mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 All this is political correctness. The reality is that in most stakes, there is quite a large contingent of gay members who are active in the Church. Some are celibate, some are married with families. Priesthood leaders spend some time counseling them. Some slip up; many don't. Some hold high positions in the Church. I have known two. I have also known long-time faithful members of the Church who have failed. I imagine that the circumstance is similar in Evangelical circles. I have read some of James Dobson's writings and can see that is the case. For each one of these active Saints there are Saints who choose to follow their desires, and then there is a smaller subset of those who criticize the Church about its position. What this suggests to me is that only the sinners have need of repentance.Not to mention our Catholic friends who choose the religious life.
Storm Rider Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 It's a pity that we all can't do what the average Catholic priest does, don't you think? Who has the greater commitment to God? And Catholics have no belief in eternal marriage, so they have given up sexuality entirely from their lives and afterward. Gone forever. Could we do that? That applies to nuns as well as priests. No children, no promise of ever having them, no intimacy, effectively no family. No "joy in your posterity" all because you love Christ and believe that is what he wants of you just to become closer to Him than the average person. People with families go to heaven too, but they have given that all up just to be closer to Him for this lifetime. I know for a fact that I could not do that because I faced that decision. No way could I do that. Thank you for making such an excellent point. I was reading an article today that discussed this topic from a Catholic perspective. The author's point was he was not a "gay" Catholic - first and foremost he wanted it recognized that he was a child of God, a man. His sexual inclinations were separate from him. Consequently, David Prosen, the author of the article, also said he is not defined by his SSA and does not claim to be gay. In response to his current position he has been bullied just as much or more than when he was bullied as a young man only it was members of the LGBQ community that was doing the bullying. 2
CA Steve Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) This is a very clumsy way of expressing LDS faith and teaching. The OP provided a more exact description, which you have ignored completely demonstrating that you are still playing your agenda rather than actually engaging in the individual's faithful description of his situation: "I have an assurance that really great things are going to happen to me in my life. Things that I can't even imagine. I have a conviction that if I stay true to the principles that I believe that all will be well. I know that great things are coming because so many great things have already come. I try to live my life according to this verse penned by Joseph Smith: "Let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to the see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed" (D&C 123:17)." Where or how does your agenda relate to what this SSA individual stated? You create a false dichotomy that has nothing in common with young man's faith and the teachings of the Gospel. Why use a false dichotomy when this young man's words so eloquently explains the gospel to you?Did you even bother to actually read the blog from the OP? He finishes with what is the most important paragraph his whole post. If you walked in my shoes for a day you would see me eat my meals alone. You would see me text and call people that I care about. You would see me listen to podcasts to keep me company. You would see me turn on music and dance while I put my dishes away. You would see me go to work and then spend time with friends in the evening. And you would see me come home alone and sit on my futon in silence. And even though I spent my entire day with other people, you would watch me feel sad that I was alone in my house. Then I'd pull out my scriptures and read a chapter or two and then sit and think about something that touched me. And then I'd sit on my bed and write in my journal and shed a tear or two as I write about how good my life is and how blessed I am. And I would mean every word. Then I'd slide off my bed and kneel on the floor and thank Heavenly Father for all the good things in my life. And you would watch me plead with Him that He would send us further light and knowledge and create more of a place for me and other gay Mormons in His church.Oh there is definitely an agenda here and until we move away from it we will continue to cause this kind of pain to our own. On edit. Wouldn't it be wonderful that instead of using the label SSM & SSA, we actually used a term that encompasses more fully who they actually are? How about if we just called them 'gay', instead of trying to force on them a label that is primarily sexual in content? I don't know about the others but I don't view myself as someone with OSA and in a OSM relationship. Edited July 9, 2015 by CA Steve 2
mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 One can be celibate and not alone or lonely.I did it for years. One does not have to have sex in order to evade loneliness, and indeed empty sex can cause loneliness.And why should we call people 'gay' who do not want that title?Whose business is it what sexual fantasies or temptations one has? 1
Storm Rider Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Did you even bother to actually read the blog from the OP? He finishes with what is the most important paragraph his whole post. Oh there is definitely an agenda here and until we move away from it we will continue to cause this kind of pain to our own. On edit. Wouldn't it be wonderful that instead of using the label SSM & SSA, we actually used a term that encompasses more fully who they actually are? How about if we just called them 'gay', instead of trying to force on them a label that is primarily sexual in content? I don't know about the others but I don't view myself as someone with OSA and in a OSM relationship. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we just called individuals what they themselves want to be called. In the case of Mr. Prosen, it is not gay; sorry to break that bit of news to you. Now, please explain who is forcing whom to use specific titles. This is the kind of agenda pushing that is constant with those with an agenda. Admit one thing; not everyone wants to be called GAY. You are exactly the type of bullying that Mr. Prosen was talking about. Yes, I read the entire article, as in every word. You obviously did not! Else you would not be pushing your agenda in exactly the way Prosen was talking about. Shock, another liberal has a intolerant rant about those who have the temerity to think differently then they demand. Geez, I get tired of seeing the same old intolerance from those who want to wear the tolerance badge. It is just incredibly, blindingly, predictable and unending. Force? Don't make me laugh. The quote came from the article entitled, "Bullied “Out of the Closet” and (Almost) Bullied Back In" found in Crisis Magazine, dated July 9, 2015. Edited July 9, 2015 by Storm Rider 1
Deborah Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 The point I think everyone is missing in this discussion is that in the next life, yes we will retain our personalities, but as we progress there pending resurrection we will learn as we do here that as we grow in spirituality our desires will change by the fact that we will want to put aside all worldly desires as they will no longer hold our interest. We won't be changed at once but by the time we are resurrected we will have the pure love of Christ and see others in a way not conceived here. I know over the years as my testimony has grown certain movies and interests no longer are desired and I have no inclination to participate in them. I think this is how our growth will be in the post mortal condition as we continue to move toward perfection, 1
ERayR Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 The point I think everyone is missing in this discussion is that in the next life, yes we will retain our personalities, but as we progress there pending resurrection we will learn as we do here that as we grow in spirituality our desires will change by the fact that we will want to put aside all worldly desires as they will no longer hold our interest. We won't be changed at once but by the time we are resurrected we will have the pure love of Christ and see others in a way not conceived here. I know over the years as my testimony has grown certain movies and interests no longer are desired and I have no inclination to participate in them. I think this is how our growth will be in the post mortal condition as we continue to move toward perfection, Certainly our perspectives tend to change.
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