Myth And False Traditions In The Church

[Duncan]

I fully agree. I have my own miraculous anecdote, and it is known to my wife and children. They saw my destroyed and shredded blue jeans and unscathed garments. I was cut all the way down to the bone and felt searing pain, but neither my garments nor my leg had a scratch on them.

 

Yeah. I really roll my eyes at members who scoff at the idea that garments can provide physical protection (those who wish that we unibrowed, knuckle-dragging simpletons would quit being embarrassing and give up any notions of  the supernatural).

 

when I was a missionary I got into a bike accident, we were zipping down a busy street in LA  and it was raining and had rained hard all day and we were out in it all day long. Well, this guy opened up his car door and I smacked right into it (his car door was permanently stuck open! my bike was a tank!!!!) I remember laying sprawled on the street and miraculously wasn't hit by oncoming cars that were going by me- anyways, I wasn't injured! dazed and confused yes!!! hahahahha but not injured-But I don't know if it was because I was wearing garments that I was saved, maybe it just wasn't my time or a Canadian dying in the mean streets of LA would be bad for International relations

[Buzzard]

Only using your right hand to partake of the sacrament.

Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy- No TV, hiking, outside play, socializing with friends, don't buy gas

Only AP Teachers or higher prepare the sacrament (women used to do it and it's not an enumerated duty in the D&C)

Deacon's holding a microphone for a blessing/confirmation in SM

Not allowing a woman to hold her baby while it's being blessed

Numbers 3 and 5 come out of the General Handbook, so not just tradition, at least church policy.  Our ward does have a tradition of having the mother bring the baby up to the front of the congregation to show him/her off, then the husband and other PH holders come forward to give the name and blessing. 

[stemelbow]

Sticking to the manual prevents a lot of myths, false traditions, and speculation from getting passed along to others.

You're right, but it'd be nice if we could discuss a little more what's on people's minds and not go off on myths, false traditions, and speculations.

[Buzzard]

I was at Scout camp and playing "Scum" with some Scouts from our ward (using a standard deck of cards). Another leader from our stake (we had several wards camping together) told us that playing with face cards was against Church policy. I told him that it isn't, and that there is nothing in the handbooks, Ensign, or anything else that states this. He was bothered, because I was a bishop at the time. 

 

Does anyone know where this notion started, or when the most recent iteration of it in Church literature was?

On my mission, we had an apostle (Elder Perry, who at that time was a fairly young man) come through the European missions.  Of course, all the missionaries were pulled in for a mission conference, we also met with an adjoining mission.  After a very good talk in which he related his experience in the temple when all males were given the priesthood, he opened the floor for questions.  After a few good ones, one of our elders asked him about playing cards.  Elder Perry answered carefully, not saying that they were forbidden, but the the church discouraged them since people had gotten started down the wrong path playing them.  As he looked for the next question, this same elder started waving his hand again and calling out to him by name.  He then stated that the church should reconsider its stance, since his family had played them during many FHE's without problem.  

A clearly miffed Elder Perry basically said good for you, and do what you want, but some people have gotten in trouble using them.  

I had less of a problem with the original question than I did with challenging an apostle over such a minor point of policy.

[The Nehor]

Also limits progression to a great degree.

 

Only if you stick to the manual in the face of revelation, both public and private.

 

If you stick to it in the face of random comments by people in church I would argue it would accelerate progression.

[Stargazer]

How about the idea that using a vending machine on Sunday is breaking the Sabbath?  Would that count?

With as much AI they are putting in vending machines these days, it might be that the poor machine has become sentient. And if sentient, perhaps it should be permitted to rest one day in the week?

[Stargazer]

My father n law was very uncomfortable with my unorthodox views and wanted me to be a orthodox believer.  Trying to show him that prophets are not infalliable I told him JS and BY mentioned people living on the sun and moon.  Rather than acknowledge that they might have been wrong, he chose instead to validate that people might live on the sun and moon.

Let him read "That Leviathan Whom Thou Hast Made" by Eric James Stone.  It's about a human outpost IN the sun, and the race of energy beings that live there and in other stars.  Some of which beings have joined the LDS church!  The protagonist is the branch president of the Sun Branch. 

