What Is The Biggest Threat To The Church?

[Hamba Tuhan]

But we still think just like those who turned away from the original church, because it is part of our culture in the west.

 

That's a problem. 

 

Yep.

[Robert F. Smith]

I have been thinking about this for a while. What is the biggest threat to the church that would or may cause members to fall away, become apostate, enemies?

 

Is it this women and the priesthood thing?

Is it the issue of Same Sex Marriage?

Is it Mormon History and issues with things like polygamy?

Is it the churches stance on morals- things like dress standards, morality, same sex attraction, etc?

Is it something else?

 

Personally I see it as the issue of Same sex Marriage being the biggest threat to the church.

You are quite wrong here, Ron, because the SSM thing has only to do with non-traditional marriage restrictions -- something the Mormons are still famous for.  Overturning Reynolds v USA (1878) would only justify the original position of the LDS Church, just as the overturning of the Dredd Scott Decision gave new life to the living and inspired U. S. Constitution.  Facing reality strengthens rather than weakens.

 

If there were a single major threat to the LDS Church it could only be that Mormons themselves become complacent, thinking that they don't even need to study it out in their minds for themselves and then ask God if it be true, i.e., just living on borrowed light and leaving the details to someone in authority.  The best approach to the Mormon religion might not be to claim that "all is well in Zion."

[Robert F. Smith]

Pride within its membership. Despair within the membership is probably second.

Correct on your first selection.  Missed entirely on your second.

You deserve a rep point, Nehor.

[Robert F. Smith]

the biggest threat, is the unpreparedness of the exising members, that do 80% of the heavy lifting to keep the church afloat. They are un inocculated for hearing the shotgun style criticisms from the church. Now that its available in one click, one letter, one website, etc. hearing the attacks is going to pass through the existing membership like a virus . most are unprepared. what we are seeing now are early signs.

 

I dont think the CES letter is well done ,or  perfect. but when i say "shotgun style criticisms" what i mean, is that roughly most of what is contained in that letter, will be presented to most members in the next 5-10 years. many will leave.

Good thing that most Mormons won't be facing such despair, but you and the Nehor can ruminate about that later.

 

Instead of "shotgun style criticims," you might instead consider Shogun style criticisms, i.e., criticisms similar to the ones accurately directed at the long-term Tokagawa Shogunate just before it fell.  The key is accuracy.  Runnells letter to his CES Director was a result of near total ignorance of Mormonism, which is nothing new at all.  The difference is that Runnells is angry and easily led by others, and the occasion he sought finally came his way, and he struck out like a blind rattle-snake.  But he didn't get no wabbit.  He just thunk it.

[Robert F. Smith]

But seriously, I would have to say "the Internet". 

 

I think religion works better when a church (or person) can "control the message".   This just isn't possible anymore, and now that LDS with different (and shall we say "less traditional" or "less orthodox") beliefs can support each other through informal online communication, it will vastly dilute the power of the Church's message (I suspect this will happen to religion in general). 

 

The Church can either adapt by trying to accommodate this wider variety of members, or by being stricter and trying to get more uniformity.  The former seems to be the current approach, but I suspect there will be too much variety and the latter will be the ultimate way they deal with it.

You entirely misconceive the power of the internet and the digital age, cinepro.  Rather than being a threat of any kind, it is a boon and gift to the Holy Priesthood of God, making possible the faster and more effective transmission of the Gospel, along with vastly improved genealogical work and ordinances.  That a few might be lost along the way is the price of doing bidness.

[Robert F. Smith]

For me personally, I see it as those within the church who excercise unrighteous dominion on others. Here are some examples, I have their names but will not reveal them.

 

There were a couple of Mormon Men, or they said they were Mormon, on Facebook, who intruded on a discussion on women's rights. I have some very good reasons for not wishing the Priesthood, though I do nothing to interfere with the women who want it. We were having a gentle, thoughtful conversation on the issue when these two guys got on there and started acting like the meanest of red necks. I immediately blocked both of them, but the damage was done.

 

I was called to be an Internet Missionary, and when I asked what I was to do, my Bishop said to keep doing what I had been doing. I had a very good relationship with numbers of Missionaries, both Elders and Sisters.  In total, I did that work about three years, when a Woman who had started or seemed to be in charge of a Sister Missionary group suddenly blocked me from further participation in the Missionary group after we had an exchange about Sister Missionaries being just as "called" as Elders.  This was really hurtful. I moved on. Several Sister missionaries asked where I went.

