Traffic Jams Of Joy

[mormonnewb]

Have you read Russell Stevenson's book yet?

 

Sorry that I didn't answer earlier.  I bought his book and downloaded it to my Kindle MONTHS ago when you first suggested it.  I eagerly skipped ahead to the section where he discusses the 1978 announcement and read it with great interest.  And then apparently, an anvil fell on my head because I can't remember a darn thing about it.  I've just assumed that his contemporaneous reports of the saints' reaction didn't completely obliterate my THEORY about the more likely reaction because I think I would have remembered being dead wrong (it happens so rarely ...  ).  Later tonight, I'll pull out my Kindle to see how well I remember forgetting it.

 

P.S.  I am not making fun of Russell Stevenson.  I am a HUGE fan of his work.  I love his podcast (I seem to retain more by listening than reading these days).  And I am genuinely impressed in his interest in this topic (I also have his book on Elijah Abel).  He's on my bucket list of "cool Mormons" to meet in my travels.

[MorningStar]

I don't remember what happened because I was three, but I looked at this thread to see why you like traffic jams. 

[Nevo]

I have just been skeptical of reports of downright euphoria.  Of course, I might be guilty of some "misremembering" myself as I've probably conflated Mitt Romney's debilitating crying fit with milder expressions of happiness from other saints.

 

I don't blame you for taking such accounts with a grain of salt. Mitt may or may not have pulled over to the side of the road that day. There's no way to know—although, given his father's strong support for civil rights, I don't find his account intrinsically improbable. I suspect he was anxious to see the policy change.

 

Some accounts likely have been exaggerated, though. At the recent Mormon History Association conference, Matt Harris, one of the editors of the forthcoming book, The Mormon Church and Blacks: A Documentary History, provided an example of this. Mark E. Peterson's daughter, in her biography of her father, quoted him as saying: "I was delighted to know that a new revelation had come from the Lord. I felt the fact of the revelation’s coming was more striking than the decision itself. On the telephone I told President Kimball that I fully sustained both the revelation and him one hundred percent." Contemporary records, however, indicate that his actual response was (I'm paraphrasing), "if that's the decision, then I won't oppose it." Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Nevo

[Calm]

Yes, I agree.  Black members (all six of them) were probably VERY excited about the revelation.  

The friend was white.

[readstoomuch]

Every one was happy. The mall where I was working was buzzing with people were talking about. A white guy hugged me and decided to go on a mission that day. This is very much like a thread from some months back. I wasn't happy about the ban the day before and I am not now. We were very happy to see it go. I'm just not sure we can ever make it sound good enough or that you believe us when we do talk about it. So, will see how it goes this time.

[Calm]

I have no doubt that not everyone was euphoric at the time---I have never used that word I believe to describe my own family's reaction or friends even though all of my immediate family were quite happy about it and even my grandparents weren't negative about it (more or less a quiet "that is quite nice for them").  My mother was probably the most excited (though I wasn't with all of my family at the time), but then my family is not the kind that get very excited about much.  My engagement was something like "great news, now let me go back to sleep" from my parents.  My own reaction to the lifting of the ban as far as I remember was one of satisfaction, relief and excitement for the saints who could now go to the temple (I had not gone myself yet so it was more abstract at the time) and that may or may not have been expressed in tears just because that happens to me, but I was more excited I believe when single and married to nonmembers women were given the chance to go to the temple because I had a dear friend who needed this very much at the time plus I had a great aunt who had suffered a lifetime of unfulfilled desire to attend and instead got to endure patronizing from her sisters (which was always shocking to me because she had given up the chance of getting married and a major career to take care of the family), thus it was a much more personal experience for me.  While I had black friends, I didn't personally know any in the Church before the ban as more than a passing acquaintance so it was harder to connect with.

 

OTOH, I am positive I would have remembered if anyone had a negative reaction to the ban lifting as that would have struck me as quite racist.

Edited July 20, 2015 by calmoriah

[cinepro]

Once again, my contention is not that white Mormons were vicious racists who become enraged by the news on June 8, 1978.  I'm not sure why I can't make that point clearly enough.  I'm simply suggested that PERHAPS it wasn't as momentous of an occasion as people remember that it was almost 40 years later.  By the way, that is not unusual.  None of us remember things EXACTLY as they occurred and we tend to view past events with "rose-colored glasses" (by the way, the fact that I didn't make up this expression should lend some credence to the fact that this is a fairly common phenomenon).

