Lds Bishop Forgives Sins

[Doctrine 612]

So I was talking with a bishop on repentance and forgiveness of sin and I asked the bishop what role he plays in the process.

I asked, you don't forgive the sin but help Relive the pain of sin?

He said no, I have the authority to forgive the sin.

I never knew this, and I looked every where, and nothing tells me he is right.

Has anyone else's ever heard of this?

Edited December 20, 2014 by Doctrine 612

[The Nehor]

So I was talking with a bishop on repentance and forgiveness of sin and I asked the bishop what role he plays in the process.

I asked, you don't forgive the sin but help Relive the pain of sin?

He said no, I have the authority to forgive the sin.

I never knew this, and I looked every where, and nothing tells me he is right.

Has anyone else's ever heard of this?

 

The bishop has the authority to declare the sin forgiven on behalf of the Church (part of repentance from some serious sins). He also has the gift of discernment and can declare sins completely forgiven if so directed. He does not actually forgive them but can declare that the Savior has forgiven them.

[bluebell]

The bishop has the authority to declare the sin forgiven on behalf of the Church (part of repentance from some serious sins). He also has the gift of discernment and can declare sins completely forgiven if so directed. He does not actually forgive them but can declare that the Savior has forgiven them.

This is my understanding as well.

[Doctrine 612]

That is true, but he was saying he can forgive them like jesus can forgive them.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Doctrine 612

[Mars]

That is true, but he was saying he can forgive them like jesus can forgive them.

 

Kinda doubt it...

[Rob Osborn]

Only the Lord can forgive man his sins. The bishop can make a formal declaration as to if a mans sins have been forgiven him by the Lord but he cannot himself forgive mans sins.

[intra]

So I was talking with a bishop on repentance and forgiveness of sin and I asked the bishop what role he plays in the process.

I asked, you don't forgive the sin but help Relive the pain of sin?

He said no, I have the authority to forgive the sin.

I never knew this, and I looked every where, and nothing tells me he is right.

Has anyone else's ever heard of this?

it's because he claims for himself the same authority Christ gave to the disciples: 

On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

(John 20:19-23) 

it is worth noting that the text here says Jesus said this to disciples not apostles -- so that if by this scripture we justify that men have authority in Christ's name to forgive sins on earth, that authority is not confined to an human ruling elite, but to everyone that is His disciple and walks according to the Holy Spirit. 

tell your bishop if he is willing to give up his pride, and consider himself lower than all his brothers, i forgive him. 

 

 

[ERayR]

Only the Lord can forgive man his sins. The bishop can make a formal declaration as to if a mans sins have been forgiven him by the Lord but he cannot himself forgive mans sins.

 

Matt. 18:18  Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[HappyJackWagon]

The bishop has the authority to declare the sin forgiven on behalf of the Church (part of repentance from some serious sins). He also has the gift of discernment and can declare sins completely forgiven if so directed. He does not actually forgive them but can declare that the Savior has forgiven them.

I agree with this.  A Bishop can forgive sins on behalf of the church and on his own behalf but not on behalf of God.

[Tacenda]

I agree with this.  A Bishop can forgive sins on behalf of the church and on his own behalf but not on behalf of God.

I guess the Catholic and LDS have this in common.  And can see how it would give peace to many.

[rpn]

I long ago came to understand that when the bishop forgives the sin, it is on behalf of the Church.   God's may or may not forgive on the same timetable (because He knows the entire story and YOU completely, which the bishop can not ever do).   In my lifetime there have been times when He has forgiven long before the Church did (though both are essential to complete His process), other times when He didn't forgive anywhere nearly as easily as the Church did, and sometimes both at the same time.

[ERayR]

I long ago came to understand that when the bishop forgives the sin, it is on behalf of the Church.   God's may or may not forgive on the same timetable (because He knows the entire story and YOU completely, which the bishop can not ever do).   In my lifetime there have been times when He has forgiven long before the Church did (though both are essential to complete His process), other times when He didn't forgive anywhere nearly as easily as the Church did, and sometimes both at the same time.

 

When one goes to the Bishop and confesses his sins and the Bishop forgives them the are "remembered no more".  Sins that affect the Church need to be forgiven by the Bishop.

[smac97]

Here is an excerpt from The Miracle of Forgiveness (pp. 263-264) that may be useful to consider:

 

Bishops Remove Penalties, Not Sins

 

Although there are many ecclesiastical officers in the Church whose positions entitle and require them to be judges, the authority of those positions does not necessarily qualify them to forgive or remit sins.  Those who can do that are extremely few in this world.

