Thoughts And Advice Requested Please

[Silhouette]

You are still around and so are the children...no matter their age, our children and all of God's children learn in three different ways. By example, by example and by example! You have so many more years to teach these lessons. As for myself...welcome back my sister. I am sure everyone else here feels the same way.

Pa Pa, thanks so much for these kind and encouraging words. I do hope that the new example I intend to set for my children will have some positive influence on them.

And thank you for welcoming me back. People like you are the reason why, though my flesh was weak for a time, my faith never wavered.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Silhouette

[Robert F. Smith]

I'm sorry that you are worried about the years you missed. It is a painful situation indeed. Because of our inactivity we did not raise our children in the Gospel. They are very much "of the world" now, with no knowledge of spiritual things whatsoever. No idea of the Savior, no idea of a loving Father in Heaven. Nothing to fall back on in times of despair and sorrow.

We stopped going to Church when they were both very small. They are 22 and 20 now. I'll share something very personal with you, Garden Girl, about this calling that I didn't mention in my

OP.

I went to the Bishop some weeks ago, one of my regular visits with him, and expressed sorrow for not having raised my children in the Gospel. I asked how I might make up for this...what could I DO, for God's sake, to help my poor lost children, because it is my fault alone that we stopped going to Church. At that time he told me to watch General Conference and that I would get my answer there. So I watched. I took notes. I prayed. And I got nothing. No insight whatsoever as to how I could help my children, or what I could do to repent of this.

On Sunday I told my Bishop this. He said that he did indeed think that I would be held accountable by my Heavenly Father for not raising my children in the Gospel. But he said there was still the Atonement, which should give me hope if I but repented.

Then he presented me this calling, and said that this was to start my journey of repentance. He said it will take a long time, but that it was possible.

So I don't know, maybe I'm SUPPOSED to meet with hostility in this calling, and perhaps enduring the pain and hardship of it are meant to hone me spiritually.

I understand your pain at having missed so many years. Would that I had not missed my childrens' entire lives thus far, because of my refusal to endure a few things when they were small.

Some of this seems odd, and almost like Catholic penance to me, but you seem to have the right attitude, so things may go well, not only in the calling, but also in helping you to pay a price to fit your feelings of guilt.

 

I had a stake calling some years ago about which I was rather dubious, but I accepted it, and no one in the ward objected when our high councilman announced my calling in sacrament meeting for a sustaining vote (I assume that no one objected in your sustaining vote).  However, when it came time to set me apart, the chair collapsed under me (those metal chairs!!) and I sprawled on the floor to everyone's delight.  There was muttering that maybe that was a sign, but they didn't let me off the hook and set me apart anyway.  A year later, still a bit dubious, I realized that it hadn't been so bad after all, and that maybe I had done a good job.

[mfbukowski]

I did accept the calling and am supposed to be sustained and set apart this coming Sunday. Despite my own reservations about this organization, I have prayed about it and felt the Spirit. I will do my very best and have faith in the Lord that He will be beside me all the way.

That's the answer right there.

He should not have told you all that stuff. He sounds like he is inspired but inexperienced and not a people person.

But bishops are not called because they are ready for their callings. We are all called because God wants us there, not because we are qualified.

Hang in there and go with the spirit.

[mfbukowski]

Tell the presidency what he told you.

They will be so embarrassed they will welcome you with open arms.

[Silhouette]

Some of this seems odd, and almost like Catholic penance to me, but you seem to have the right attitude, so things may go well, not only in the calling, but also in helping you to pay a price to fit your feelings of guilt.

I had a stake calling some years ago about which I was rather dubious, but I accepted it, and no one in the ward objected when our high councilman announced my calling in sacrament meeting for a sustaining vote (I assume that no one objected in your sustaining vote). However, when it came time to set me apart, the chair collapsed under me (those metal chairs!!) and I sprawled on the floor to everyone's delight. There was muttering that maybe that was a sign, but they didn't let me off the hook and set me apart anyway. A year later, still a bit dubious, I realized that it hadn't been so bad after all, and that maybe I had done a good job.

I've not been sustained yet. I'm to be sustained and set apart this coming up Sunday.

I think the part about this being part of my repentance process for not raising my children in the Gospel stems from the steps of repentance. The first step is to recognize that we have done something wrong. The second step is to feel sorrow for having done the wrong. The third step is to forsake the thing we have done wrong, and the last step is to make restitution for the wrong we have done. I've done all but the last step, and in fact the sorrow that I feel for my sin is still very keen, and will be for a very long time.

