What Is The Biggest Threat To The Church?

[Ahab]

As long as any church is run by men, whether inspired or not, there will always be some level of apostacy. This is true for membership and the church in general. Why? Because no person or organization is perfect. If it's not perfect, then there is error. Error in organization. Error in teaching, doctrine, culture, philosophy, policy etc. The church is not perfect. Any claim to the contrary is just scary.

A thread about what it takes to form an apostate church may be helpful for some people. The fact that some members of the true church can fall away (aka become apostates) doesn't make the true church apostate. At worst it's just that, in a particular place, nobody there can become a member of the true church unless someone comes who has the authority to confirm someone else as a member. Edited September 29, 2014 by Ahab

[Deborah]

It's biggest threat to the institutional church is itself.

1. It has trouble changing to meet the needs of an increasingly international and diverse church.

2. It's missionary program is becoming increasingly irrelevant largely due to its business type model.

3. It does not know how to appeal to its youth and young adults.

These 3 iMO are the live bloods of the church. If you can get this right, and quickly, you don't have a church in a generation or two.

 

You obviously aren't familiar with the new youth curriculum. I think given the diversity of the church in the world it is doing very well. And as far as missionary work I don't know how it becomes irrelevant "using a business type model."

[VideoGameJunkie]

The biggest threat are people like me. Well meaning members who make too many threads and ask too many questions.

[Daniel2]

I'm surprised no one's just said "gays, feminists, and intellectuals."

I'm also surprised that four people picked gay marriage. I still haven't heard any rational explanation how the civil marriages of gay couples threatens the church in any way.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Daniel2

[Rivers]

I'm surprised no one's just said "gays, feminists, and intellectuals."

I'm also surprised that four people picked gay marriage. I still haven't heard any rational explanation how the civil marriages of gay couples threatens the church in any way.

With gay marriage becoming legal and acceptable in society at large, the church looks more and more out of touch. The church is seen as bigoted. Therefore, many people leave and less people want to join. I'm not sure if gay marriage is the biggest threat but it is definitely near the top of the list.

Come to think of it, Packer was actually dead on by saying that gays, feminists, and intellectuals were the biggest threats. Think about it. Every difficult issue the church is facing falls under one of these three categories: LGBT issues, gender issues, and intellectual issues.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Rivers

[HappyJackWagon]

 

HappyJackWagon, on 29 Sept 2014 - 4:11 PM, said:

As long as any church is run by men, whether inspired or not, there will always be some level of apostacy. This is true for membership and the church in general. Why? Because no person or organization is perfect. If it's not perfect, then there is error. Error in organization. Error in teaching, doctrine, culture, philosophy, policy etc. The church is not perfect. Any claim to the contrary is just scary.

Ahab wrote: A thread about what it takes to form an apostate church may be helpful for some people. The fact that some members of the true church can fall away (aka become apostates) doesn't make the true church apostate. At worst it's just that, in a particular place, nobody there can become a member of the true church unless someone comes who has the authority to confirm someone else as a member.

 

Ahab, you miss the entire point. These people can also be leaders, teaching incorrect and/incomplete doctrines. What happens when the prophet teaches a false doctrine? This creates a level of apostacy from the truth.

 

If you're claiming the COJCOLDS will never be apostate, fine. If you're saying that the COJCOLDS is not the true church because be it always has taught incomplete/incorrect doctrines and therefore can not be the True Church of Christ, fine. But as long as humans are involved in any kind of organization it will be imperfect and will therefore be apostate on some level.

[Ahab]

The biggest threat are people like me. Well meaning members who make too many threads and ask too many questions.

Yeah! Like go out and get a real life or something!

Nah, really, my bro, you are a good example of how a good person should be. You just need to try to spread your goodness around to some other real people, like going to YSA or SA events (I don't know how old/young you are so whichever group for your age range). I met my now wife at sn event like that and if I found somebody who would be my bestest buddy then you can too.

[Ahab]

Ahab, you miss the entire point. These people can also be leaders, teaching incorrect and/incomplete doctrines. What happens when the prophet teaches a false doctrine? This creates a level of apostacy from the truth.

If you're claiming the COJCOLDS will never be apostate, fine. If you're saying that the COJCOLDS is not the true church because be it always has taught incomplete/incorrect doctrines and therefore can not be the True Church of Christ, fine. But as long as humans are involved in any kind of organization it will be imperfect and will therefore be apostate on some level.

No, you missed my point. Teaching errors are not what makes a church apostate. You apparently don't understand that and what it does take to make a church an apostate church so another thread on that issue may be helpful to you. I don't want to say too much to derail this thread, but I'll give you a hint by saying it's more about conveying authority than teachings

[toon]

The greatest threat to the Church is [iNSERT POLITICAL PET PEEVE].

