A Walk In My Shoes

[Calm]

I thought this blog was worth sharing.  It gave me a few new things to think about especially the part below:
 
http://benschilaty.blogspot.com/2015/06/a-walk-in-my-shoes.html?m=1
 

I've heard a lot of people say, "Choosing to be single and celibate isn't that bad. It's just like any of the single women in the church who have never gotten married." But it is not the same at all. A single woman can get on her knees every night and plead with Heavenly Father to send her a righteous husband. And if she ever did get married her congregation would throw the biggest celebration for her. What about me? What am I supposed to pray for? What are the gay members of the church supposed to hope for? Am I supposed to pray to not be gay? I did that for years and years. I eventually stopped praying for that and prayed that God would just help me find one girl, just one girl that I could love. And that led to me feeling uncomfortable and making a few girls cry. I have not been actively dating for the last two years. You can tell me that I gave up too easily, that I should have had more faith, that I should keep trying, but I have felt so much happier these last two years. I have felt so much more like me. And I have no doubt that I'm living my life in a way that is pleasing to my Heavenly Parents.

I think his final solution is really one we all have to come to in our own way as we struggle to understand blessings that are missing in our lives that others have, such as health, family, financial security, etc.
 

Here's how I handle being gay and Mormon. Earlier I said that I chose option two, but the truth is that I really choose secret option five. I see five possibilities. The last path is one that I can't define and that I'm not even aware of. Paul wrote: "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him" (1 Cor 2:9). And Joseph Smith wrote: "Ye cannot behold with your natural eyes, for the present time, the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter, and the glory which shall follow after much tribulation" (D&C 58:3). To me it is clear. We just cannot conceive of what is to come with our natural eyes. My life is a testament of this. The best things that happen to me are things that I never could have predicted or planned whether it be my current living situation, random awesome jobs, sudden trips abroad or unexpected friends. I could share dozens of stories of things miraculously working out and working out in completely unexpected and perfect ways.

Paul continues in the next verses to teach that while our natural senses can't understand these things that God makes them known to us through His Spirit. Now, I'm not going to claim any great revelations, but I have felt time and time again that remaining an active participant in the church is the right thing for me. And even though I live alone and eat dinner by myself most nights, I feel so much joy and happiness. My life is good. It is really good. It's not the kind of life that I was taught to want, but it's the life I have and it's good.

I have an assurance that really great things are going to happen to me in my life. Things that I can't even imagine. I have a conviction that if I stay true to the principles that I believe that all will be well. I know that great things are coming because so many great things have already come. I try to live my life according to this verse penned by Joseph Smith: "Let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to the see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed" (D&C 123:17).

 

 

[Maestrophil]

I just always get stuck on that whole Law of Chastity thing...

 

I don't think Heavenly Father would ever tell someone that violating that law would be best for their happiness.  Would it be best for my happiness if I could violate several of the commandments that I find appealing to my natural self?  

 

I have not seen anything that compels me to think that homosexual sex will EVER be acceptable docterinally - in or out of "wedlock".

 

Long (centuries) have there been individuals who have lived faithful lives of celibacy placing all hope in Christ.  Monks, nuns, other spiritual leaders, homosexuals and unmarrieds.  I have great admiration for people who overcome their will in such a grand way for God.

[Storm Rider]

This short history of his experience reveals a faithful approach to life; one that we can all learn from.  Too often we focus so completely on obtaining something that it makes it impossible to attain.  I appreciate some of the Zen and/or Buddhist teachings that puts that which we desire aside and accept where we are and find happiness "here" at our present place in time. 

 

I remain convinced that this topic of SSA is more complex than any of us can really grasp, but I am also convinced that our Father in Heaven remains faithful to each of his children.  I don't know why some of God's children must go through such terrible trials, but they do.  Having SSA is not the only trial in this life, but it is acutely painful for the disciple of Christ that seeks to be faithful to God's teachings. 