 

I'm simply suggesting that it's possibly the case that this is one of those times.  Either that, or some of you need to get those hankies ready for OD3 and OD4

 

I think the problem is that you're seeing an incongruence where this is none. Church Members' pre-1978 acceptance (and even support) for the ban could have been based on many things other than racism (faith in leaders probably being the primary factor). 

 

It would be like if the Church announced tomorrow that we were going to a 2 hour block.  I'm sure you would see the same "traffic jams of joy", and decades from now it might seem odd that on July 20, 2015 Mormons seemed content with three hours of Church on Sunday, yet expressed so much joy when it was reduced to two.  That doesn't mean we're all hypocrites right now for accepting the three hour block. 

 

Apologies in advance if it's a bad analogy.

Edited July 20, 2015 by cinepro

[Bernard Gui]

This is an issue that I'd really like to get behind us once and for all.  To be clear, I am NOT interested in discussing the rationale/righteousness/justice of the racial priesthood/temple ban.  I simply want to get clear on FACTS surrounding the announcement of the ban's end on June 8, 1978.  The common lore is that there was great celebration resulting in, among other things, traffic jams of joy as motorists pulled over to the side of the road and wept uncontrollably.

 

That reaction seems completely illogical, given that on June 7, 1978, most Mormons were perfectly fine with the ban.  Why would the reversal of a policy that most people supported 24 hours earlier result in such unmitigated joy?  Did Utah erupt in traffic jams of joy when Mitt Romney LOST the 2012 Presidential election?  Of course not.  They wanted him to WIN, so when that didn't happen, people celebrated.  On June 7, 1978, most Mormons would have voted to sustain the priesthood/temple ban (at least, the REAL Mormons would have voted that way).  So why was their unrestrained celebration the day after they would have LOST in the June 7 mock election?

 

Perhaps, a more pertinent example is last month's historic Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality.  Most REAL Mormons do not support gay marriage.  So if someone told you in 2053 that Mormons weeped tears of joy on "that long-awaited day" wouldn't you be just a little suspicious?  So can you understand my suspicion?

 

However, my suspicion can be overcome.  If someone ... anyone ... Bueller ... can point me to a single source from June of 1978 that mentions just a fender bender of joy, I will reconsider my position.  And by "from June of 1978," I'm NOT talking about someone writing in 2004 about what they remember from June of 1978.  I am already convinced that many people REMEMBER these spontaneous parties that broke out all over Utah.  It would just be nice to read ONE report of someone reporting it as it ACTUALLY happened.

Sister Gui were approaching Independence, Missouri,  just before the transmission in our Plymouth station wagon gave out on a move from Rockford, Illinois, to Tacoma, Washington, to visit my parents in New Mexico, when we heard the news over the radio. We stopped the car, embraced, and cried tears of joy and gratitude and for the witness of the Spirit that it was the Lord's will.  We immediately thought of our good friends, a mixed race couple in Rockford, who for years had prayerfully and patiently hoped the day would come so they could be sealed in the temple. And later we confirmed that our old friends back in Rockford were equally affected, and rejoiced for our mixed-race couple friends. And then the excitement of my old friends in Los Alamos as we later greeted each other and talked about what had just been announced. I suppose that that doesn't constitute your traffic jam and it didn't happen in Utah, but we are both BYU grads and had lived in Utah for a number of years.  And it is a true account of what happened when we first heard the news.

 

It is like the moment I heard of JFK's assassination as I was walking across the campus of Los Alamos High School, heading for lunch, when the principal announced over the PA that the President had been killed. And I thought it was a prank until I went into the cafeteria and saw that everyone was crying. And that night at Robert Rigg's home where 5 of us friends watched the tribute to President Kennedy and I heard for the first time Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings and the slow movement of Beethoven's 7th Symphony played by the Boston Symphony in honor of the dead President.

 

And the morning of 9/11 when I walked into the office at Rogers High School on my way to teach my classes and the TV behind the secretary's desk had the videos of the terrorist attack on the

Twin Towers, and everyone in the office was crying, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

 

 

 

Yes, those were momentous days that are etched in detail in my memory.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[cinepro]

Spencer Kimball left one of the most extensive and important collections of personal journals in the Church's history. They do as much to define his ministry as Wilford Woodruff's journals define his own 19th century ministry. Edward Kimball used Spencer's journals as source for the two wonderful biographical volumes on President Kimball's life. The second, Lengthen Your Stride, is the volume about Spencer's Church presidency and has an entire section devoted to the priesthood revelation, including President Kimball's struggles prior to the revelation, his work with the 12 and the other general authorities for consensus and unity, and the reaction of church members and media when the revelation was announced. Edward L. Kimball is an excellent scholar and historian and I think his work in Lengthen Your Stride is a must-read for anyone wishing to understand that entire episode.