What remains for me to do is make restitution. I believe the Bishop means that since I cannot now get my children involved in Church, so restitution that way is closed right now, but I may be able to make some sort of restitution through faithful service and "laboring unceasingly".

At least that's what I got out of that part of the discussion last Sunday.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Silhouette

[Tacenda]

And what of those parents that raise their children in the church and they still go off the rails? (mine)

Silhouette I hope you don't think you're as bad or need repenting as your bishop is leading you to believe. You never know of the spirit leading you in other ways. Church is just a building, you may have done more than you think, raised socially conscience children. There's alot of churchy people that don't have a love for others. Or aren't what you think, just looking good on the outside. What could the activity level have done? It didn't do anything for my family, just made it worse.

I hope you look back on how you raised your children and look at the good you did. Some in the church like to guilt you into obedience, that's not from God.

[Silhouette]

And what of those parents that raise their children in the church and they still go off the rails? (mine)

Silhouette I hope you don't think you're as bad or need repenting as your bishop is leading you to believe. You never know of the spirit leading you in other ways. Church is just a building, you may have done more than you think, raised socially conscience children. There's alot of churchy people that don't have a love for others. Or aren't what you think, just looking good on the outside. What could the activity level have done? It didn't do anything for my family, just made it worse.

I hope you look back on how you raised your children and look at the good you did. Some in the church like to guilt you into obedience, that's not from God.

You're right, of course. There's no guarantee that my children would be any different if we had stayed active and faithful in every possible aspect. But at least I would have been able to stand before my Heavenly Father and say that I had tried with all my might. The way things are, I will never be able to do that.

My Bishop asked me what I thought was a strange question during our discussion about this. He asked me if I were worried for my children's salvation, or if I were worried about the judgement upon myself for my wrongdoing. I was rather taken aback, and replied immediately that I was worried about my children.

I guess him asking doesn't really have any significance, I just thought it was strange that he would think I might be the type of mother that would put my own needs before my childrens'. I don't think I come across as that, but his question made me wonder if he thought I was selfish and uncaring of my children on top of all my other shortcomings, and if so, what on earth had I done to project such an image of myself.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Silhouette

[Tacenda]

Don't let the church or any man come between you and God, listen to Him. I know I've struggled to even believe in God since my faith crisis, but this one thing stands out. Also be careful not to let church dictate what/how you treat your children or enable you to criticize your children. They may not live active church lives, but the things they do in everyday life is good too. Many LDS are Sunday only members, what good is that, if it's just to pass off a check list.

[Silhouette]

Don't let the church or any man come between you and God, listen to Him. I know I've struggled to even believe in God since my faith crisis, but this one thing stands out. Also be careful not to let church dictate what/how you treat your children or enable you to criticize your children. They may not live active church lives, but the things they do in everyday life is good too. Many LDS are Sunday only members, what good is that, if it's just to pass off a check list.

Wise words, very true.

[bluebell]

Don't let the church or any man come between you and God, listen to Him. I know I've struggled to even believe in God since my faith crisis, but this one thing stands out. Also be careful not to let church dictate what/how you treat your children or enable you to criticize your children. They may not live active church lives, but the things they do in everyday life is good too. Many LDS are Sunday only members, what good is that, if it's just to pass off a check list.

Many LDS are Sunday only members? You are always saying how judgmental Mormons are, but you seem to be pretty comfortable judging others Tacenda.

[Tacenda]

Many LDS are Sunday only members? You are always saying how judgmental Mormons are, but you seem to be pretty comfortable judging others Tacenda.

Well then count some teachers/leaders as being judgmental, because I've heard this spoken by them in the church, how not to be Sunday only members. Maybe shouldn't have said "many" members.  For that, I'm sorry.

 

And I'm sorry I keep interjecting thoughts that seem to take away from your going back to the church Silhouette! 

Edited November 21, 2014 by Tacenda

[rockpond]

I will briefly review my history for those who have forgotten or don't know me well. I have been inactive for a number of years and have just recently returned to Church. I didn't break any temple covenants while inactive, and continued to wear my garments and pay a full tithe. I did experience some Word of Wisdom problems, but stopped several months ago, and have repented and kept up regular meetings with my Bishop for the past year, to discuss my progress and goals during my reactivation. The meetings began while I was inactive, and are continuing.

This past Sunday my Bishop presented a calling to me, the nature of which I can't discuss yet because I've not been sustained yet. However, I would like to relate to you all some things that my Bishop told me at the time he presented this calling to me. Things I have struggled with.

First, he told me that he had had a personal revelation about me specifically, telling him to offer me this calling. That part was great. No issues there.