 

Some day we may understand why the trials of all of God's children were so different and some so severe, but for now each of us must strive to have hope and faith.  He is our God and he is our creator.  In him is our peace and in him is found our joy.  Those that rebel against him and his teachings will know unimaginable pain such that it could be described as a lake of fire as some of the ancients called it.  Our choice is to remain faithful every day we wake up. 

[Maestrophil]

I also feel a need to add - I couldn't possibly fully grasp the pain, confusion, and fear of being a homosexual Mormon.  I feel deep sympathy for a struggle that I'm sure seems like a Gordian Knot of great proportions. 

[cinepro]

As more and more people come to understand what it is like to be a believing LDS who is gay, I suspect it will be harder to hold to the glib views that have been expressed by church members for so long.

 

The analogy to celibate heterosexual LDS has always struck me as especially odd.  Such people are not counseled to pray for a future day in which their attractions are eliminated or reversed, but instead for a day when their attractions will be fulfilled.  This is a very different situation.

[CA Steve]

As long as we continue to act as if the only difference between homosexual and heterosexual members is sexual attraction, we will continue to fail to grasp the depth of what it is we are asking and telling faithful gay members.

 

Not only are we telling them that they cannot ever marry a person to whom they are physically attracted, we follow that up with how they will be fundamentally different in the next life, in that they will no longer be gay. They are supposed to look forward to a future where they will be very different people and they are supposed to recognize that, in this life, a fundamental part of their make-up is a mistake or wrong or not natural and so forth. This isn't just about fixing sexual attraction, it is about telling people that in the next life they will be someone else because who they are now is wrong.

[Mystery Meat]

I just always get stuck on that whole Law of Chastity thing...

 

I don't think Heavenly Father would ever tell someone that violating that law would be best for their happiness.  Would it be best for my happiness if I could violate several of the commandments that I find appealing to my natural self?  

 

I have not seen anything that compels me to think that homosexual sex will EVER be acceptable docterinally - in or out of "wedlock".

 

Long (centuries) have there been individuals who have lived faithful lives of celibacy placing all hope in Christ.  Monks, nuns, other spiritual leaders, homosexuals and unmarrieds.  I have great admiration for people who overcome their will in such a grand way for God.

 

I don't think the writer said he was sexually active (and therefore not violating the Law of Chastity); quite the opposite. It was a touching and heart jerking piece about a trial I will never know, understand or comprehend. I applaud him for having courage to do what is right despite what the world, not to mention what his own body and mind, is telling him to do.

[Duncan]

In relation to this and other topics, I sometimes I wonder if we care about things that God doesn't care about, "It mattereth not"

[Jacob]

As long as we continue to act as if the only difference between homosexual and heterosexual members is sexual attraction, we will continue to fail to grasp the depth of what it is we are asking and telling faithful gay members.

 

Not only are we telling them that they cannot ever marry a person to whom they are physically attracted, we follow that up with how they will be fundamentally different in the next life, in that they will no longer be gay. They are supposed to look forward to a future where they will be very different people and they are supposed to recognize that, in this life, a fundamental part of their make-up is a mistake or wrong or not natural and so forth. This isn't just about fixing sexual attraction, it is about telling people that in the next life they will be someone else because who they are now is wrong.

I feel like this is a very true statement. I also believe that this is a fundamental flaw in many people's view of Heaven. Many believe that various aspects of who they are will change upon reaching Heaven.

[Bob Crockett]

All this is political correctness.

 

The reality is that in most stakes, there is quite a large contingent of gay members who are active in the Church.  Some are celibate, some are married with families.  Priesthood leaders spend some time counseling them.  Some slip up; many don't.  Some hold high positions in the Church.  I have known two.  I have also known long-time faithful members of the Church who have failed.  

 

I imagine that the circumstance is similar in Evangelical circles.  I have read some of James Dobson's writings and can see that is the case.

