How could you possibly know that?

 

"trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort".  Again, a very absolute conclusion.

 

"enough is enough".   How does someone engage thoughtfully with this kind of attitude?

 

I'm not saying this to be rude. You have a valuable perspective and are very knowledgeable but sometimes its helpful to recognize when a communications approach isn't working. Sometimes a different approach, saying the same things will yield better results.

 

I have used the ignore function very sparingly because, as you say, it's usually a failure of communication on my part or theirs, and it can usually be resolved. 

[ttribe]

The truth is always off-putting. Anyway, you may not have to worry about my style much longer because I've come to realize no matter how a defender of the Church has framed his or her arguments on this board, there appears to not be even a single instance of a formerly-believing critic who has been persuaded to renew their faith. So I'm persuaded it's best to just ignore certain individuals (I encourage them to ignore me as well) because trying to do otherwise has proved to be an utter waste of time and effort. I'm also sure those on the other side are just as frustrated as I am that they haven't been able to convince me to begin to doubt the Church. So no hard feelings, but enough is enough.

A technical question: I believe there's a way to put individual board participants on "ignore." I'd like to know how to do it.

 

Since Bobbieaware has me on "Ignore", can someone point out where I claimed to be a "formerly-believing critic?"

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Yes I have met Sister Reiss.

If goes contrary to commandment then it won't take them closer to the divine. It is by divine mandate that we gather regularly to partake of the sacrament, enjoy communal fasting, and bear testimony.

Disciples, prophets, and even Christ have a habit of calling people disregarding commandments "foolish," the scriptural equivalent of misguided and dumb.

So Abraham taking Isaac to sacrifice (against the commandments), or Nephi killing Laban (against the commandments) were both foolish right? When Jesus went off for an extended period to fast and pray in the wildness, that was foolish? I'd say we should allow ourselves and others a little latitude to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the best way that we can. We should seek counsel from the scriptures and the brethren but above all we should follow the spirit, and do the best that we can.

[Bobbieaware]

OK, I've begun to put some on "ignore." I left open the option for them to leave me a personal message iin the event they just can't stand the pressure and feel their heads are going to explode if they don't get something off their chest. No hard feelings, but my constitution will do better without the agita

[jkwilliams]

Since Bobbieaware has me on "Ignore", can someone point out where I claimed to be a "formerly-believing critic?"

 

I'm guessing that was a reference to me.

[HappyJackWagon]

OK, I've begun to put some on "ignore." I left open the option for them to leave me a personal message iin the event they just can't stand the pressure and feel their heads are going to explode if they don't get something off their chest. No hard feelings, but my constitution will do better without the agita

Did I make the cut?

 

BTW- "No hard feelings" is similar to saying "Bless your heart" or "No offense, but...". So it's hard to see how it could create warm fuzzies.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

So Abraham taking Isaac to sacrifice (against the commandments), or Nephi killing Laban (against the commandments) were both foolish right? When Jesus went off for an extended period to fast and pray in the wildness, that was foolish? I'd say we should allow ourselves and others a little latitude to live the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the best way that we can. We should seek counsel from the scriptures and the brethren but above all we should follow the spirit, and do the best that we can.

That is not entirely accurate- there is a reason that Nephi went into great detail concerning the whole episode, and didn't just say "I killed him, and we got the plates."

[ALarson]

OK, I've begun to put some on "ignore." I left open the option for them to leave me a personal message iin the event they just can't stand the pressure and feel their heads are going to explode if they don't get something off their chest. No hard feelings, but my constitution will do better without the agita

So you're putting people on ignore, but allowing them to still contact you if they just absolutely cannot stand the pressure of being ignored by you?  Got it, and no hard feelings.

[ttribe]

I'm guessing that was a reference to me.

 

Well, in that case, she's dead on, you evil wolf-in-sheep's-clothing!

[jkwilliams]

So you're putting people on ignore, but allowing them to still contact you if they just absolutely cannot stand the pressure of being ignored by you?  Got it, and no hard feelings.

 

I just think she got a little heated up, and if she needs to ignore some of us to not be frustrated anymore, that's OK. 

[ALarson]

I just think she got a little heated up, and if she needs to ignore some of us to not be frustrated anymore, that's OK. 

Agreed.

[The Nehor]

OK, I've begun to put some on "ignore." I left open the option for them to leave me a personal message iin the event they just can't stand the pressure and feel their heads are going to explode if they don't get something off their chest. No hard feelings, but my constitution will do better without the agita

I really do think this timeshare would be awesome for you and your family. Please do not ignore me.

[williamsmith]

The OP has a point and is correct.

 

But, there are "sometimes" when taking a break can be the best thing to refresh, to heal, etc.

We thus would need to be very careful we are only doing it when absolutely necessary, and it's something between us and the Lord.

[smac97]

The OP has a point and is correct.

 

But, there are "sometimes" when taking a break can be the best thing to refresh, to heal, etc.

We thus would need to be very careful we are only doing it when absolutely necessary, and it's something between us and the Lord.

 

I'm quite willing to concede that matters of faith and religious observance are "between us and the Lord."  But when a person A) goes beyond himself/herself and the Lord and B) openly encourages other Latter-day Saints to take a course of action which is C) contrary to the counsel and commandments given in scripture and through modern prophets and apostles, particularly where D) the issue at hand is extremely important (like, say, Sabbath observance, activity in the Church, etc.), then all of that generates some real concern.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[daz2]

I haven't read the most of the comments.  According to one study, more than  60% of those raised as Latter-day Saints take a "sabbatical"--become inactive--for at least one year.  A majority of those cease believing, as well as attending.  Yet, a majority of those who take a sabbatical, or become inactive and even lose belief, eventually return.  So that about 70% of those born and raised LDS die as Latter-day Saints.  That is a higher retention rate than any other religion, except the Amish (who have about a 90% retention rate).  Of course, most LDS who drop out do not necessarily do it with the intent of returning, or of just taking a break.  Many drop out with the intent of never returning (but do anyway).  Who am I to judge the reasons why some distance themselves for a time.  I simply rejoice that they return.  And if they are reinvigorated, so much the better.  And if a person decides to drop out for a time--like a temporary separation in a marriage--to reevaluate their feelings about the church, who am I to tell them they are wrong.  That is between them and their Maker.

[why me]

Well, I have been on 'leave' from the lds church for  39 years. Quite a long time. I know from experience that a one year vacation would mean a much more lengthly vacation after that year. Hard to come back. It seems that this woman took it all too seriously. Some people are perfectionists and such people can feel rather exhausted. However, the nature of the work of giving charity to the needy and helping one's fellow sisters should not be life draining. Also, this woman can be asked to be released. No shame in that and then just attend church. No problem.