Then he proceeded to tell me that the Presidency involved in this position said very plainly that they did not want me in the position. And that the counselor in the Bishopric over this organization expressed serious reservations too.

The Bishop told me that he ended up having to just about force the issue, and that he "really went to bat" for me.

He told me that when these folks realized that he WAS going to extend the calling to me despite their protests, they then came up with the suggestion of calling an additional person to share the calling with me. He vetoed that idea too, saying that me doing it on my own was a great opportunity for growth and experience. This position is held by only one person, and calling a second person to the same position is absolutely outside the norm.

Now, he tried to soften all of this by saying that he didn't think they didn't want me because I couldn't do the job, but that he thought it was because they were afraid that I would be overwhelmed by it and stop coming again due to the stress that goes along with this calling. They told him that they wanted someone who could "hit the ground running."

I didn't particularly want to go into this organization in the first place. They don't want me in it anyway. To me this is a recipe for disaster.

I did accept the calling and am supposed to be sustained and set apart this coming Sunday. Despite my own reservations about this organization, I have prayed about it and felt the Spirit. I will do my very best and have faith in the Lord that He will be beside me all the way.

Nevertheless, it feels like I'm going into a place where I am clearly not wanted, and that the odds are already stacked against me for success. I dislike having to be "forced" on anyone. I feel that I'm diving head first into a very hostile situation.

Thoughts? Advice? Thanks in advance. I am really struggling with all of this.

 

Silhouette,

 

I happen to be currently serving as a counselor in the Bishopric and during my time there I have seen similar situations play out.  I see it as somewhat a battle of "stewardships".  For example, in my ward we have a huge primary... multiple classes for certain age groups.  We have more adults serving in primary callings than in many other organizations combined.  There have been times where the Bishopric felt strongly about calling someone to serve in primary who wasn't (what I'll call) fully active.  Those recommendations to our primary president almost always get rejected because the primary president wants only those who are the most active and *presumably* the best suited to teach "her" primary kids.  This makes sense because that is HER stewardship.  She loves those kids and watches out for each of them as if they are her own.  But we press forward, pray, do what we feel is best, sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes we see enormous blessings.

 

I can totally relate to your trepidation in entering a calling where you feel you might not be as welcome as you'd prefer.  I didn't have time to read the entire thread, I imagine this advice has already been shared -- but please, joyfully serve in the calling.  Pray hard.  Love lots.  Take the perspective you've gained, the lessons you learned, and go do your best.  Always remember that your Bishop feels inspired to have you in that position.  There is undoubtedly someone in that organization that will be personally and eternally blessed by what you have to offer.  Hearts will be softened and we'll all be better for what you accomplished in overcoming the concerns of the auxiliary president.

 

God Speed.

[Ahab]

I think the part about this being part of my repentance process for not raising my children in the Gospel stems from the steps of repentance. The first step is to recognize that we have done something wrong. The second step is to feel sorrow for having done the wrong. The third step is to forsake the thing we have done wrong, and the last step is to make restitution for the wrong we have done. I've done all but the last step, and in fact the sorrow that I feel for my sin is still very keen, and will be for a very long time.

Sounds like you may need to give some more thought to what the restitution part actually is, just to make sure you don't think it is what it is not.

It is:

NOT to try to go back in time.

NOT to think you never messed up.

NOT to act as if you never messed up.

NOT to mess up again as you messed up before.

All it involves is not doing the "bad thing" any more and to do the right thing, instead, from now on. You actually can act as if you never messed up before, as long as you have already acknowledged in your heart and soul that you did indeed mess up before. But you don't have to dwell on the thought that you messed up in your past, as if you still should feel bad about it. It's like saying to yourself, and God, and anyone else you directly affected:

"Look, I messed up, and I don't want to mess up again. I know I can't go back in time to not mess up in the first place, though, so I'm just going to start doing what I should have done before as far as that is still possible, because that's really the best option I have. Feeling bad about my mess up doesn't and won't do me any real good, so I'm just going to be focusing on doing the right thing from now on.

The hard part, if there really is any hard part, is just to do the right thing even when it might feel hard to do.

What remains for me to do is make restitution. I believe the Bishop means that since I cannot now get my children involved in Church, so restitution that way is closed right now, but I may be able to make some sort of restitution through faithful service and "laboring unceasingly".