[HappyJackWagon]

No, you missed my point. Teaching errors are not what makes a church apostate. You apparently don't understand that and what it does take to make a church an apostate church so another thread on that issue may be helpful to you. I don't want to say too much to derail this thread, but I'll give you a hint by saying it's more about conveying authority than teachings

So as long as there is a line of authority there is no apostacy? Really? Interesting. As long as a church has a line of authority they can teach what they will and that does not constitute apostacy?

 

And here I believed there was a great apostacy in Christ's original church yet the catholic church has a continuous line of authority. Surely that's not your argument. However, if you'd like to provide a reference as opposed to merely mentioning another site for me to look at I'd be happy to review it.

[HappyJackWagon]

I suppose the Community of Christ, Restoration branches & FLDS church's are not apostate. They can trace their authority the same as we can. This authority has been passed on through families for generations. You can claim that they no longer have the authority but why? Because they are apostate? Why are they apostate? Because they wandered from the teachings of the church.

[Tacenda]

How bout' lack of transparency?  Nothing creates more distrust then being deceived.  Or feeling lied to.  The church needs to continue with the essays, figure out however possible to get things out.  After that, then people will most likely just chalk it up to human error.  But the leaders covering up history, that's a current leader error that may not be so easy to swallow. 

[Ahab]

So as long as there is a line of authority there is no apostacy? Really? Interesting. As long as a church has a line of authority they can teach what they will and that does not constitute apostacy?

You do understand that the Church is the people in it, don't you? And that there are now many members who teach things as truth that are in error? Even when people who have our Lord's authority have authorized them to teach others.

So yes all it takes for the true Church to be the true Church is that it be the one authorized by our Lord, with his priesthood, having the same officers and powers and ordinances that he has authorized.

And here I believed there was a great apostacy in Christ's original church yet the catholic church has a continuous line of authority.

If you'd give it some more thought you would probably realize it is impossible for "Christ's church" to ever be in apostasy. Christ's church is not an apostate church, and it never can be, otherwise he would not have a church anywhere, whether in heaven or on this Earth. There would be nobody like Peter, James and John who could br sent here to restore the priesthood because they would be apostates too, if his church was apostate. So no, truth is not what it takes to make the true church the true church, because as long as the priesthood is present in the church as it should be, with at least 1 person other than Christ with his priesthood who is also a member of his church, that person can overcome any errors he believes and may teach others as he learns truth from God.

Surely that's not your argument. However, if you'd like to provide a reference as opposed to merely mentioning another site for me to look at I'd be happy to review it.

Nah, go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. You can learn from God too if you want to. Edited September 30, 2014 by Ahab

[mnn727]

Biggest threat - people that take all scripture as 100% historical and true.

[Jb27]

Biggest threat to the Church? Don't know, don't think any one knows except those with the keys to know -- if necessary. But I do know that it is the Lord's Church and He can handle any threat, large or small. My responsibilities are to honor covenants I have made with Him, always with a healthy dose of a broken heart and contrite spirit, and to prayerfully address real and possible threats to my stewardship areas. This scripture comes to mind: The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth. D&C 65:2

[sethpayne]

Rob Bowman & The Nehor

Edited October 1, 2014 by sethpayne

[The Nehor]

Danite being publicly exposed. Don't worry. We are careful.

[Carebear0411]

 

But there will never need to be another restoration - the Church and Priesthood and ordinances have been restored correctly for the last time.

Agreed! Since apostasy would require another restoration, it follows that the leadership of the church has not and will not apostatize.

Do our leaders make errors that are not tantamount to God's children losing their exaltation? Yes. However, God will not allow an error to stay in place indefinitely that will affect eternal life. Thus, if the women of the church were ever supposed to have had the PH to complete their exaltation, it would have been made so long before the last moment of the last hour of the Earth's Mortal sojourn. If those with sexual urges other than heterosexuality were to be acceptable to The Lord, that too would have been made manifest long before now. And for those who bring up the proclamation concerning all men receiving the PH to justify all the calls for "progressive change" in the church - historically, the PH was available to all men...that changed under BY. It has never been available to all women. Nor has it ever been available to those who engage in sexual deviations. God is not a progressive. He is the same yesterday, today and always. This is His church.

[Carebear0411]

As long as any church is run by men, whether inspired or not, there will always be some level of apostacy. This is true for membership and the church in general. Why? Because no person or organization is perfect. If it's not perfect, then there is error. Error in organization. Error in teaching, doctrine, culture, philosophy, policy etc. The church is not perfect. Any claim to the contrary is just scary.