 

For each one of these active Saints there are Saints who choose to follow their desires, and then there is a smaller subset of those who criticize the Church about its position.  

 

What this suggests to me is that only the sinners have need of repentance.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Bob Crockett

[Calm]

What in the OP is political correctness?

 

I don't see anything in his blog or my comments that your comments contradict or clarify.

Edited July 8, 2015 by calmoriah

[Danzo]

As long as we continue to act as if the only difference between homosexual and heterosexual members is sexual attraction, we will continue to fail to grasp the depth of what it is we are asking and telling faithful gay members.

 

Not only are we telling them that they cannot ever marry a person to whom they are physically attracted, we follow that up with how they will be fundamentally different in the next life, in that they will no longer be gay. They are supposed to look forward to a future where they will be very different people and they are supposed to recognize that, in this life, a fundamental part of their make-up is a mistake or wrong or not natural and so forth. This isn't just about fixing sexual attraction, it is about telling people that in the next life they will be someone else because who they are now is wrong.

 

I look forward to the day when I am fundamentally different, when I have been purified by the atonement of Jesus Christ, the day that I will no longer desire sin.   I look forward to the change that will come when my attractions to people will be based on the pure love of Christ, not based on their physical appearance or gender.

[Jacob]

I look forward to the day when I am fundamentally different, when I have been purified by the atonement of Jesus Christ, the day that I will no longer desire sin. I look forward to the change that will come when my attractions to people will be based on the pure love of Christ, not based on their physical appearance or gender.

That person would not be you. That would be someone else. If I make it into heaven, I want to be me there. If I no longer desire sin, I want that to be because I have changed myself and not had anyone else change me. Physical attraction will always exist, and there is no soon in admiring beauty. My wife will be physically beautiful to me.

[Kenngo1969]

That person would not be you. That would be someone else. If I make it into heaven, I want to be me there. If I no longer desire sin, I want that to be because I have changed myself and not had anyone else change me. Physical attraction will always exist, and there is no soon in admiring beauty. My wife will be physically beautiful to me.

Christ is supposed to change people.  That's what the Atonement is all about.

 

Now, having said that, I know that some of the Brethren have said that homosexual feelings will change into heterosexual feelings after we're resurrected, and various people have chimed in and said that they don't want to be so changed.  I don't quite understand the rationale of clinging so tenaciously to the one thing we have left to give back to God that He didn't give us in the first place: our will.  Is it fair that God would ask someone to go through life with feelings that, if one is faithful, one will not be able to fulfill in this life?  No; no, it isn't.  But, then again, life isn't fair.  I've said this before, but it bears repeating. Notwithstanding what some of the Brethren have said, I don't know how God is going to sort out this, one of the most complicated aspects of complicated human relationships, in the next life.  While this certainly is easy for me to say because I'm straight, I can only have faith that He will, and that, if we remain faithful, however the Omnipotent, Omniscient, All-Loving Lord of the Universe sorts it out and makes it right, He won't have to tell any of us,  "I know you were expecting something more, or better, or at least ... different; and I know this means it sucks to be you, but, sorry.  This is the best I could do."

 

P.S.: Incidentally, the same principle holds true for wives who were the second (or whatever number) to be sealed to their husbands.  Such is the case for the bishop whom I served as his executive secretary for nearly three years.  His second wife is no shy, retiring, average-looking wallflower.  She is an amazing woman, inside and out, intellectually, spiritually, socially, and in most every other way. If anyone were to ask, in my hearing, "What do you suppose it'll be like for her ... being a second-class citizen as a second wife for eternity?" I would look at him something like this and ask, "Are you crazy? She doesn't deserve anything but the absolute best, and I have every expectation that the Lord of the Universe will give it to her, and will not shortchange her in any way."

Edited July 8, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Mystery Meat]

That person would not be you. That would be someone else. If I make it into heaven, I want to be me there. If I no longer desire sin, I want that to be because I have changed myself and not had anyone else change me. Physical attraction will always exist, and there is no soon in admiring beauty. My wife will be physically beautiful to me.