 

The bishop, and others in comparable positions, can forgive in the sense of waiving the penalties. In our loose connotation we sometimes call this forgiveness, but it is not forgiveness in the sense of "wiping out" or absolution. The waiver means, however, that the individual will not need to be tried again for the same error, and that he may become active and have fellowship with the people of the Church. In receiving the confession and waiving the penalties the bishop is representing the Lord. He helps to carry the burden, relieves the transgressor's strain and tension, and assures to him a continuation of Church activity.

 

It is the Lord, however, who forgives sin. This point, and the position of the bishop and comparable officers in the matter, was brought out in the following instruction given to bishops of the Church by President J. Reuben Clark on April 5, 1946:

 

...

 

There is in the Church... the power to remit sins, but I do not believe it resides in the bishops. That is a power that must be exercised under the proper authority of the priesthood and by those who hold the keys that pertain to that function. Woo back every sinner. Forgive them personally. The Lord has said that. Do all you can, but short of that formal remission the matter then rests between the transgressor and the Lord, who is merciful, who knows all of the circumstances, who has no disposition but to aid his children, give them comfort, guide them, and help them. But the Lord has said, "I cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance." So we leave it with him, and our prayers go with the prayers of the transgressor that God will forgive him, but the path of the sinner was never smooth and I believe never will he.

 

...

 

Let it be said in emphasis that even the First Presidency and the Apostles do not make a practice of absolving sins. They waive penalties in the course of their ministrations. Thus the forgiveness or waiver of penalty is not something to be taken idly or thoughtlessly and is not to be given for a mere token effort or trial, but only for a genuine, wholehearted repentance.

 

Also, here is a Facebook post which addresses this point.  The post purports to be quoting general authorities, but the specific quotation below appears to be from the writer of the post, not from a GA.  Nevertheless, I think the point is worth considering:

 

Regarding the authority of priesthood leaders to remit sins, Doctrine and Covenants 132:46 ties this authority with the sealing keys. "And  verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you  bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven."  So the only Priesthood leaders that have the authority on earth to remit sins is the Priesthood office that holds the sealing keys, meaning The First Presidency.  But even they don’t do it often.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[telnetd]

it is worth noting that the text here says Jesus said this to disciples not apostles -- so that if by this scripture we justify that men have authority in Christ's name to forgive sins on earth, that authority is not confined to an human ruling elite, but to everyone that is His disciple and walks according to the Holy Spirit. 

 

Sounds good. Women have this authority too.

 

Gail

[Pahoran]

it's because he claims for himself the same authority Christ gave to the disciples: 

On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

(John 20:19-23) 

it is worth noting that the text here says Jesus said this to disciples not apostles -- so that if by this scripture we justify that men have authority in Christ's name to forgive sins on earth, that authority is not confined to an human ruling elite, but to everyone that is His disciple and walks according to the Holy Spirit. 

tell your bishop if he is willing to give up his pride, and consider himself lower than all his brothers, i forgive him. 

 

 

 

Note that a disciple isn't just anyone who thinks of himself (or herself) as following a teacher; it is one whom the teacher has accepted.  IOW, the disciples are those who are under the teacher's discipline.

 

So the disciples of Jesus aren't just everyone who reads the Bible and supposes that it means them; they are the covenant community of Saints whom Christ has chosen.

 

But if you are willing to give up your pride, by which you presumed to pass judgement upon D612's bishop, I'll forgive you.

 

Regards,

Pahoran

Edited December 21, 2014 by Pahoran

[Uncle Dale]

So I was talking with a bishop on repentance and forgiveness of sin and I asked the bishop what role he plays in the process.

I asked, you don't forgive the sin but help Relive the pain of sin?

He said no, I have the authority to forgive the sin.

I never knew this, and I looked every where, and nothing tells me he is right.

Has anyone else's ever heard of this?

 

 

I've heard similar declarations among some of the older Reorganized Latter Day Saints --

that "holders of the priesthood" in some callings, can either bind or remit on earth, so

that the same result was either bound or remitted in the afterlife.

 

Sidney Rigdon taught this exact doctrine after his 1844 excommunication, and evidence

of that fact can be seen his his 1844-46 Pittsburgh "Messenger & Advocate" articles.

Since many of Rigdon's former followers eventually ended up in the Reorganization,

perhaps they brought that doctrine in along with them.

 

I know not how things are structured in the LDS Church; but it seems logical, that if

a Bishop can forgive sins, he can also do the opposite, and "seal" them upon the

sinner -- such that the latter will receive no forgiveness.

