Mormons "getting Their Own Planet" (Merged)

[Guest]

But don't what prophets say count as scripture? I mean isn't General Conferences and stuff from Thomas S Monson modern day scripture?

They are also men, and all men are subject to error. Also this desire is unflattering vanity. We should be content with what God wants for us and be humble without being prideful ambush to a fault. If we are indeed willing and wanting to follow our leaders.

[Storm Rider]

As a Christian, I believe Jesus is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among men. That Word that was fulfilled was the Old Testament. The New Testament reveals in Christ the promises of the Old Testament through the life Jesus lead and his teachings. I place no other book above the Bible. And I certainly do not imagine that the Bible is inferior to the "revelation" of any latter day prophet. Contradictions discovered between the Bible any ANYOTHER book only enforces the inferiority of the other book. The Bible is the Christians standard.

 

LittleNipper, which bible are we talking about?  Is it the Protestant Bible with 39 books or the Catholic Bible with either 46 or 47 depending upon who is counting?  

 

There is a difference between contradiction and blank slate.  The Bible simply does not address every truth in the world; the same can be said of the Book of Mormon, which addresses even fewer topics.  

 

Regardless, I do agree with your earlier post that of what is the priority and that is Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected. I don't think anyone here would disagree with that position.  Does that mean we should never discuss anything else?

[LittleNipper]

Well, we could start with the Hebrew Temple Old Testament ---- which excluded all the apocryphal text. To this we can add all those books which have a historic connection to having been written by either a disciple directly under Christ's tutelage, or a disciple directly connected to an Apostle of Christ. This would take us to around 95AD. And this is well within the generation of Jesus.

[LittleNipper]

Do we know everything about God? What is the main concern? Is it more important to recognize one is saved or what one will be doing for eternity? And if it is really important to GOD that we be saved, do you imagine that GOD would clutter everything up with a lot of frivolity that does not concern that point? Once one gets to heaven then God will reveal more. And those that do not go to heaven will have no excuse.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Little Nipper, what branch of Christianity do you worship? Catholic?

[Storm Rider]

Well, we could start with the Hebrew Temple Old Testament ---- which excluded all the apocryphal text. To this we can add all those books which have a historic connection to having been written by either a disciple directly under Christ's tutelage, or a disciple directly connected to an Apostle of Christ. This would take us to around 95AD. And this is well within the generation of Jesus.

 

Based on this definition we might have a degree of difficulty with Paul.  He was not taught by Christ and he did not go to see Peter for a few years as I recall.  Evangelicals are very serious about the Bible and about anyone who takes away or adds to it.  The Bible you have today is directly due to the work of the Catholic Church in the 5th century....but you don't have all their books; they were taken out.  

 

When we invest a standard about what is and what is not the Bible or scripture we create a sword that cuts both ways.  This is a topic that does not belong to this thread, but it is worth considering. 

[Scott Lloyd]

For by Him and Him alone were all things, worlds, powers, and principalities that ever existed and do exist and will exist created --- both seen and unseen. And without God was there nothing created that ever existed, exists or will exist. God is the only God. There are no others.

The passage of scripture you allude to refers specifically to Jehovah, or Jesus Christ. Check it out, and it should be clear to you that this is the case. Where is Elohim, or God the Father, in your scheme? Are you just going to leave Him out of the picture?

Or will you accept the truth that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost together comprise "one God," which ultimately will take in all who become One with Them through the instrumentality of Christ.

I like calmoriah's phrase "the Family of God"; it says a great deal.

[The Nehor]

Little Nipper, what branch of Christianity do you worship? Catholic?

 

I worship Presbyterians. They always look at me oddly when I bow in their presence and pray to them.

[Tacenda]

I worship Presbyterians. They always look at me oddly when I bow in their presence and pray to them.

You devil you!

[mnn727]

 The Bible is the Christians standard.

Thats funny, Christ is OUR standard and should be any Christians.

[LittleNipper]

I would consider myself a Baptist or an Independent Fundamentalist Bible Believing Christian.

Historically they both hold to the following:

One Triune GOD

Inerrancy of the God's Holy Word

Jesus Christ is the ONLY means of Salvation.

Water Baptism is only an outward sign (to the community at large) of an inward change brought about by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The Lord's Supper is a memorial service representing the broken body and spilt blood of Jesus upon the cross.

(And it should only be partaken by those professing Christ as their Personal Savior and only after sincere soul searching.)

Eternal Salvation is for those who at some point place their trust in the Lord.

Eternal punishment for those who repeatedly reject Christ during this life. 

[LittleNipper]

That is funny, because the Bible is the inspired Word of God, written by God selected individuals, to write what God intended, in the way God desired, and protected through God's intervention.  And one usually becomes saved by witnessing the spirit changed lives of average individuals proclaiming the very Savior the Bible proclaims from cover to cover. 