You actually can get your children involved in the Church now, starting from now instead of trying to time travel back to the past. Talk about how you are involved in the Church now and how you would like to help them get involved in it too, realizing it is still their choice to get involved in it and that you shouldn't do anything to try to force them to get involved in the Church or even in the gospel. You could offer them a ride if fhey are willing to go with you, letting them know when it is time for them to go to the meetings, but still there is nothing you should do to make them go if they don't want to go. Just tell them you're going to the meetings and try to teach them about the gospel as well as you can.

At least that's what I got out of that part of the discussion last Sunday.

Lots of active members of the Church don't fully understand what repentance is all about, especially the restitution part, so it's good to make sure you do understand it. It's not a bad thing, or even a hard thing to do as long as you want to do the right thing. It is actually one of the greatest things our Father has told us about that we can actually do after we have messed up.

[Calm]

You're right, of course. There's no guarantee that my children would be any different if we had stayed active and faithful in every possible aspect. But at least I would have been able to stand before my Heavenly Father and say that I had tried with all my might. The way things are, I will never be able to do that.

My Bishop asked me what I thought was a strange question during our discussion about this. He asked me if I were worried for my children's salvation, or if I were worried about the judgement upon myself for my wrongdoing. I was rather taken aback, and replied immediately that I was worried about my children.

I guess him asking doesn't really have any significance, I just thought it was strange that he would think I might be the type of mother that would put my own needs before my childrens'. I don't think I come across as that, but his question made me wonder if he thought I was selfish and uncaring of my children on top of all my other shortcomings, and if so, what on earth had I done to project such an image of myself.

I bet he asked that for your sake and not his. Sometimes we think things about ourselves but don't really articulate them well enough in our thought process to recognize exactly what we are thinking. Guilt/shame can be both healthy and harmful, identifying what you feel and eliminating the unhealthy thoughts while promoting thoughts that will take you further down the road of repentance is part of the bishop's job. By asking you that, if you did have any hidden thought like that, it has now been brought out and removed because it was confronted. You may not even be aware that you were thinking that, but if you were having that doubt about yourself, hopefully it is resolved.

He may be a bit awkward about it, it is not an easy job even for those professionally trained in therapy.

You might also want to consider that you are interpreting what he is saying and how he is saying that (as we all do) and it may be your own discomfort about the subject, your righteous and loving sorrow for the effects you may have had on others including your children, that may be colouring how you are reading him.

Edited November 21, 2014 by calmoriah

[smac97]

Silhouette,

Here are a few thoughts:

1. The Tough Call: I think your bishop made a tough call, but the right one. I firmly believe that revelation regarding church callings happens. All the time. In ways both subtle and clear. If he says he received revelation from God about you and about that calling, then I think you can trust in that. That trust may be important when you run up against other people in your ward who did not experience it, and who therefore may be acting on less information and less revealed guidance than what has been given to your bishop.

Bishops need to focus on doing what's *right*, on what is in accord with the mind and will of God.  This means that, on occasion, a bishop will do something that will irritate *someone* in the ward. So your bishop A) received what he felt was "specific" revelation about you and this calling, B) received feedback from ward members that sort of conflicted with the revelation received, and C) weighed A and B and ultimately went with A. He did what he thought was in accord with the mind and will of God, while simultaneously knowing that ward members were perhaps not happy about that. That's faith. Faith in God, faith in his own ability to discern the will of God, and faith in you.

 

As to whether the bishop should have shared with you the concerns/pushback he has received, I have no input except to say that I could see a bishop wanting to give someone a heads-up.

2. Flexibility and Specificity: In my view, sometimes the Lord gives a bishop flexibility in giving a calling to a person. That is, there are a number of people who *could* be called, and the bishop is left to his own best judgment to make the final decision (with input from his counselors and perhaps others as well). But there are times when the Lord gets very specific about a particular person and a particular calling. That appears to be what happened here, that the bishop is acting not based on his own judgment, but on revelation, on instructions from our Father in Heaven. It's a little miracle, even a common miracle, for a bishop to receive and act on revelation. But that does not diminish the remarkableness of it. The Creator of the heavens and the earth took time to speak to the mind and heart of your bishop about you. That just seems . . . cool.

3. Personal Revelation: So far my comments have been about your bishop. But it looks like he's done his job, and now it's your turn. Despite all that I have said, it is theoretically possible that the bishop is just wrong and that the other people in the ward are right. That seems unlikely given what you've said, but it's possible. And regardless of what your bishop has felt about extending this calling, you are also entitled to obtain revelation about it. Luke 11:9 seems appropriate here:

 

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

 

It's possible that the bishop got it wrong. Or it's possible that the bishop got it right, and that the Lord is asking you to do something that may be difficult in some respects. Through faith and prayer, you can know for yourself which of these possibilities is true.