 

Thats a pretty silly thing to say. Essentially you are saying you define yourself by your sins. Sorry, but I don't. I define myself by the good choices I make AND through the Atonement. After all I covenant to "take His name upon" me.

[CA Steve]

I look forward to the day when I am fundamentally different, when I have been purified by the atonement of Jesus Christ, the day that I will no longer desire sin.   I look forward to the change that will come when my attractions to people will be based on the pure love of Christ, not based on their physical appearance or gender.

I don't know about you but I sincerely hope that, in the next life, my attraction to women is based in part on their appearance and the fact they are women. My wife of over 35 years is every bit as attractive  to me now as when we first met.

[Kenngo1969]

I look forward to the day when I am fundamentally different, when I have been purified by the atonement of Jesus Christ, the day that I will no longer desire sin.   I look forward to the change that will come when my attractions to people will be based on the pure love of Christ, not based on their physical appearance or gender.

 

 

That person would not be you. That would be someone else. If I make it into heaven, I want to be me there. If I no longer desire sin, I want that to be because I have changed myself and not had anyone else change me. Physical attraction will always exist, and there is no soon in admiring beauty. My wife will be physically beautiful to me.

Heaven forbid the Atonement should change us in any fundamental way!  I gotta say, I don't get that line of reasoning ... at all.  

[Danzo]

That person would not be you. That would be someone else. If I make it into heaven, I want to be me there. If I no longer desire sin, I want that to be because I have changed myself and not had anyone else change me. Physical attraction will always exist, and there is no soon in admiring beauty. My wife will be physically beautiful to me.

 

I don't believe it is possible to change oneself without help from Christ.  We Cannot save ourselves.

[Jacob]

I would use the phrase "works the change" in you. You are not instantly someone different, it is a process you participate in. If I am just changed, I do not want that, that is Satan's plan isn't it? Making people how they should be?

[Kenngo1969]

I'm not comparing my situation to that of anyone who is gay.  I can only speak to what I know.  The reality is that all of us face an array of baffling, perplexing, bewildering circumstances in this life that we did not necessarily choose that, for whatever reason, we cannot change (and I'm not necessarily talking about changing being gay: again, I can only speak to what I know).  

 

I have a physical disability and a psychiatric diagnosis.  There are a lot of things I've wanted to do that I cannot, and even when life isn't that bad, the psychiatric diagnosis tends to color my outlook.  I have vacillated between unemployment, underemployment, and "mis"-employment for the better part of the last twenty years.  I've always found it a challenge to fit in, at work, at school, socially, recreationally, in whatever arena of life have you.  I have three degrees: the more educated I've become, it seems the less useful I am.  It seems that I'm destined to use some of my strongest assets avocationally rather than vocationally.  I've successfully attracted the collective indifference of the female of the species, and I'm beginning to think that probably won't change: it has its advantages; I can eat what I want, when I want (within reason); subject to other constraints (e.g., work, if and when I can get it), I can set my own schedule, coming, going, and doing as I please (within reason); if I want to do something, watch something, et cetera, I can do it or watch it without worrying about what "she" might think of me for wanting to do it or to watch it; I have sole possession of the remote control; and so on.  "But, Ken," you might ask, "Wouldn't you give up all of those 'advantages' to 'become one' with someone?"  Yes; but I'm a practical guy: if I can't have that, I'll take what I can get.

