mormonnewb Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 This is an issue that I'd really like to get behind us once and for all. To be clear, I am NOT interested in discussing the rationale/righteousness/justice of the racial priesthood/temple ban. I simply want to get clear on FACTS surrounding the announcement of the ban's end on June 8, 1978. The common lore is that there was great celebration resulting in, among other things, traffic jams of joy as motorists pulled over to the side of the road and wept uncontrollably. That reaction seems completely illogical, given that on June 7, 1978, most Mormons were perfectly fine with the ban. Why would the reversal of a policy that most people supported 24 hours earlier result in such unmitigated joy? Did Utah erupt in traffic jams of joy when Mitt Romney LOST the 2012 Presidential election? Of course not. They wanted him to WIN, so when that didn't happen, people celebrated. On June 7, 1978, most Mormons would have voted to sustain the priesthood/temple ban (at least, the REAL Mormons would have voted that way). So why was their unrestrained celebration the day after they would have LOST in the June 7 mock election? Perhaps, a more pertinent example is last month's historic Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality. Most REAL Mormons do not support gay marriage. So if someone told you in 2053 that Mormons weeped tears of joy on "that long-awaited day" wouldn't you be just a little suspicious? So can you understand my suspicion? However, my suspicion can be overcome. If someone ... anyone ... Bueller ... can point me to a single source from June of 1978 that mentions just a fender bender of joy, I will reconsider my position. And by "from June of 1978," I'm NOT talking about someone writing in 2004 about what they remember from June of 1978. I am already convinced that many people REMEMBER these spontaneous parties that broke out all over Utah. It would just be nice to read ONE report of someone reporting it as it ACTUALLY happened. 2
jkwilliams Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I was a 13-year-old Scout returning from a backpacking trip in the Sierras when the announcement came over the radio in the Scoutmaster's car. We didn't pull over, and I don't remember any weeping, but we all cheered. It was a great moment, and one I will always remember. 3
ERayR Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 This is an issue that I'd really like to get behind us once and for all. To be clear, I am NOT interested in discussing the rationale/righteousness/justice of the racial priesthood/temple ban. I simply want to get clear on FACTS surrounding the announcement of the ban's end on June 8, 1978. The common lore is that there was great celebration resulting in, among other things, traffic jams of joy as motorists pulled over to the side of the road and wept uncontrollably. That reaction seems completely illogical, given that on June 7, 1978, most Mormons were perfectly fine with the ban. Why would the reversal of a policy that most people supported 24 hours earlier result in such unmitigated joy? Did Utah erupt in traffic jams of joy when Mitt Romney LOST the 2012 Presidential election? Of course not. They wanted him to WIN, so when that didn't happen, people celebrated. On June 7, 1978, most Mormons would have voted to sustain the priesthood/temple ban (at least, the REAL Mormons would have voted that way). So why was their unrestrained celebration the day after they would have LOST in the June 7 mock election? Perhaps, a more pertinent example is last month's historic Supreme Court ruling on marriage equality. Most REAL Mormons do not support gay marriage. So if someone told you in 2053 that Mormons weeped tears of joy on "that long-awaited day" wouldn't you be just a little suspicious? So can you understand my suspicion? However, my suspicion can be overcome. If someone ... anyone ... Bueller ... can point me to a single source from June of 1978 that mentions just a fender bender of joy, I will reconsider my position. And by "from June of 1978," I'm NOT talking about someone writing in 2004 about what they remember from June of 1978. I am already convinced that many people REMEMBER these spontaneous parties that broke out all over Utah. It would just be nice to read ONE report of someone reporting it as it ACTUALLY happened. The members were willing to support the ban while in effect but were happy when it was lifted and all were now allowed the blessings of the priesthood. Yes they were happy enough to celebrate.
Popular Post Nevo Posted July 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 20, 2015 Some of the contemporary reaction to the lifting of the ban can be found in this Sunstone article: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/011-11-15.pdf 6
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted July 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 20, 2015 Absolutely not. All the Mormons I know immediately went home and dressed in white sheets over their heads and began to run up and down main street. There was gnashing of teeth, wailing, and all kinds of pain-filled sounds coming from them for at least twelve hours. Then they flew black balloons, covered all the mirrors, and walked bent over due to the great anguish they felt at the great burden the Lord had put upon them. Yes, it was a day of infamy in the hearts of all Mormons. Don't believe different; ignore what people say. Hold to your opinion because that is "your truth" and nothing else matters. The only people stopping on the freeways were those that needed to clean off the brain matter from the roofs of their cars when their fellow passengers heads exploded. It is the God's honest truth. Hold to your guns and don't let anyone change your mind. 9
Gray Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) An an infant I reacted to the news with gurgling, wailing and gnashing of gums Edited July 20, 2015 by Gray 4
Calm Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 However, my suspicion can be overcome. If someone ... anyone ... Bueller ... can point me to a single source from June of 1978 that mentions just a fender bender of joy, I will reconsider my position. And by "from June of 1978," I'm NOT talking about someone writing in 2004 about what they remember from June of 1978. I am already convinced that many people REMEMBER these spontaneous parties that broke out all over Utah. It would just be nice to read ONE report of someone reporting it as it ACTUALLY happened.Have you read Russell Stevenson's book yet?
