A Reminder About President Packer's Funeral...

[cinepro]

Lest we forget...

 

When the family insists that several family members speak in a funeral, we hear about the deceased instead of about the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the comforting promises revealed in the scriptures. Now it’s all right to have a family member speak at a funeral, but if they do, their remarks should be in keeping with the spirit of the meeting.

I have told my Brethren in that day when my funeral is held, if any of them who speak talk about me, I will raise up and correct them. The gospel is to be preached. I know of no meeting where the congregation is in a better state of readiness to receive revelation and inspiration from a speaker than they are at a funeral. This privilege is being taken away from us because we don’t understand the order of things—the unwritten order of things—that relates to the administration of the Church and the reception of the Spirit.

Boyd K. Packer, The Unwritten Order of Things

[David13]

I want to keep this ready for my own funeral.

dc

[The Nehor]

Here is hoping Packer is resurrected to fulfill his promise, pops open his coffin, and stands up and denounces a speaker at his funeral.

 

Fingers crossed.

[jcake]

 While the gospel being preached is a wonderful thing, I think it is perfectly fine to allow the family to use the funeral as a time to reflect on the life of the deceased loved one.  Elder Packer certainly has the right to his opinions and preferences, of course.  I hope that people will do what is best for their circumstances in these situations, and not feel that one size must fit all.

[Garden Girl]

 While the gospel being preached is a wonderful thing, I think it is perfectly fine to allow the family to use the funeral as a time to reflect on the life of the deceased loved one.  Elder Packer certainly has the right to his opinions and preferences, of course.  I hope that people will do what is best for their circumstances in these situations, and not feel that one size must fit all.

 

I agree jcake... many of us have non-LDS family members who need to express some of their remembrances about the deceased rather than be preached at... a combination where we honor our doctrines of salvation, and include remembrances honors both LDS and non-LDS family members... and I believe doctrinal points will be better received if there are also fond remembrances of the person... 

 

GG

Edited July 5, 2015 by Garden Girl

[JAHS]

I understand Pres. Packer's desire; a missionay to the last. But the funeral is really for the family and friends; not the deceased. But, I am sure for the most part his wishes will be honored. 

[Rain]

When I was on my mission a member who we had eaten with the night before was struck by a car and died.

He had a high position in his company and a lot if good influence on those around him. The chapel, gym and surrounding rooms were packed, mostly my nonmembers.

It was one of the most spiritual meetings I have ever been too. His life was talked about, but the gospel was woven into the story just like was in his actual life. It was beautiful and it affected so many there who weren't members.

I suspect that is the type of funeral that President Packer wanted to have. It isn't an either or thing.

[Scott Lloyd]

Here is hoping Packer is resurrected to fulfill his promise, pops open his coffin, and stands up and denounces a speaker at his funeral.

 

Fingers crossed.

President Packer was under-appreciated for a number of things, including his wry, deadpan sense of humor.

 

That this statement, obviously meant with good-natured humor and obvious hyperbole, should now be taken so literally as to wave it posthumously in his face is an example of that.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Rain]

Lest we forget...

 

 

I keep coming back to this thread.  I don't ever remember hearing that quote before until the few weeks.  It was posted on another message board I visit  on a thread dealing with mormon funerals (among other things).  Through that and some other things said, it gave a dreary view of our funerals - they were portrayed as sermons to get new members.  

 

I'm curious where you found the quote.  Has it been making it's way around facebook? Or is it just more common knowledge than I was aware of?

[Thinking]

President Packer was under-appreciated for a number of things, including his wry, deadpan sense of humor.

 

That this statement, obviously meant with good-natured humor and obvious hyperbole, should now be taken so literally as to wave it posthumously in his face is an example of that.

 

Yet the part about about the funeral being an opportunity to preach the gospel comes straight from the Church Handbook of Instructions.

Funerals provide an important opportunity to teach the gospel and testify of the plan of salvation. They also provide an opportunity to pay tribute to the deceased. However, such tributes should not dominate a funeral service. Having large numbers of people share tributes or memories can make a funeral too long and may be inappropriate for a Church service. If family members want an extended time to share such memories, they may consider doing so in a special family gathering, separate from the funeral service. Link

[Scott Lloyd]

Yet the part about about the funeral being an opportunity to preach the gospel comes straight from the Church Handbook of Instructions.

I fully support what's in the handbook and the message that Elder/President Packer was trying to convey. I take it as wise counsel.

 

What I meant was that his remark about rising up at his funeral to correct his brethren was meant to be taken in a humorous, good-hearted vein, not as some bizarre threat. I think that for the most part it probably was taken the way it was intended.

 

Humor and hyperbole can sometimes be used to emphasize a point. I think that's what happened in this case.

[cinepro]

I keep coming back to this thread.  I don't ever remember hearing that quote before until the few weeks.  It was posted on another message board I visit  on a thread dealing with mormon funerals (among other things).  Through that and some other things said, it gave a dreary view of our funerals - they were portrayed as sermons to get new members.  

 

I'm curious where you found the quote.  Has it been making it's way around facebook? Or is it just more common knowledge than I was aware of?

 

I remember when the talk was given in the mid-90's; it was fairly well-publicized at the time.  The Elders Quorum in my ward even devoted two weeks of lessons to it.

 

The Deseret News covered it as well:

 

HEED UNWRITTEN ORDER, PRES. PACKER SAYS

Most the things mentioned in the talk are pretty benign (and missionary farewells were done away with), but for some reason his statement about funerals always seemed a little odd to me. I can see the logic behind his observation, but I think it was just worded poorly, and failed to acknowledge the benefit funerals are supposed to have for the attendants beyond learning about the gospel.