 

4. Magnifying and Reconciling: If you end up receiving the calling, magnify it. Reach out in love and compassion to those who may have pre-judged you. Ask for help, but also proactively fulfill and expand upon the duties of the calling. That would, I think, be obedient to the Lord's will, and it would also soften the hearts of those around you and therefore alleviate potential conflict.  Also, forgive those who have expressed some reservations about you. Based on how your bishop characterized their concerns, they are apparently not acting out of malice, but out of concern for you.

 

However you decide to proceed, I wish you well.

 

Sincerely,

 

-Smac
 

Edited November 21, 2014 by smac97

[Garden Girl]

I'm sorry that you are worried about the years you missed. It is a painful situation indeed. Because of our inactivity we did not raise our children in the Gospel. They are very much "of the world" now, with no knowledge of spiritual things whatsoever. No idea of the Savior, no idea of a loving Father in Heaven. Nothing to fall back on in times of despair and sorrow.

 

 

Hello Silhouette...

I was raised in the Church, our family becoming very active when my Step-dad converted and we truly embraced the gospel, and were sealed as a family in the SLC temple a year after his baptism when I was 14 and my sis was 17.  I loved the gospel and participated fully, attending seminary all during my school years... attending BYU for a year... then I came home and took what I had intended to be a summer job before returning to BYU.  But I met the non-LDS man who I fell head over heels for and married and slipped into inactivity... I broke my parents' hearts... All the time before I married I know my mom must have worn out her knees praying for me... and I would not listen to my folks' counsel...    

So there is no guarantee that even if you had raised your children in the Church that they would not have turned away... so the first thing is to stop feeling guilty... of course understand the role you played and your need to repent, and do so... but do not continue to beat yourself but go forward now... and, as Pa Pa said... live by example, example, example. 

Is there any possibility that your children would be open to hearing about the gospel... if you started slowly and introduced your experiences now into general conversation with them...  talked to them about what it's like to read your scriptures again, etc etc.  They surely must remember you wearing your garments, etc.  Is there any possibility that they would be interested in the Church?  It may seem like a total impossibility at this stage, but a friend's husband was non-LDS, didn't want to hear about it for years, but through her prayers etc his heart softened, and today is a very active High Priest.  So if you live by example, include talk of the gospel in your everyday conversation, without pushing, fasting and praying for help and guidance, leaving your scriptures and Church magazines like the Ensign around as part of your everyday environment,  you may be surprised what miracles you may wrought... it is never too late... I always tell my friends at Church whose children have strayed not to give up... just to love them and live by example... and I'm the perfect example of what can come of that...

 

GG

[Calm]

"Just tell them you're going to the meetings and try to teach them about the gospel as well as you can."

And of course pray for them that they may feel the Spirit as you have which you most likely do already.,..but realize how powerful those prayers can be. God won't force them to choose differently, but he can restore that choice to them that you feel was taken from them through your own inactivity. And a chance to choose God is all that they need, whether it is a lifetime of choice or a choice at the Final Judgment...it ends up being the same, an eternity of joy with God.

You may not be able to restore the opportunities that are past, this may affect their mortal path and their experiences may be different because of that, but God can take any experience and turn it to good through faith and in the end they will have the chance to learn it all and make their choice as if you had helped provide it in full from the moment of their birth.

The Atonement is there so we can have joy even among the sorrow of the world. Sincere repentance opens up the way for God to use us to remove those sorrows as well as others, but as Ahab says our restitution is not like the Law of Moses where we have to be the one replacing every jot and title exactly as we damaged it (or four times if we took something unrighteously iirc), rather it is putting ourselves in God's hands to do his work from this time forward as best we can....and the bishop is right that part of this is through serving others where God want you to serve.

This may be what he meant but he might have been inspired to present a more 'eye for an eye' restitution (not vengeance as it is often mistaken and taken to justify and it is an equivalency for an eye, not an eye itself) because that is what underneath it all you feel you must do, that you need to make up somehow in someway to balance mistakes in the past and he is providing you a way to restore because that is your belief so that is what you need to do but it may also be your assumptions about repentance that are driving the discussion this way, either through your interpretations and responses to him or through the Spirit responding to him. Whichever, it is causing you to think about it and even ask others and maybe that is the inspired purpose of any oddness in the conversation. I assume you've asked God as well, but don't stop just because you believe one way has been provided for you to rewalk that choice in your life to influence others towards Christ, don't forget to ask him every day to use you according to his will to bring others to him. By asking you will in time receive assurance as Ahab said that you are doing all that is required of you to repent, that everything else needed for your children to heal from any mistakes you've made as a parent will be provided by God himself or through others he has chosen to do his work. You can turn that burden with its guilt over to God. It is a deep blessing for all parents for we all make errors in teaching our children.