 

I can tell a potential employer or a potential mate, "Too bad!  You don't know what you're missing."  But I cannot force anyone to use his or her agency to hire me or to pursue a relationship with me, nor would I want to.  And try as I might, there's only so much I can do about the physical disability, about the psychiatric diagnosis, or to bend the universe to my will.  There are a lot of things in this life that I'd like to be able to see, to do, and to experience that, for various reasons (some of which are within my control but many of which are not) I will not be able to. Candidly, while I'm not going to do anything drastic, I do sometimes ask myself, in the immortal words of Melvin Udall, Jack Nicholson's character from the movie, As Good As It Gets, "What if this is as good as it gets?"  To borrow and slightly alter something the infamous Major Frank Burns, of M*A*S*H infamy, once said, "I believe in the sanctity of human life ... no matter how ugly or disgusting it gets!"  (He was talking about marriage.)  While, since I'm only in my mid-forties, I may have reached this point in my life earlier than normal, and while I doubt I'll ever really be ready to meet my Maker, I'm rapidly approaching the conclusion that whenever that time comes, as much as I will miss those I'll leave behind, I sure as heck ain't gonna fight it when it does come.

 

Even at its best, life is less than ideal: Even our most blissful moments often are intruded upon, marred by the weather, or by illness, by a sudden reversal of fortune, or any one of life's million other fickle vicissitudes.  Whether it's because we're gay (and perhaps, therefore, destined to remain celibate if we wish to remain faithful) or for a million other reasons, there's no getting around the fact that, often, this life simply sucks.

[Jacob]

We won't be changed, Christ would help us change

[Jacob]

Repeat, delete

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jacob

[Storm Rider]

As long as we continue to act as if the only difference between homosexual and heterosexual members is sexual attraction, we will continue to fail to grasp the depth of what it is we are asking and telling faithful gay members.

 

Not only are we telling them that they cannot ever marry a person to whom they are physically attracted, we follow that up with how they will be fundamentally different in the next life, in that they will no longer be gay. They are supposed to look forward to a future where they will be very different people and they are supposed to recognize that, in this life, a fundamental part of their make-up is a mistake or wrong or not natural and so forth. This isn't just about fixing sexual attraction, it is about telling people that in the next life they will be someone else because who they are now is wrong.

 

This is a very clumsy way of expressing LDS faith and teaching.  The OP provided a more exact description, which you have ignored completely demonstrating that you are still playing your agenda rather than actually engaging in the individual's faithful description of his situation:

 

"I have an assurance that really great things are going to happen to me in my life. Things that I can't even imagine. I have a conviction that if I stay true to the principles that I believe that all will be well. I know that great things are coming because so many great things have already come. I try to live my life according to this verse penned by Joseph Smith: "Let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to the see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed" (D&C 123:17)."

 

Where or how does your agenda relate to what this SSA individual stated?  You create a false dichotomy that has nothing in common with young man's faith and the teachings of the Gospel.  Why use a false dichotomy when this young man's words so eloquently explains the gospel to you?

[mfbukowski]

Are all Catholic priests gay?

 

Of course not.   And yet all have chosen celibacy for the glory of God.

 

Wouldn't it be great if we all had that kind of fortitude to stand for what you believe God wants of you?

[mfbukowski]

As more and more people come to understand what it is like to be a believing LDS who is gay, I suspect it will be harder to hold to the glib views that have been expressed by church members for so long.

 

The analogy to celibate heterosexual LDS has always struck me as especially odd.  Such people are not counseled to pray for a future day in which their attractions are eliminated or reversed, but instead for a day when their attractions will be fulfilled.  This is a very different situation.

It's a pity that we all can't do what the average Catholic priest does, don't you think?

 

Who has the greater commitment to God?

 

And Catholics have no belief in eternal marriage, so they have given up sexuality entirely from their lives and afterward.  Gone forever.

 

Could we do that?  That applies to nuns as well as priests.  No children, no promise of ever having them, no intimacy, effectively no family.  No "joy in your posterity" all because you love Christ and believe that is what he wants of you just to become closer to Him than the average person.

 

People with families go to heaven too, but they have given that all up just to be closer to Him for this lifetime.

 

I know for a fact that I could not do that because I faced that decision.  No way could I do that.

Edited July 9, 2015 by mfbukowski