[Ahab]

I remember when the talk was given in the mid-90's; it was fairly well-publicized at the time. The Elders Quorum in my ward even devoted two weeks of lessons to it.

The Deseret News covered it as well:

HEED UNWRITTEN ORDER, PRES. PACKER SAYS

Most the things mentioned in the talk are pretty benign (and missionary farewells were done away with), but for some reason his statement about funerals always seemed a little odd to me. I can see the logic behind his observation, but I think it was just worded poorly, and failed to acknowledge the benefit funerals are supposed to have for the attendants beyond learning about the gospel.

I think Joseph's talk at King Follett's funeral is the epitome of how a talk at a funeral should be. Joseph said a few things about King at the start of his talk and then dovetailed him and his life into the meaning of what all of our lives here are all about.

What we are, where we came from, where we're going, why we came here, and a little bit about how we did and what we did while we were here. I hope someone will cover all of those points during my funeral talks.

[Mark Beesley]

President Packer was under-appreciated for a number of things, including his wry, deadpan sense of humor.

That this statement, obviously meant with good-natured humor and obvious hyperbole, should now be taken so literally as to wave it posthumously in his face is an example of that.

.

I don't think the knee whore was taking President Packer literally. I think the knee whore was just being the knee whore.

(I love voice recognition software. :-) )

Edited July 6, 2015 by Mark Beesley

[David13]

If someone at my funeral converts because of the preaching at my funeral of the gospel, I shall rest in eternal peace and joy.  I will be glad if it is one person. 

However, I doubt anyone would ever convert based solely on something they heard at my funeral (gospel preaching).

dc

[Ahab]

If someone at my funeral converts because of the preaching at my funeral of the gospel, I shall rest in eternal peace and joy. I will be glad if it is one person.

However, I doubt anyone would ever convert based solely on something they heard at my funeral (gospel preaching).

dc

Conversion is a process so the most any of us (who are not one of the Godhead) can do is just to be a small part of that process. It's not like any of us can claim credit for the complete process in someone else's life, or even our own. So just hope that something/anything beneficial is said, and the more the better.

[canard78]

While the gospel being preached is a wonderful thing, I think it is perfectly fine to allow the family to use the funeral as a time to reflect on the life of the deceased loved one. Elder Packer certainly has the right to his opinions and preferences, of course. I hope that people will do what is best for their circumstances in these situations, and not feel that one size must fit all.

I'll be at a funeral today of one of my closest friends. I've just realised that back in Nov 2012 the recent news of his cancer being discovered was the impetus for my first ever thread on this board (I think): http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/59449-does-god-kill-people/

He was a faithful LDS but the only one of his siblings to have joined. The chapel will be filled with a diverse group of Mormons, never-Mormons, ex-Mormons... We come together to celebrate a shared love of this man and to commemorate the brilliant contribution he made to our lives.

Given the funeral is being organised by his TBM wife and Bishop I fully expect there to be a heavy does of proselyting. Given his death was anticipated I wouldn't be surprised if my friend had requested it have this focus too. I respect that they have sincere motives for doing so and, out of deference to my friend I'll do a lot of tongue-biting today.

President Packer and my friend (and his family) are both entitled to plan any content they like for it. It is, after all, their funeral. That the church pushes preaching as a priority is a shame though and, in my opinion, misguided, especially if a large portion of the attendants are there with no interest in Mormon doctrine and are instead there to remember and mourn the passing of a loved one.

[KevinG]

A couple of weeks ago, at the heavily LDS funeral, my 15 year old son spoke of the love he had for his deceased brother in law.  I saw no distinction between his words and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  

 

I might argue speaking of our love for someone and speaking of the Gospel is a distinction without a difference.

[sethpayne]

Nevermind ....

Edited July 7, 2015 by sethpayne

[canard78]

A couple of weeks ago, at the heavily LDS funeral, my 15 year old son spoke of the love he had for his deceased brother in law. I saw no distinction between his words and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I might argue speaking of our love for someone and speaking of the Gospel is a distinction without a difference.

That's the kind of preaching I can support

[KevinG]

That's the kind of preaching I can support

 

Who can disagree with love?  (Other than bakers with orthodox ideas about marriage).

[Teancum]

Here is hoping Packer is resurrected to fulfill his promise, pops open his coffin, and stands up and denounces a speaker at his funeral.

 

Fingers crossed.

Don't hold your breath....unless you want to die,

[Teancum]

President Packer was under-appreciated for a number of things, including his wry, deadpan sense of humor.

 

That this statement, obviously meant with good-natured humor and obvious hyperbole, should now be taken so literally as to wave it posthumously in his face is an example of that.

The point really is Elder Packer expresses strong views about what an LDS funeral service should be about and his should follow that pattern if in accordance with his teachings and opinion.

My guess is much will actually will be said about him along with gospel teachings as it should be.....in spite of his so called unwritten order of (nonesenical) things.

[Scott Lloyd]

The point really is Elder Packer expresses strong views about what an LDS funeral service should be about and his should follow that pattern if in accordance with his teachings and opinion.

My guess is much will actually will be said about him along with gospel teachings as it should be.....in spite of his so called unwritten order of (nonesenical) things.

How about we wait and see what happens before denouncing or deriding him and those who love him?

Edited July 10, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

Conversion is a process so the most any of us (who are not one of the Godhead) can do is just to be a small part of that process. It's not like any of us can claim credit for the complete process in someone else's life, or even our own. So just hope that something/anything beneficial is said, and the more the better.

Much of the converting that occurs in the funeral service may be in the hearts of those in the congregation who are already active and faithful members of the Church. Conversion, after all, is a lifelong process. Speaking to those who undoubtedly were already seasoned followers of Christ, Alma asked: "If ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?"