 

I had been really open about my relationship with Muslims because I believe that the church has a future in KSA and other places. I got asked if I was Muslim or Mormon, and told that I would have to choose. If that is the demand, then the person does not understand the mission of Jesus Christ.

 

Who ever is posting church sponsored spots on Facebook has gone way past the mark. For a while there, when I opened up FB it was mostly Mormon content. I felt smothered, and overwhelmed. I eventually closed that account on FB and opened another after a while. There are NO Mormons on that account. It was extremely upsetting and I eventually told my Bishop that I was done with the church, which he appears to have ignored. 

 

Since about April of 2011, No non Mormon, or Muslim said unkind things to me. It hurts that it had to be Mormons that did it. I may eventually open that old account up, and if people are still flooding me with content, they will be blocked. There had been many discussions with Evangelicals, Catholics, and even Muslims about God, Allah SWT, and the content of various books in those faiths. No one had ever been unkind to me except Mormons.

 

As time has passed, the hurt has eased, and I suppose that I am still Mormon, but extremely sympathetic and loving toward Muslims in a way that confuses others, and most certainly me also.

You have a good heart, Ellen.

Just know that those who said those unkind things will later realize their folly.  I know because I said some very dumb things to people when I was young, and have come to deeply regret those words.

Know also that other religious adherents can be just as intolerant and unkind (perhaps moreso) as the Mormons.  Your daily newspaper and the internet make that clear.

So preach tolerance and compassion, truth and understanding when you encounter such thoughtless and divisive behavior.  Be a force for good in a harsh and unfriendly world.

[The Nehor]

Correct on your first selection.  Missed entirely on your second.

You deserve a rep point, Nehor.

 

No, I think despair amongst the membership is a serious problem. Too many take seriously striving to follow the Savior and then feel despair when they fail because they are not willing to let the Savior do the heavy lifting.

[Senator]

Apologists!

[Brian 2.0]

Beards.

[Senator]

Beards.

 

Bearded apologists.

[Brian 2.0]

Bearded apologists.

Now THAT'S end of times stuff.

[EllenMaksoud]

You have a good heart, Ellen.

Just know that those who said those unkind things will later realize their folly.  I know because I said some very dumb things to people when I was young, and have come to deeply regret those words.

Know also that other religious adherents can be just as intolerant and unkind (perhaps moreso) as the Mormons.  Your daily newspaper and the internet make that clear.

So preach tolerance and compassion, truth and understanding when you encounter such thoughtless and divisive behavior.  Be a force for good in a harsh and unfriendly world.

Thank you for your kind words. Shalom

[mfbukowski]

Apologists!

I'm sorry.

 

[AndyDnom]

Crab people.

 

Crab People!  Crab People!  the biggest threat is from gilgamax, clearly.

[AndyDnom]

The biggest threat to the growth of the church though, is the fact that people don't have big families anymore. Even multi generatin western american families that used to have 10+ kids, no one has more than  4 now. That is going to level off growth pretty quickly.

[The Nehor]

Crab People!  Crab People!  the biggest threat is from gilgamax, clearly.

Gamera will protect us from them.

[Storm Rider]

I have been thinking about this for a while. What is the biggest threat to the church that would or may cause members to fall away, become apostate, enemies?

 

Is it this women and the priesthood thing?

Is it the issue of Same Sex Marriage?

Is it Mormon History and issues with things like polygamy?

Is it the churches stance on morals- things like dress standards, morality, same sex attraction, etc?

Is it something else?

 

Personally I see it as the issue of Same sex Marriage being the biggest threat to the church.

 

I did not see any of these issues as endangering the Church of Jesus Christ.  At best they are extremely minor annoyances and situation that cause a great deal of sadness.

 

I have not read any other comments yet on this thread, but I suspect that my concerns would be similar to others.  What I see as the greatest dangers to the Church are pride and ambivalence.  We too often and too quickly grow complacent in our place in the Church and we close our eyes to the suffering of others. I see this as a function of pride of self.  A corollary of this is ambivalence; we too easily find little passion in being righteous or evil.  There is little distinction between the two because we trivialize the need of obedience.  We have grown fat in our focus on our personal wants and desires. Should any of those desires conflict with the teachings of Christ then Christ's teachings are promptly discarded.  We too often envision God through infantile, rose colored glasses; he is only about love; he loves us and therefore we can do anything we choose and he will continue to love us.  His teachings and commandments are really a distant secondary issue for converts to this single, all-encompassing thought.  