 

I have the PDF of that book, but it won't let me cut and paste, so here's some hand-typed references:

 

 

 

The news brought nearly universal rejoicing among members, both because of the extension of blessings to worthy families who had been denied them, but also because it illustrated in dramatic fashion the Church teaching that revelation continues to the present.  As the news spread through Utah and beyond, people embraced and cried and rejoiced.  As with such events as Pearl Harbor and the John F. Kennedy assassination, Latter-day Saints remember where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

For Latter-day Saints who had grown up with racial prejudices, the revelation came as a shock.  But there was no schism.  Ultraconservative Mormons who might have protested tended to have strong commitment to obedience, and they did not object publicly.  One white member had made his position clear for years: if blacks ever received the priesthood, "that's the day I walk out the door."  The Sunday after the announcement, he showed up at church, explaining, "A lot of people didn't expect to see me here, but they never gave me any credit for growing up."  Jokes about blacks in the Church betrayed some uneasiness among the rank and file, but such stories soon died out. 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Within a few days of the announcement President Kimball received more than a hundred letters from members expressing elation and gratitude.  He received letters of appreciation from non-members, too, including a telegram from President Carter.  He received about 30 negative letters, nearly all from non-Mormons, mostly calling him a fraud in claiming revelation or a traitor to his race.

 

Lengthen Your Stride - Working Draft,  Chapter 23

Edited July 21, 2015 by cinepro

[ttribe]

OTOH, I am positive I would have remembered if anyone had a negative reaction to the ban lifting as that would have struck me as quite racist.

 

I suspect such reactions were very limited and isolated.  I know of one example from my mission (I was serving in Kentucky at the time) of a male member of the Church who hadn't been back to Church since the day of the announcement (I was serving there in 1992, so he'd been away for a long time).  But, he was one guy.  Certainly not indicative of any widespread attitudes.

[Storm Rider]

THANK YOU!  Not exactly traffic jams of joy, but it appears that there were some members who were very happy about the news.

 

And once again, I have never suggested that the saints were DISPLEASED with the news.  I have just been skeptical of reports of downright euphoria.  Of course, I might be guilty of some "misremembering" myself as I've probably conflated Mitt Romney's debilitating crying fit with milder expressions of happiness from other saints.

 

Newb, for a more sincere response to your question, I cannot provide anything other than my own experience.  I was serving a mission in France at the time of the announcement.  Each missionary team/apartment was sent a telegram sharing the news with each missionary.  In the city I was serving there were three other missionaries and the telegram was read out loud so that we all heard it at the same time.  It was a very sweet experience with great expressions of joy.  I do not recall that anyone of us four missionaries cried, but we celebrated for a few minutes and then we knelt down on our knees to thank our Father in Heaven for such a great blessing. 

[mormonnewb]

Newb, for a more sincere response to your question, I cannot provide anything other than my own experience.  I was serving a mission in France at the time of the announcement.  Each missionary team/apartment was sent a telegram sharing the news with each missionary.  In the city I was serving there were three other missionaries and the telegram was read out loud so that we all heard it at the same time.  It was a very sweet experience with great expressions of joy.  I do not recall that anyone of us four missionaries cried, but we celebrated for a few minutes and then we knelt down on our knees to thank our Father in Heaven for such a great blessing. 

 

By the way, I am less skeptical about genuine joy on the part of missionaries because I believe their situation with relation to the ban was far different than the average member, in say, Ketchum, Idaho.  Many missionaries (particularly those in, say, the American south) were trying to navigate around the ban every day.  The freedom to teach the Gospel that you so love to anyone would probably be enough to make someone like me cry.  And even for missionaries serving in areas with little or no black prospects, it must have been a relief to be free from trying to explain the ban to investigators who heard "from a friend of a friend that those Mormons are racist."