 

UD

[BCSpace]

Sounds good. Women have this authority too.

 

Gail

 

But if women don't rule in the churches, as per the scriptures, they can't make a ruling on whether or not a sin has been forgiven.

Edited December 22, 2014 by BCSpace

[smac97]

it's because he claims for himself the same authority Christ gave to the disciples: 

On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

(John 20:19-23) 

it is worth noting that the text here says Jesus said this to disciples not apostles -- so that if by this scripture we justify that men have authority in Christ's name to forgive sins on earth, that authority is not confined to an human ruling elite, but to everyone that is His disciple and walks according to the Holy Spirit. 

tell your bishop if he is willing to give up his pride, and consider himself lower than all his brothers, i forgive him. 

 

 

 

Could you clarify something for me?  I had understood that the event described in John 20 (apparently also described in Luke 24:33-49 and Mark 16:14-18) was an appearance to the apostles.  Also, consider D&C 132:46, which seems to tie the authority to remit sins with the sealing keys. "And  verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you  bind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven."

 

Also, consider the following (from here) (emphases added):

 

“Revelation from the Lord is always required to retain or remit sins. Since God is the one who must cleanse and purify a human soul, the use of his priestly powers to do so must be authorized and approved by him, and this approval comes by revelation from his Holy Spirit. In many cases in this dispensation the Lord by revelation announced that the sins of certain persons were forgiven. (D. & C. 60:7; 61:2; 62:3; 64:3.) Accordingly, if by revelation he should tell his apostles to act for him, using his power which is priesthood, and to thus retain or remit sins, they would do so, and their acts would in effect be his. See Matt. 16:13–20; 17:1–9; 18:18.

 

“This same apostolic power is always found in the true Church, and hence we find the Lord saying to Joseph Smith: ‘I have conferred upon you the keys and power of the priesthood, … and whosesoever sins you remit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.’ (D. & C. 132:45–46.)” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1:857–58.)

 

President Spencer W. Kimball explained: “The offender should seek the forgiveness of the Church through his bishop. No priest or elder is authorized to thus act for the Church. The Lord has a consistent, orderly plan. Every soul in stakes is given a bishop who, by the very order of his calling and his ordination, is a ‘judge in Israel.’ The bishop is our best earthly friend. He will hear the problems, judge the seriousness, then determine the degree of repentance and decide if it warrants an eventual forgiveness. He does this as the earthly representative of God—the master physician, the master psychologist, the master psychiatrist. If repentance is sufficient he may waive penalties, which is tantamount to forgiveness. The bishop claims no authority to absolve sins, but he does share the burden, waive penalties, relieve tension and strain; and he may assure a continuance of activity. He will keep the whole matter most confidential.” (“President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality,” Ensign, Nov. 1980, p. 98; or New Era, Nov. 1980, p. 44.)

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Edited December 22, 2014 by smac97

[Ahab]

Some complexity is being missed here, so far. What about what our Lord said about all of us being required to forgive while the Lord would forgive whoever he forgived? I forgive everyone for their sins and weaknesses all the time, or at least I try to, and it has nothing to do with my position in the Church, whatever it is.

And I've always considered forgiving someone to be for my own benefit, regardless of the actions or the mindset of the person I am forgiving. He or she would still need to repent to be free of that sin or weakness, whether or not being forgiven.

[pogi]

tell your bishop if he is willing to give up his pride, and consider himself lower than all his brothers, i forgive him. 

 

Charming as ever! 

[Buzzard]

Can't speak for bishops, but a close family member was told by an apostle that his sins were forgiven.  Due to the sacred nature of the situation, I'll omit the details. 

[Doctrine 612]

Yea, but by god not the apostle, he just needed to know since he was carrying the pain still with him

Edited December 23, 2014 by Doctrine 612

[Rob Osborn]

Only Christ, who was and is sinless has the power to forgive sins in the eternal scheme of things. It is He only who is the Great Mediator between us and the Father

[VideoGameJunkie]

During a blessing my Bishop told me my sins were forgiven. But that was really Heavenly Father speaking through him telling me I was forgiven. It was also the best feeling of my life and made me LOVE the atonement and it's mercy and power.

[Doctrine 612]

There are many ways to have your sins forgiven.

Blessing, James ch 5:15

Bringing someone to the gospel, James ch 5:20

Bearing your testimony, d and c 84:61,62:3

Confessing and forsaking

And some others I can't remember at this time.