Edited November 21, 2014 by calmoriah

[lds-convert-sw]

"Silhouette"... I'm new here, this is my first post. I will keep my response brief. Thanks everyone. Hope I'm following all the rules

Please remember that we are all fallible human beings. We all have traits that may not be ideal at all times. Even those in Stake Presidencies. I once had a Bishop I thought was 'difficult'. Only after he was released did I realize why. He was actually a great guy, but he came from a military background, so he wasn't all emotional/feelings type of person I relate to easily. Sometimes we take things wrong (I know I have). Maybe they are just showing genuine concern? I say, embrace your new calling, do the Lord's work with all your strength, and you will be blessed.

[Kenngo1969]

I ... I'm so glad you have reactivated, that you continued the way you did while inactive.  I was inactive for too many years (not endowed)... years that I have deep regret over,  but there's nothing I can do about them... when I pray, often I will say how sorry I am that I cannot bring back those years, but all I can do is go forward every day and year from now till my appointed time comes to a close.  So I encourage you to not let anything or anyone stand in your way of continuing on as you are... fulfill this calling and rely on the Spirit and on the Savior...  all good wishes...

 

GG

I recently read the book My Name Used to Be Mohammed, by Jeff Benedict with Tito Momen.  It tells the story of Bro. Momen's exceedingly unlikely conversion from Islam to Mormonism.  Personally, I think if someone subscribes to a certain religious tradition, he should be the best [fill-in-the-blank] he can be, whether that blank is filled with the word Mormon, the words Roman Catholic, the words evangelical Protestant, or, as in Brother Momen's case, with the word Muslim.  This is the thought I had when I read about Bro. Momen's growing disaffection with (indeed, his apostasy from) Islam, as not only did he begin to doubt Islam, he began to do things that are frowned upon in both Islam and Christianity.  

 

However, as I read further, Bro. Momen speaks of this period of his life as a necessary step in his transition to Mormonism, because while he was a faithful Muslim, he was being groomed for the clergy: had he not experienced the things he did, he would not have recognized his initial interest in, and curiosity about, Mormonism as God's attempt to rescue him from a lifestyle which included indulgences that are frowned upon in both faiths. While Bro. Momen does not explicitly state this, he clearly implies that, had he continued faithful to the extreme brand of Islam favored by his father and most of the people in his home village, not only would he have become an imam, he would have become a radical imam.

 

Ideally, while I think the Lord certainly would be pleased if no one (of whatever religious or irreligious persuasion), e.g., broke the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Chastity, I believe, nonetheless, that sometimes, one cannot realize the full benefit of these commandments without having broken them first.  Bro. Momen believes that everything he did, including some of the things that the Lord was not pleased with, was integral in helping him find the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and become the person that he is today.  Now, perhaps my analogy is inapt, because no one necessarily need suppose that the Silhouettes and the Garden Girls of the world were guilty of "great or malignant sins" during their respective periods of disassociation with the Church of Jesus Christ, but I do wonder if, nonetheless, Bro. Momen's perspective might be useful to a great many people who, like the Prodigal Son, "come unto themselves" and desire to return to full fellowship.  I think that's a big part of the reason why the Savior gave the Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard: every laborer was paid the same, whether they had labored for one hour or for the whole day.  God cares less about where we are, currently, on the path, than about the direction in which we (however haltingly) are moving.

 

Paul tells the Romans in Romans 8:28 that "all things work together for the good of them that love God": not just the "good" things that happen to us, or necessarily even the "good" things we do (since, no matter how many good things we do, we still must rely on Christ's grace, freely given through His Atonement, to be able to make it back to our Father in Heaven), but all things.  That's part of the answer to the "problem of evil."  For example, horrendous, unspeakable things happened to Elizabeth Smart, but she has taken those things and made them a big part of her mission in mortality.  At the risk of using a trite analogy, if it can be said of anyone that she has made lemonade out of life's lemons, it can be said of Elizabeth Smart.  Likewise, I doff my chapeau to the Silhouettes and the Garden Girls of the world who have "made lemonade" out of former periods of inactivity in the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

P.S.: Silhouette, I realize this is all off-topic.  I apologize.  I can't really add anything that's pertinent to the subject except to endorse the good advice you have already received.  Pray to know which, among all of the viable courses of action that have been commended to you, is the one you should follow, and then follow the one the Spirit reveals.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[lds-convert-sw]

Personally, I think the bishop was probably right to tell you of the presidency's reaction. Let's face it: if the presidency is that against having you in this calling, you are going to pick up on that. You do not need to be gaslighted by insincere protests of, "of course we are so happy to have you working with us!" It's better to go in knowing what the situation is, but also knowing absolutely that the bishop received revelation that YOU are to be given this calling.