Calm Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Some of the contemporary reaction to the lifting of the ban can be found in this Sunstone article: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/011-11-15.pdfOut of points so
Scott Lloyd Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 This is an issue that I'd really like to get behind us once and for all. To be clear, I am NOT interested in discussing the rationale/righteousness/justice of the racial priesthood/temple ban. I simply want to get clear on FACTS surrounding the announcement of the ban's end on June 8, 1978. The common lore is that there was great celebration resulting in, among other things, traffic jams of joy as motorists pulled over to the side of the road and wept uncontrollably. Who has asserted anything about "traffic jams of joy"? CFR 2
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted July 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 20, 2015 The members were willing to support the ban while in effect but were happy when it was lifted and all were now allowed the blessings of the priesthood. Yes they were happy enough to celebrate.Much of the cause for celebration and/or elation was that we knew the directive came from God and was not the result of political pressure, protests, government coercion or anything of the like. 5
Calm Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Not contemporary, but if one wants to accuse Darius Gray of misremembering his own reaction and the friend with him on that day feel free not to read it: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19991218&id=_8kpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8ewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4892,4281127&hl=en Reported by Scott Lloyd btw. Second page, middle column, bottom for those too busy to read the whole article. 4
jkwilliams Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Much of the cause for celebration and/or elation was that we knew the directive came from God and was not the result of political pressure, protests, government coercion or anything of the like. I was just relieved and happy because no one in our family agreed with the ban in the first place. But then I come from a long line of heretics. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 I was a 13-year-old Scout returning from a backpacking trip in the Sierras when the announcement came over the radio in the Scoutmaster's car. We didn't pull over, and I don't remember any weeping, but we all cheered. It was a great moment, and one I will always remember.We've had our differences lately, but thank you for this honest recollection. You get a rep point. 2
jkwilliams Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 We've had our differences lately, but thank you for this honest recollection. You get a rep point. Thank you. I always try to be honest. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Not contemporary, but if one wants to accuse Darius Gray of misremembering his own reaction and the friend with him on that day feel free not to read it: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19991218&id=_8kpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8ewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4892,4281127&hl=en Reported by Scott Lloyd btw. Second page, middle column, bottom for those too busy to read the whole article.Thanks for posting this. Here's a digital version that may be a bit easier to read, although it doesn't have the art.
ttribe Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Who has asserted anything about "traffic jams of joy"? CFR My guess is mormonnewb is conflating the stories of hearing the announcement and the story Mitt Romney told about his personal reaction to the announcement: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7415.html.
Derl Sanderson Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Spencer Kimball left one of the most extensive and important collections of personal journals in the Church's history. They do as much to define his ministry as Wilford Woodruff's journals define his own 19th century ministry. Edward Kimball used Spencer's journals as source for the two wonderful biographical volumes on President Kimball's life. The second, Lengthen Your Stride, is the volume about Spencer's Church presidency and has an entire section devoted to the priesthood revelation, including President Kimball's struggles prior to the revelation, his work with the 12 and the other general authorities for consensus and unity, and the reaction of church members and media when the revelation was announced. Edward L. Kimball is an excellent scholar and historian and I think his work in Lengthen Your Stride is a must-read for anyone wishing to understand that entire episode. 2
halconero Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Side note while reading the Sunstone article, does anyone know when the church stopped doing temple work on Sunday?
mormonnewb Posted July 20, 2015 Author Posted July 20, 2015 My guess is mormonnewb is conflating the stories of hearing the announcement and the story Mitt Romney told about his personal reaction to the announcement: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7415.html. You're right. Mitt Romney was the first person that I heard tell that story. Obviously, I think it is possible that he "misremembered" that day.
mormonnewb Posted July 20, 2015 Author Posted July 20, 2015 Not contemporary, but if one wants to accuse Darius Gray of misremembering his own reaction and the friend with him on that day feel free not to read it: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19991218&id=_8kpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8ewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4892,4281127&hl=en Reported by Scott Lloyd btw. Second page, middle column, bottom for those too busy to read the whole article. Yes, I agree. Black members (all six of them) were probably VERY excited about the revelation. I also suspect that many of them disagreed with the ban on June 7th as well.
Popular Post Bobbieaware Posted July 20, 2015 Popular Post Posted July 20, 2015 It must be horrible going through life with a chip on one's shoulder the size of a Mack Truck wheel chock. 7
mormonnewb Posted July 20, 2015 Author Posted July 20, 2015 Some of the contemporary reaction to the lifting of the ban can be found in this Sunstone article: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/011-11-15.pdf THANK YOU! Not exactly traffic jams of joy, but it appears that there were some members who were very happy about the news. And once again, I have never suggested that the saints were DISPLEASED with the news. I have just been skeptical of reports of downright euphoria. Of course, I might be guilty of some "misremembering" myself as I've probably conflated Mitt Romney's debilitating crying fit with milder expressions of happiness from other saints. 1
jkwilliams Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 THANK YOU! Not exactly traffic jams of joy, but it appears that there were some members who were very happy about the news. And once again, I have never suggested that the saints were DISPLEASED with the news. I have just been skeptical of reports of downright euphoria. Of course, I might be guilty of some "misremembering" myself as I've probably conflated Mitt Romney's debilitating crying fit with milder expressions of happiness from other saints. FWIW, it was definitely euphoria in my Southern California ward. 4
mormonnewb Posted July 20, 2015 Author Posted July 20, 2015 It must be horrible going through life with a chip on one's shoulder the size of a Mack Truck wheel chock. Once again, my contention is not that white Mormons were vicious racists who become enraged by the news on June 8, 1978. I'm not sure why I can't make that point clearly enough. I'm simply suggested that PERHAPS it wasn't as momentous of an occasion as people remember that it was almost 40 years later. By the way, that is not unusual. None of us remember things EXACTLY as they occurred and we tend to view past events with "rose-colored glasses" (by the way, the fact that I didn't make up this expression should lend some credence to the fact that this is a fairly common phenomenon). I'm simply suggesting that it's possibly the case that this is one of those times. Either that, or some of you need to get those hankies ready for OD3 and OD4
Recommended Posts