Thinking Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary?
JLHPROF Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary? Can't say for sure, but if they never receive the money and the Church corporation foots all the bills why would they pay taxes?I'm sure they'd pay taxes on any actual funds they are paid. But I'd be willing to wager they get refunds, not tax owed. I mean, if the Church is paying your mortgage/rent, car payment, groceries, utilities, and most of your other expenses what would you really need actual cash for?
Coreyb Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Can't say for sure, but if they never receive the money and the Church corporation foots all the bills why would they pay taxes?I'm sure they'd pay taxes on any actual funds they are paid. But I'd be willing to wager they get refunds, not tax owed. I mean, if the Church is paying your mortgage/rent, car payment, groceries, utilities, and most of your other expenses what would you really need actual cash for?Souvenirs, street tacos, chipping in on the pizza, making bets at work, farmers market, enabling transient heroin users... Etc. 2
The Nehor Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I assume it would fall under the same headings as Catholic Priests and the like who do pay income taxes. Subsidized personal expenses are mostly taxable for business employees. They used to be tax dodges but this changed when the US government cut taxes in the highest income brackets by roughly half and also got rid of a lot of the tax dodges that companies were giving higher-end employees to get around the higher tax brackets. This is also why company cars, company vacations, corporate retreats, stock options, lavish health plan, free club memberships, corporate employee discounts, and many other forms of non-direct cash renumeration for employment diminished in the 80s.
Robert F. Smith Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Can't say for sure, but if they never receive the money and the Church corporation foots all the bills why would they pay taxes?I'm sure they'd pay taxes on any actual funds they are paid. But I'd be willing to wager they get refunds, not tax owed. I mean, if the Church is paying your mortgage/rent, car payment, groceries, utilities, and most of your other expenses what would you really need actual cash for?And you base this on what? Does this mean that a Methodist minister does not have to pay tax on his living allowance, free parsonage, etc.? Does this apply to expenses of a rabbi paid by the synagogue board? Does an ultra orthodox rebbe pay tax on the limo and chaffeur provided him by his followers?
Stargazer Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Souvenirs, street tacos, chipping in on the pizza, making bets at work, farmers market, enabling transient heroin users... Etc. Whoa! Do you think that the members of the Twelve run football pools? Hmmm. Perhaps they bet Quatloos instead of real money.
strappinglad Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 If your waitress must report and pay taxes on the CASH tips received, just how would a person get away with not being taxed on a living allowance ? Then again, We must remember that all the GAs are part of the 1 % who have all the loopholes .
Tacenda Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 If your waitress must report and pay taxes on the CASH tips received, just how would a person get away with not being taxed on a living allowance ? Then again, We must remember that all the GAs are part of the 1 % who have all the loopholes . You would think they would, just like the church employees have to. But wait, they are employees, not clergy. Maybe it's all in a word, one change and they'd pay income tax, darn tootin. The IRS would be all over it.
ALarson Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary?Here is the advice given to the Mission Presidents regarding income-tax: To avoid raising unnecessary tax questions, please follow these guidelines closely:- Do not share information on funds you receive from the Church with those who help you with financial or tax matters. Any exceptions should be discussed with the Church Tax Division.- Never represent in any way that you are paid for your service.- If you are required to file an income-tax report for other purposes, do not list any funds you receive from the Church, regardless of where you serve or where you hold citizenship. I would imagine this would be the same for the General Authorities. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I don't necessarily doubt your source, but it would be nice to know where that came from.