 

There is no judgment; there is no bridegroom coming; there is no need to fill our lamps with the oil of holiness and faith.  All we need to do is be who we, focus on our own wants and desires and know that Love is all we need.  It sounds good in a song, but it is drivel when it comes to eternities and walks lockstep with satiating our passions. 

Edited September 28, 2014 by Storm Rider

[Peppermint Patty]

Bears.

[Robert F. Smith]

Apologists!

I gave you a well-deserved rep point for making me chuckle.

[Robert F. Smith]

I did not see any of these issues as endangering the Church of Jesus Christ.  At best they are extremely minor annoyances and situation that cause a great deal of sadness.

 

I have not read any other comments yet on this thread, but I suspect that my concerns would be similar to others.  What I see as the greatest dangers to the Church are pride and ambivalence.  We too often and too quickly grow complacent in our place in the Church and we close our eyes to the suffering of others. I see this as a function of pride of self.  A corollary of this is ambivalence; we too easily find little passion in being righteous or evil.  There is little distinction between the two because we trivialize the need of obedience.  We have grown fat in our focus on our personal wants and desires. Should those desires conflict with the teachings of Christ then his teachings are thrown discarded because God is only about love and he loves us and therefore we can do anything we choose and he will continue to love us.  There is not judgment; there is no bridegroom coming; there is no need to fill our lamps with the oil of holiness and faith.  All we need to do is be who we are and love everyone.  

A good deal of wisdom here.  Keep on ridin' that storm, good buddy!

[Deborah]

None of the above, it is pride, hypocrisy, gossip, and close minded, careless, and rude members.  

When members are not friendly to everybody for no reason.  

 

If you take away all of that, we will have more active members and less inactive members. 

 

Though I don't think this is necessarily a threat to the church, it is a hindrance to individual members. My grandson won't go to church because of the way he has been treated by his peers and even the Bishop at church. It's one thing when you are firmly grounded in testimony when you meet such people but when you are struggling to find your testimony it can keep you from moving forward. If he were in my ward he would have such a different experience and would find such acceptance and has already experienced that when he has visited. I think those who treat others in such a way will be accountable some day.

[Deborah]

But seriously, I would have to say "the Internet". 

 

 

But the internet is also a great boon to the church. It has enabled genealogy and family temple work to move forward as never before. We just need to make sure our people are directed to the websites that are faith promoting. I've heard so much criticism of the church website as being "milk" only but I don't think people have looked deep enough. The church history pages, the Joseph Smith Papers pages, etc have so much detailed information that is faith promoting. I've been getting more into the history of the church not just here but in the world and there is so much that is evidence to me of the hand of the Lord in every land.

[katherine the great]

Bingo.

 

The Great Apostasy occurred solely because the early Saints, in their pride, 'turned away' from the authorised apostles, gave 'heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils', and were 'led away with the error of the wicked'.

 

Oh you mean the ones who weren't persecuted and thrown to the lions, tortured and executed because they would not forsake their testimonies?  I get a little annoyed at broad strokes used to paint the early Christians.  Many of them were brave souls willing to die for their faith.  Many undoubtedly left the faith to save their lives and the lives of their families. Without that environment present now it's hard to surmise how many of us wouldn't have done the same--parental protective instincts can be very strong.  I don't see much difference between then and now, except that there were fewer of them and in a smaller geographical area.

[katherine the great]

But the internet is also a great boon to the church. It has enabled genealogy and family temple work to move forward as never before. 

Amen to that!  I love ancestry.com!

[Rivers]

The greatest threat is spiritual dependency. Members become too reliant on the institutional church for spiritual nourishment and have nothing to fall back on when all the church's flaws are exposed. You need to have a strong spiritual foundation for when the rains come down and floods come up.

I would also a agree with Cinepro that the internet is a humungous threat to the church. There are so many competing worldviews to which members of the church are exposed. It becomes very easy to be persuaded by different ways of understanding things.