Apostasy is rejection. A person can apostatize if he/she chooses to leave the church. For a whole church to fall into apostasy, it would have to be rejected of The Lord. That is what happened after the apostles were killed and false doctrine became predominant. The Lord rejected the "church" and removed it's PH authority to act in His name.

That is what will never happen again.

So, if leaders of His church present false doctrine, The Lord will correct that doctrine IN HIS OWN DUE TIME. But, His leaders in these last days will not present doctrine so off the mark as to call for His rejection (apostasy) again. That has been promised.

All this silly talk about whether the Church is in danger is just that...silly. Do we as individual members need to stay sharp and strong in out testimonies so as not to be in danger of individual apostasy...absolutely.

[rockpond]

Agreed! Since apostasy would require another restoration, it follows that the leadership of the church has not and will not apostatize.

Do our leaders make errors that are not tantamount to God's children losing their exaltation? Yes. However, God will not allow an error to stay in place indefinitely that will affect eternal life. Thus, if the women of the church were ever supposed to have had the PH to complete their exaltation, it would have been made so long before the last moment of the last hour of the Earth's Mortal sojourn. If those with sexual urges other than heterosexuality were to be acceptable to The Lord, that too would have been made manifest long before now. And for those who bring up the proclamation concerning all men receiving the PH to justify all the calls for "progressive change" in the church - historically, the PH was available to all men...that changed under BY. It has never been available to all women. Nor has it ever been available to those who engage in sexual deviations. God is not a progressive. He is the same yesterday, today and always. This is His church.

But who's to say that we are at the "last moment". Plenty of time left for additional revelation!

[Robert F. Smith]

With gay marriage becoming legal and acceptable in society at large, the church looks more and more out of touch. The church is seen as bigoted. Therefore, many people leave and less people want to join. I'm not sure if gay marriage is the biggest threat but it is definitely near the top of the list.

Come to think of it, Packer was actually dead on by saying that gays, feminists, and intellectuals were the biggest threats. Think about it. Every difficult issue the church is facing falls under one of these three categories: LGBT issues, gender issues, and intellectual issues.

On the other hand, it is precisely the churches which are the most accepting of these alternative lifestyles which are losing members the quickest.  Only the churches which adhere to traditional values are actually growing and retaining overall membership.  This is likewise true within Judaism.  Only within the orthodox and ultra-orthodox sectors of Judaism do you see growth.  This will remain true even as the secular portion of society also grows in numbers.

 

The LDS Church itself was once also quite out of touch, as it practiced the polygynous lifestyle -- and grew by leaps and bounds.  Islam still practices plural marriage and is growing very quickly.  So maybe it depends on which weird lifestyle one adopts, and how strongly one makes it convincingly important.

[JLHPROF]

But who's to say that we are at the "last moment". Plenty of time left for additional revelation!

 

D&C 77:6 -

Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

 

It's hard to measure time exactly, but we know that it's been 2000 years since Christ and that the Millennium will be 1000 years.  That's 3000 years.

Now, no matter how we measure the time from Christ backwards to Adam, given what we know of Egyptian and Sumerian/Babylonian, that it's probably around 4000 years.  That's our 7000 temporal years.

We ARE close to the Millennium.  We just don't know whether it's 5 years, 50 years, or 100 years.  But even allowing a reasonable margin for error scripture says we DON'T have centuries left till the Millennium starts.

Edited October 1, 2014 by JLHPROF

[rockpond]

D&C 77:6 -

Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

 

It's hard to measure time exactly, but we know that it's been 2000 years since Christ and that the Millennium will be 1000 years.  That's 3000 years.

Now, no matter how we measure the time from Christ backwards to Adam, given what we know of Egyptian and Sumerian/Babylonian, that it's probably around 4000 years.  That's our 7000 temporal years.

We ARE close to the Millennium.  We just don't know whether it's 5 years, 50 years, or 100 years.  But even allowing a reasonable margin for error scripture says we DON'T have centuries left till the Millennium starts.

Like I said... Plenty of time left to receive any remaining critical revelation.

[BCSpace]

The overarching political organization that supports the first two on the OP's list and it's general philosopy is the greatest outside threat to the Church as it is a continuation of Satan's plan to destroy agency and redefine morality.  The greatest threat from inside the Church are we ourselves to the extent we don't believe, do our duty, or stand up for what's right as LDS doctrine defines right.

[Mystery Meat]

I would like to change my answer:

 

There is no threat to the Church. It will continue to push forward, attracting those of pure heart and real intent.

 

As individuals, we each face our own threats to our own happiness and potentially our own eternal standing. A few of the more common ones, I imagine, are pornography, political persuasions, pornography, indifference, pornography, a cultural that taints everyone it touches, pornography, the internet and throw pornography in there for good measure.