I agree with CV75 that you would do well to directly approach the presidency.

Traela, Hi. I'm new here, so if I don't follow protocol, please tell me. What I'd like to say is, I know that the Stake Presidency is "above" the Bishop, but if the Bishop has made a decision, shouldn't the presidency respect that decision? Personally, I find it hard to believe they would get involved, why bother? It's the Bishop's call on who to sustain to a calling.

[Calm]

Not talking about the Stake, but one of the auxiliaries' presidencies who she will be working with (RS, YW, or Primary)

[lds-convert-sw]

Not talking about the Stake, but one of the auxiliaries' presidencies who she will be working with (RS, YW, or Primary)

oops Sorry. Yep, you're right, thanks for the correction.

[Calm]

No problem.

[Silhouette]

I recently read the book My Name Used to Be Mohammed, by Jeff Benedict with Tito Momen. It tells the story of Bro. Momen's exceedingly unlikely conversion from Islam to Mormonism. Personally, I think if someone subscribes to a certain religious tradition, he should be the best [fill-in-the-blank] he can be, whether that blank is filled with the word Mormon, the words Roman Catholic, the words evangelical Protestant, or, as in Brother Momen's case, with the word Muslim. This is the thought I had when I read about Bro. Momen's growing disaffection with (indeed, his apostasy from) Islam, as not only did he begin to doubt Islam, he began to do things that are frowned upon in both Islam and Christianity.

However, as I read further, Bro. Momen speaks of this period of his life as a necessary step in his transition to Mormonism, because while he was a faithful Muslim, he was being groomed for the clergy: had he not experienced the things he did, he would not have recognized his initial interest in, and curiosity about, Mormonism as God's attempt to rescue him from a lifestyle which included indulgences that are frowned upon in both faiths. While Bro. Momen does not explicitly state this, he clearly implies that, had he continued faithful to the extreme brand of Islam favored by his father and most of the people in his home village, not only would he have become an imam, he would have become a radical imam.

Ideally, while I think the Lord certainly would be pleased if no one (of whatever religious or irreligious persuasion), e.g., broke the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Chastity, I believe, nonetheless, that sometimes, one cannot realize the full benefit of these commandments without having broken them first. Bro. Momen believes that everything he did, including some of the things that the Lord was not pleased with, was integral in helping him find the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ and become the person that he is today. Now, perhaps my analogy is inapt, because no one necessarily need suppose that the Silhouettes and the Garden Girls of the world were guilty of "great or malignant sins" during their respective periods of disassociation with the Church of Jesus Christ, but I do wonder if, nonetheless, Bro. Momen's perspective might be useful to a great many people who, like the Prodigal Son, "come unto themselves" and desire to return to full fellowship. I think that's a big part of the reason why the Savior gave the Parable of the Laborers in the Vineyard: every laborer was paid the same, whether they had labored for one hour or for the whole day. God cares less about where we are, currently, on the path, than about the direction in which we (however haltingly) are moving.

Paul tells the Romans in Romans 8:28 that "all things work together for the good of them that love God": not just the "good" things that happen to us, or necessarily even the "good" things we do (since, no matter how many good things we do, we still must rely on Christ's grace, freely given through His Atonement, to be able to make it back to our Father in Heaven), but all things. That's part of the answer to the "problem of evil." For example, horrendous, unspeakable things happened to Elizabeth Smart, but she has taken those things and made them a big part of her mission in mortality. At the risk of using a trite analogy, if it can be said of anyone that she has made lemonade out of life's lemons, it can be said of Elizabeth Smart. Likewise, I doff my chapeau to the Silhouettes and the Garden Girls of the world who have "made lemonade" out of former periods of inactivity in the Church of Jesus Christ.

P.S.: Silhouette, I realize this is all off-topic. I apologize. I can't really add anything that's pertinent to the subject except to endorse the good advice you have already received. Pray to know which, among all of the viable courses of action that have been commended to you, is the one you should follow, and then follow the one the Spirit reveals.