 

The average member going about his or her daily life and not having friends affected by it, nor fielding questions about the ban, would likely feel just like Calmoriah stated so perfectly: "Good for them!"  And, by the way, that is just how I would feel when I learn that the Church is building a temple in, say, Uruguay (just picked a country out a hat, okay?).  I'm happy that these people will now have the benefit of their own temple, but it isn't cause to break out the sparkling cider either.  I simply think, "Good for them!"  And then I go back to trading clever insults with The Nehor on this board (hypothetically speaking, of course).

[ERayR]

By the way, I am less skeptical about genuine joy on the part of missionaries because I believe their situation with relation to the ban was far different than the average member, in say, Ketchum, Idaho.  Many missionaries (particularly those in, say, the American south) were trying to navigate around the ban every day.  The freedom to teach the Gospel that you so love to anyone would probably be enough to make someone like me cry.  And even for missionaries serving in areas with little or no black prospects, it must have been a relief to be free from trying to explain the ban to investigators who heard "from a friend of a friend that those Mormons are racist."

 

The average member going about his or her daily life and not having friends affected by it, nor fielding questions about the ban, would likely feel just like Calmoriah stated so perfectly: "Good for them!"  And, by the way, that is just how I would feel when I learn that the Church is building a temple in, say, Uruguay (just picked a country out a hat, okay?).  I'm happy that these people will now have the benefit of their own temple, but it isn't cause to break out the sparkling cider either.  I simply think, "Good for them!"  And then I go back to trading clever insults with The Nehor on this board (hypothetically speaking, of course).

 

Just so you know Ketchum, Idaho is basically an extension of Southern California(right around Hollywood) and the Bay Area minus the Southern Cal. climate.  Full of Valley girls(male and female).

[mormonnewb]

 

 

Sister Gui were approaching Independence, Missouri,  just before the transmission in our Plymouth station wagon gave out on move from Rockford, Illinois, to Tacoma, Washington, to visit my parents in New Mexico, when we heard the news over the radio. We stopped the car, embraced, and cried tears of joy and gratitude and the witness of the Spirit that it was the Lord's will.  We immediately thought of our good friends, a mixed race couple in Rockford, who for years had prayerfully and patiently hoped the day would come so they could be sealed in the temple. And later we confirmed that our old friends back in Rockford were equally affected, and rejoiced for our mixed-race couple friends. And then the excitement of my old friends in Los Alamos as we later greeted each other and talked about what had just been announced. I suppose that that doesn't constitute your traffic jam and it didn't happen in Utah, but we are both BYU grads and had lived in Utah for a number of years.  And it is a true account of what happened when we first heard the news.

 

I believe your account.  So tell me this -- what was your thought about the ban on June 7, 1978?  Had you also been praying and patiently waiting for it to end?  In that case, your tears make perfect sense.  That's what I usually do when the Lord answers one of my prayers.

 

But was this common state of Mormons in 1978?  They were all just on pins and needles waiting for the ban to end?  Certainly, that was the case for SOME Mormons.  Perhaps, they are the ones who shed the tears of joy.

 

Given that, I can see similar narratives following, say, the ordination of women.  Some of us will cry like babies upon the announcement.  And 40 years from that date, MormonnewbIV  will be online challenging member's recollections about their reactions to the news.

Edited July 21, 2015 by mormonnewb

[ERayR]

I believe your account.  So tell me this -- what was your thought about the ban on June 7, 1978?  Had you also been praying and patiently waiting for it to end?  In that case, your tears make perfect sense.  That's what I usually do when the Lord answers one of my prayers.

 

But was this common state of Mormons in 1978?  They were all just on pins and needles waiting for the ban to end?  Certainly, that was the case for SOME Mormons.  Perhaps, they are the ones who shed the tears of joy.

 

Given that, I can see similar narratives following, say, the ordination of women.  Some of us will cry like babies upon the announcement.  And 40 years from that date, MormonnewbIV  will be online challenging member's recollections about their reactions to the news.

 

You are certainly prone to offering choices of much hyperbole on either end of the spectrum.  Is there room for one to have feelings of lesser intensity?

[mormonnewb]

Just so you know Ketchum, Idaho is basically an extension of Southern California(right around Hollywood) and the Bay Area minus the Southern Cal. climate.  Full of Valley girls(male and female).

 

True, but I've noticed that it isn't the most popular place with the brothers.  In fact, the last time I was there in September, I accepted a FB challenge to find (and take pictures with) three African-Americans.  Needless to say, I lost that challenge (and I even cheated by trying to take a picture with an Italian family).

 

By the way, my point was simply that, unless personally affected by the lifting of the ban, it would be quite normal to be generally pleased with its lifting (but not necessarily, ecstatic about it).