[Stargazer]

my home teacher taught us as the lesson that all resurrected beings will be white people.

 

A little insensitive, and inaccurate as heck.  Resurrected beings are all of the same race: the race of Heavenly Father.  Neither white nor black nor any other.  IMHO.

[Stargazer]

no photography in the chapel even outside sacrament meeting.  This was in the handbook last I knew

 

I was a bad boy, then.  Our chapel was recently fully remodeled, and because I have a key to the building I visited a few times a week to photograph the progress of the rebuild.  They completely tore down the stand and replaced it.  I took the photos for the ward history, but unofficially.

[Grudunza]

For example: when someone takes the prohibition on certain instruments (drums, guitar, brass) in Sacrament

There's a good one, right there... Guitars are *not* prohibited from use in Sacrament meeting. Only "most brass and percussion" are specified in the handbook, not guitars. And drums and brass aren't really prohibited, either, at the discretion of the bishop for how they're used. I've heard tell of a beautiful soft trumpet group used in a SM musical number, and of course, pianos are percussion instruments (or hybrid string/percussion). Sure, in some styles or uses guitars could qualify as "less worshipful instruments," but so can piano if you're playing it like Jerry Lee Lewis. But I'd put well-played nylon, acoustic or nicely toned (and tuned) electric guitar on par with any instrument for its ability to be "worshipful." I also think that saxophone can be one of the most beautifully expressive instruments and would love to hear it used more for gospel/worship music.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Grudunza

[Tacenda]

There's a good one, right there... Guitars are *not* prohibited from use in Sacrament meeting. Only "most brass and percussion" are specified in the handbook, not guitars. And drums and brass aren't really prohibited, either, at the discretion of the bishop for how they're used. I've heard tell of a beautiful soft trumpet group used in a SM musical number, and of course, pianos are percussion instruments (or hybrid string/percussion). Sure, in some styles or uses guitars could qualify as "less worshipful instruments," but so can piano if you're playing it like Jerry Lee Lewis. But I'd put well-played nylon, acoustic or nicely toned (and tuned) electric guitar on par with any instrument for its ability to be "worshipful." I also think that saxophone can be one of the most beautifully expressive instruments and would love to hear it used more for gospel/worship music.

I attended, the only time, a Catholic service many years ago. For the musical number a guy played a guitar. Might the church have at one time avoided guitars for the reason of separating from the Catholic church, similar to not having crosses etc., be possible? Edited February 19, 2015 by Tacenda

[LDSGuy]

1. Closing curtains to baptismal font as soon as it is completed.

2. Using testimony meeting as a time to update ward on life situation, and confess sins and family failings. (This one is more of a pet peeve).

3. I'll list this as a tradition since it is done so often. "I would be ungrateful if I didn't stand and bear my testimony."

Mine might be more complaints though.

[DBMormon]

Generally speaking, you're an awfully serious and intense guy, DB, So it's hard to know when and if you're joking. From now on I'll keep in mind you have a sense of humor and will keep a sharp eye out for subtile signs of comedic content. I'll try not to make the same again. 

I am actually hilarious.  Outside of "Mormon Faith crisis" discussion.... I am funny.  For example just a little taste check out the cheesy website I helped my daughter create.  All of the voices are mine!

 

I am one of the comedians in my family (My brother is more inappropriate so he gets a few more laughs, as my family is not LDS).  I am the guy who has dressed like Chris Farley's Matt Foley and had the whole room laughing.  

 

Outside of these issues I also take a good joke and enjoy being pranked and being the butt of the joke as well as dishing it out..  So know humor is one of my strong suits.  In fact friend me on FaceBook if you have time and check out my photos it will give you a better feel for who I am!  Unfortunately I see these faith issues as life and death so my humor is more reserved and I feel more defensive.  

have a great day

Edited February 19, 2015 by DBMormon

[teddyaware]

I am actually hilarious.  Outside of "Mormon Faith crisis" discussion.... I am funny.  For example just a little taste check out the cheesy website I helped my daughter create.  All of the voices are mine!

 

I am one of the comedians in my family (My brother is more inappropriate so he gets a few more laughs, as my family is not LDS).  I am the guy who has dressed like Chris Farley's Matt Foley and had the whole room laughing.  