I don't think your comments are off-topic at all. I think that Garden Girl and I started discussing a new aspect of what's going on, and so the subject got redirected a bit, which is fine, because I need advice on all aspects of this issue. From the basic concern that those people do not want me in the organization, to the repentance aspect of it all, to what I can do for my children; I am thankful for commentary on all of it.

I know what I should do and how I will proceed. I had already made up my mind to enter the position with the desire and intent to do the best I can, and allow myself to be guided by the Spirit in all of my endeavors pertaining to the calling.

I am hoping that perhaps, once I am set apart, the mantle of the calling will settle about me comfortably and put my concerns to rest.

I have decided not to let on right now that I know of the leadership's concerns about me. I will go in with love and an open mind, and see what that attitude, along with the Spirit, can accomplish.

That takes care of how to approach the calling by itself. More troubling is the repentance part of things. Someone mentioned in their comments to me that perhaps the Bishop's intent in this regard is to help satisfy a desire in me to "pay" for my sins pertaining to my children. I've given this some thought, and perhaps they are correct. I definitely feel a need to sacrifice something of myself in the hope that Heavenly Father, in all His goodness and mercy, will help guide my poor children back, and somehow "fix" the mess that my neglect created for them.

The depth of my sorrow is such that I would give my life if doing so would help my children come unto Christ and embrace the Gospel.

It's not just that we went inactive when they were small. It's that I knew better, the Spirit tried to guide me, and still I DELIBERATELY stayed away even though I knew better. And it's not only my children. I also led my husband away at the same time. He is now inactive, drinks wine every night, and refuses to come to Church. And it's MY fault, and mine alone. He was once the Elder's Quorum President, and was a wise and loving leader, husband, and father. His joy at us being sealed in the temple was like a child's joy at discovering something wonderful, like a fairy or something. And my actions caused him to reject everything, led him astray, and ruined my childrens' spiritual well-being. My whole family is "in the world", and it's all MY fault. I'm the one who wanted to stop attending Church. I'm the one who argued when my husband insisted we go. He finally stopped trying. I'm the one who didn't want visiting or home teachers anymore. I'm the one who couldn't be bothered to take the children to Primary activities. And all the while, I knew I was doing wrong. And I did not care.

So yes, my sorrow runs deep. My agony as I watch my son drink beer, and my daughter go on birth control pills, is immeasurable. My son is bringing his girlfriend home from Hawaii for Christmas. He wants her to sleep in his room. My husband said it was fine. I said I didn't like it. I was overuled...because "They're probably already doing it, it's a little late to try to introduce morals," says my husband.

And it's all MY fault. There was a time when my husband and I went to the Oakland, California temple for date night every single Friday night for years. The last time I went I was 5 months pregnant with our son. Our son is 22 now.

So yes, the need to make restitution burns within me. Three people's lives have been changed for the worse, led away from Christ, and are all in various degrees of sin. And it's all MY FAULT.

I'm sorry this is so long. I hadn't meant to go on with all of this and burden you guys with it, but this calling has brought it all to the fore. Thanks for all your patience.

Love,

Melanie

Edited November 21, 2014 by Silhouette

[Calm]

It is not all your fault. Your husband could have chosen to stay true in his heart even if he gave up trying. If he was a EQ pres and attending the temple, he knows the consequences of his actions as much as you do and he had as much right and influence of the Spirit in his life as you did. I know plenty of spouses who keep the WoW, read scriptures, pray, etc. even while not attending to keep family harmony. It is impossible for you to take away your family's agency. They are not your puppets. It is insulting to your husband to take the blame all on yourself and it won't help him to change and become a better person if you refuse to allow him to be responsible.

It is harder to tell with your kids what influence you had on them and what other influence might be encouraging them to make the mistakes they are making. But they have the light of Christ in their lives and are making their own choice whether or not to listen to him. It is not right to either belittle their ability to feel Christ or his ability to help direct them. You are not helping them by making excuses for them. Why should they change if they can blame you for all their problems?

My mom keeps going on about mistakes she made as a parent, it ticks me off it has been going on for so long. She did the best she could. She did not intentionally harm us and loved us to the best of her ability. I am who I am because of what I did with what she gave me, to keep second guessing herself conveys the message I am not good enough in her view...though I know this is not what she really means, she just doesn't understand the message she is giving because she is so focused on what she did she is ignoring the implications of what she is thinking.

Wasting energy and focusing on what might have beens may prevent you from seeing opportunities to help others be the best they can be in the here and now with what they've got. Don't give into the temptation to wallow in past choices gone wrong, that is the despair that the natural (wo)man wants to give into so she doesn't have to work or change now.

Edited November 21, 2014 by calmoriah