[Calm]

  In the city I was serving there were three other missionaries and the telegram was read out loud so that we all heard it at the same time.

I think it might make a difference if one was with others when it was shared, especially if it was in a crowd.  Me, I was among nonmembers at work and they were clueless as to what it meant. Rather deflating. I can see if being different if it was talked about in a Utah mall and word was spreading among individual groups and a growing consciousness of what happened occurring.  Also honking while driving would be more likely to spread the excitement than just driving on a freeway out in California or New York where who knows where the next LDS was to share the news with.  

 

No cell phones to text each other either.

 

edited for bad typo...

Edited July 21, 2015 by calmoriah

[ERayR]

True, but I've noticed that it isn't the most popular place with the brothers.  In fact, the last time I was there in September, I accepted a FB challenge to find (and take pictures with) three African-Americans.  Needless to say, I lost that challenge (and I even cheated by trying to take a picture with an Italian family).

 

By the way, my point was simply that, unless personally affected by the lifting of the ban, it would be quite normal to be generally pleased with its lifting (but not necessarily, ecstatic about it).

 

I don't know why the "brothers" do not frequent Ketchum/Sun Valley.  The atmosphere is certainly Calif. and The "brothers" live there.  However, I have no idea and did not know your observation was the norm as I rarely visit the area(and it is only 70 miles from me).  I haven't been there in more than five years.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ERayR

[JAHS]

It was one of those days when you remember exactly what you were doing the day it happened; like the Kennedy assasination, landing on the moon, your first kiss.  Everyone knew the day would come sometime and it was exciting to be a part of that historical event. I don't remember anyone who was unhappy  about it. If they were they kept it to themselves.

Edited July 21, 2015 by JAHS

[carbon dioxide]

I think I was still in Star Wars mode at that time.  I was 8 years old.

[JLHPROF]

I know of a few people who refused to accept the change and were excommunicated.

Not many, but a few.

And that was long before my time.

[Bernard Gui]

I believe your account.  So tell me this -- what was your thought about the ban on June 7, 1978?  Had you also been praying and patiently waiting for it to end?  In that case, your tears make perfect sense.  That's what I usually do when the Lord answers one of my prayers.

 

But was this common state of Mormons in 1978?  They were all just on pins and needles waiting for the ban to end?  Certainly, that was the case for SOME Mormons.  Perhaps, they are the ones who shed the tears of joy.

 

Given that, I can see similar narratives following, say, the ordination of women.  Some of us will cry like babies upon the announcement.  And 40 years from that date, MormonnewbIV  will be online challenging member's recollections about their reactions to the news.

Seriously, newb, I feel you cheapen our experience, question our sincerity, and cast a dark net on members of the church at that time. Don't know why I bothered to respond.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

It was one of those days when you remember exactly what you were doing the day it happened; like the Kennedy assasination, landing on the moon, your first kiss.  Everyone knew the day would come sometime and it was exciting to be a part of that historical event. I don't remember anyone who wash unhappy  about it. If they were they kept it to themselves.

My experience precisely. I served as a missionary in Central America in the mid-60s and we dealt with the ban pretty much every day. I know from later conversations that many of my former companions rejoiced in the change and were happy for people they had taught in CA that were waiting and praying, too. It was a profound spiritual experience, one on which I hang my testimony of living prophets.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[Duncan]

My Mum was pregnant with me at the time, but in June of 1978 my parents and two older sibs drove out to the Cardston Alberta Temple to be sealed as a family, with a pregnant Mom and two screaming kids driving across Canada, let's just say my folks had other things on their minds!-just talking with Mumsie now and she really didn't know any black members and didn't recall any agitation to get it overturned. She said it was "good news" but didn't have any real effect here. She remembers it being very hot, I lept in her belly when we were at the Temple and she thought I was going to be born then!!!

[mormonnewb]

Seriously, newb, I feel you cheapen our experience, question our sincerity, and cast a dark net on members of the church at that time. Don't know why I bothered to respond.

To be clear, I stated that I believed your account ... TWICE. I went further to validate your story as very likely given the circumstances. In that validation, I made the assumption that you had fervently prayed for the end of the ban (an enlightened perspective indeed). And yet, YOU feel that I cheapened your experience, cast doubts on your sincerity and cast a dark net on you.

For once, I am going to be serious. How could I have possibly responded that would have been validating and affirming to your experience?