 

Outside of these issues I also take a good joke and enjoy being pranked and being the butt of the joke as well as dishing it out..  So know humor is one of my strong suits.  In fact friend me on FaceBook if you have time and check out my photos it will give you a better feel for who I am!  Unfortunately I see these faith issues as life and death so my humor is more reserved and I feel more defensive.  

have a great day

 

You are forgiven. 

[Duncan]

Something that they did in my mission and I have no doubt all over the world as well is when a General Authority is coming to speak you have to be in your seats at least 30-45 minutes prior. So you just sit there for all that time, doing what I have no idea. The missionaries today say they still do that. I don't know if I understand why that is. I can see they want to all be there by the time the meeting starts but 45 minutes prior? bring a sandwhich or colouring book or something

[mnn727]

My HT related a story last night. He served in Hong Kong and Elder Faust was there and they were having a meeting with him and all the missionaries.

 

My Home Teacher and a few other missionaries were late due to transportation issues and were running as fast as they could passing people, Suddenly a familiar voice yelled at them. "Slow down Elders! - they can't start before I get there" it was President Faust.

 

They got to shake his hand and talk to him for a minute before continuing, at a slow pace, to the meeting.

Edited February 19, 2015 by mnn727

[ksfisher]

1. Closing curtains to baptismal font as soon as it is completed.

 

If the font is draining it's much quieter with the doors closed if you are trying to maintain a reverent atmosphere.

[KevinG]

What does a 2 day stubble mean?

Miami Vice.

[KevinG]

Whoever said we even should wear white shirts out of reverence?

I researched it for a lesson for the Deacons once. I'll have to look it up.

[Hillel2]

I don't want to threadjack this fun thread but this is a good question. Does anyone have a reference about whether or not Jews practiced baptism? Obviously John the baptist did but was that a relatively new ordinance for the time or was it ancient?

Hi. Look up Mikvah on Wikipedia. Jews have been using FULL ritual immersion for a long time to remove defilement. It has also been used for about the last two thousand years as one of the two ritual requirements for conversion to Judaism. John the Baptist was not an outlier in his practice by any means! 

[KevinG]

Assuming there are no myths, false traditions, or speculations contained within the manuals...

We try. I blame Dan Peterson since he has knowledge of the correlation process. Bwahahaha.

[KevinG]

I fully agree. I have my own miraculous anecdote, and it is known to my wife and children. They saw my destroyed and shredded blue jeans and unscathed garments. I was cut all the way down to the bone and felt searing pain, but neither my garments nor my leg had a scratch on them.

 

Yeah. I really roll my eyes at members who scoff at the idea that garments can provide physical protection (those who wish that we unibrowed, knuckle-dragging simpletons would quit being embarrassing and give up any notions of  the supernatural).

I have my own experiences with this, usually involving a chainsaw or mower. I should have more scars than I do. The Lord loves this fool.

[ksfisher]

I researched it for a lesson for the Deacons once. I'll have to look it up.

 

"Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church."

 

Handbook 2 20.4.1

 

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng#204

Edited February 19, 2015 by ksfisher

[KevinG]

There's a good one, right there... Guitars are *not* prohibited from use in Sacrament meeting. Only "most brass and percussion" are specified in the handbook, not guitars. And drums and brass aren't really prohibited, either, at the discretion of the bishop for how they're used. I've heard tell of a beautiful soft trumpet group used in a SM musical number, and of course, pianos are percussion instruments (or hybrid string/percussion). Sure, in some styles or uses guitars could qualify as "less worshipful instruments," but so can piano if you're playing it like Jerry Lee Lewis. But I'd put well-played nylon, acoustic or nicely toned (and tuned) electric guitar on par with any instrument for its ability to be "worshipful." I also think that saxophone can be one of the most beautifully expressive instruments and would love to hear it used more for gospel/worship music.

I have to disagree on one point. Being a Trumpet player (the instrument of angels) I believe that Adolph Sax is a son of perdition.

[KevinG]

"Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church."

 

Handbook 2 20.4.1

 

https://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng#204

Ah! Thank you. I am on an iPad and didn't have my files.