Storm Rider Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary? Do general authorities obey the tax code of the USA is your question? How long do you think they would be General Authorities of the Church after they have been arrested for avoiding their taxes? A living allowance is considered ordinary income and is taxed just like your ordinary income or salary. 1
Teancum Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Can't say for sure, but if they never receive the money and the Church corporation foots all the bills why would they pay taxes?I'm sure they'd pay taxes on any actual funds they are paid. But I'd be willing to wager they get refunds, not tax owed.I mean, if the Church is paying your mortgage/rent, car payment, groceries, utilities, and most of your other expenses what would you really need actual cash for?In any other entity if they are paying personal expenses because you render services to that entity creates taxable compensation. Edited June 3, 2015 by Teancum
splendidsun Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 See here: http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/10/30/from-the-mailbag-mission-presidents-and-taxes/ http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/11/17/pastors-housing-take-2/
Teancum Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Here is the advice given to the Mission Presidents regarding income-tax: I would imagine this would be the same for the General Authorities.The mission president direction is dodgy and I am surprised IRS has never challenged it. Even so GAs are different and are full time ministers for a long period of time. Generally any payments made for living expenses for them would be taxable except perhs housing. Ministers can live in a parsonage tax free because it is often a requirement of the job and there is a special exclusion for that. 1
strappinglad Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Well, I see that there is a place for me to go should I be rooted out of my present job in the Church. Praise the Lord and pass the MJ . http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2015/06/01/irs-approves-first-church-of-cannabis-whats-next-for-marijuana/ 1
The Nehor Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Here is the advice given to the Mission Presidents regarding income-tax: I would imagine this would be the same for the General Authorities.I would love to see the context on this. Is it about foreign mission presidents who report taxes locally but are told not to tell the U.S. Government to avoid unnecessary questions and/or investigations because paying locally satisfies the law and there is no sense confusing the issue and wasting time? Mentioning the IRS leads me to believe the full context would be something like this.The whole quote screams "spin job" to me. I also doubt the church is dumb enough to actively put in writing instructions to dodge the law which is why I think this is not evasion of the law at all. 3
Calm Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I would love to see the context on this. Is it about foreign mission presidents who report taxes locally but are told not to tell the U.S. Government to avoid unnecessary questions and/or investigations because paying locally satisfies the law and there is no sense confusing the issue and wasting time? Mentioning the IRS leads me to believe the full context would be something like this.The whole quote screams "spin job" to me. I also doubt the church is dumb enough to actively put in writing instructions to dodge the law which is why I think this is not evasion of the law at all.It sounds to me more like keeping personal non church income separate from income/stipend/allowances received from the Church itself. Confusing personal belongings and expenses with those that are incurred as a church representative can lead to major tax issues which are unnecessary if one does it like the law instructs one to do it. We received a stipend from the US government to teach in Russia at the same time as our income from the University. We did not mix the two as different tax rules applied, kept them separate for what they were to pay for (our time in Russia as opposed to our properties back home, schooling for the kids and some other stuff). It sounds straight forward. You tell your accountant that deals with personal accounts all the info he needs to do his job right. You do not tell him business/church information that has little or nothing to do with his job. Edited June 3, 2015 by calmoriah 1
Yirgacheffe Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 Can't say for sure, but if they never receive the money and the Church corporation foots all the bills why would they pay taxes?I'm sure they'd pay taxes on any actual funds they are paid. But I'd be willing to wager they get refunds, not tax owed. I mean, if the Church is paying your mortgage/rent, car payment, groceries, utilities, and most of your other expenses what would you really need actual cash for?If my company pays for my car I have to claim it as income?
ALarson Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) I don't necessarily doubt your source, but it would be nice to know where that came from. The 2006 Mission President's Handbook. It may have changed now, but I agree with Calmoriah's analysis of why they were most likely advised to follow these guidelines. (Kenngo, I have links to the handbook, but don't know if I should post them here. PM me if you'd like them or you can do a search on scribd as it's on there too). Edited June 3, 2015 by ALarson
The Nehor Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 If my company pays for my car I have to claim it as income?No, but if the car is given to you for both personal and professional use the company will be paying taxes on it as if they were giving it to you as income if I remember correctly.
ERayR Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary? All you ever wanted to know about taxes for clergy. http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417.html 2
thesometimesaint Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 The question of how much an apostle receives for a stipend came up in the Choosing A New Apostle thread. So as not to derail that thread, I have started a new one. The Church insists on the calling the received money a living allowance, not a salary. My question (as indicated by the thread title) is do the general authorities pay income tax on the received money that the Church calls a living allowance? If so, how is a living allowance different from a salary? No. No one is paid for their services to the Church. The Apostles are taxed for the paid work as directors of the various Church owned businesses.
ERayR Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 No. No one is paid for their services to the Church. The Apostles are taxed for the paid work as directors of the various Church owned businesses. tss could you please post where you got this information.
Thinking Posted June 3, 2015 Author Posted June 3, 2015 The Apostles are taxed for the paid work as directors of the various Church owned businesses. It is my understanding that this is no longer the case (I could not find the reference). This from lds.org does not mention being directors of the church-owned businesses.
thesometimesaint Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) That would most unusual as no one is paid for work done for the church. IE; No one is paid for performing weddings, baptisms, speaking in church meetings, etc., etc., etc., and we don't pay any member indirectly for those services. Edited June 3, 2015 by thesometimesaint
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