[LittleNipper]

And since I hold to a Triune GOD, there is no problem with the realization that what the Spirit, Son and Father accomplish is a joint venture. In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth.

I also believe that by heavens God eludes to THREE; however, they are as follows:

The Sky is heaven number one

The universe with planets and stars is heaven number two

And the Third heaven is the abode of God. It seems likely to exist in another dimension.

 

And all this finds support in the Bible and that alone.

[Ahab]

Do we know everything about God? What is the main concern? Is it more important to recognize one is saved or what one will be doing for eternity? And if it is really important to GOD that we be saved, do you imagine that GOD would clutter everything up with a lot of frivolity that does not concern that point? Once one gets to heaven then God will reveal more. And those that do not go to heaven will have no excuse.

You don't have to wait until you get to heaven to learn more than you know now. God has revealed a lot, excuse me, a LOT of information about what being "saved" is all about and what those who are saved will be doing on planets.

But we don't really need to get into a lot of the things we have been told that you don't already know. The one piece of the puzzle that would tie it together for you is the knowledge that Adam was known as Michael the archangel who not only fought in the war against Satan but also helped our Lord and our Father create this planet.

The rest of it is just the realization that Adam (and Eve) have also been saved by the atonement of Christ and will therefore be restored to their sinless state as when they lived in the garden of Eden while being able to eat and make babies and also create other planets for the other children they will have through all other generations of time and throughout all eternity.

[LittleNipper]

Oh, Paul was a pious Jew originally named Saul and he attacked Christians, until he saw Christ in a vision and then he went to see the disciples as a changed individual. It could be said that Paul replaced Judas, even though the disciples had already chosen another by lot. So Paul did have first hand interaction with the Apostles of Jesus, who would have recognized Paul's vision and redemption as authentic.

 

Such cannot be said of all visions.

[LittleNipper]

Michael is indeed an archangel; however, he is not Jesus  (JWs) nor is he Adam (LDS). Angels were a special creation of God whose prime directive is to be messengers of GOD. Adam was a human who lost eternal life so as to be more like God, following the lies of Satan. Michael does not redeem nor does he receive redemption. Adam was allowed to name the animals and tend a garden. He never created matter. Humans do not become angles and angels do not become humans. Humans were created a little lower than the angels. 

 

One should be concerned with one's own standing with the LORD while in this life rather than trying to figure which side of the Lord they are going to be seated in the hereafter.......................!

[Vance]

Michael is indeed an archangel; however, he is not Jesus  (JWs) nor is he Adam (LDS). Angels were a special creation of God whose prime directive is to be messengers of GOD.

You guys just don't get it. Angels and men are the same ontologically. John the Baptist was an angel. Just look at the Greek here,

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=11&t=KJV#s=t_conc_940010

With the Hebrew here,

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mal&c=3&t=KJV#s=t_conc_928001

So, the foundation of your argument is NOT supported but destroyed by the Bible.

[Coreyb]

Michael is indeed an archangel; however, he is not Jesus  (JWs) nor is he Adam (LDS). Angels were a special creation of God whose prime directive is to be messengers of GOD. Adam was a human who lost eternal life so as to be more like God, following the lies of Satan. Michael does not redeem nor does he receive redemption. Adam was allowed to name the animals and tend a garden. He never created matter. Humans do not become angles and angels do not become humans. Humans were created a little lower than the angels. 

 

One should be concerned with one's own standing with the LORD while in this life rather than trying to figure which side of the Lord they are going to be seated in the hereafter.......................!

well...    ..I disagree that angels are a special and separate creation. When John tried to worship the angel of the Lord  he said "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God". 

[JLHPROF]

That is funny, because the Bible is the inspired Word of God, written by God selected individuals, to write what God intended, in the way God desired, and protected through God's intervention.  And one usually becomes saved by witnessing the spirit changed lives of average individuals proclaiming the very Savior the Bible proclaims from cover to cover. 

 

You have absolutely NO evidence of this - especially "protected through God's intervention".  It is entirely possible that the Christian councils like Nicea threw out much truth and left in much error.

You speak as if it is historical fact, when it is simply your personal belief.  I personally believe the Doctrine and Covenants/Book of Mormon/Pearl of Great Price to be just as much the word of God as the Bible.  And I have just as much evidence as you do.

[Ahab]

Michael is indeed an archangel; however, he is not Jesus (JWs) nor is he Adam (LDS). Angels were a special creation of God whose prime directive is to be messengers of GOD. Adam was a human who lost eternal life so as to be more like God, following the lies of Satan. Michael does not redeem nor does he receive redemption. Adam was allowed to name the animals and tend a garden. He never created matter. Humans do not become angles and angels do not become humans. Humans were created a little lower than the angels.

One should be concerned with one's own standing with the LORD while in this life rather than trying to figure which side of the Lord they are going to be seated in the hereafter.......................!

Like I said, that bit of information I gave you is what will tie everything on this issue all together for you, once you know it is true.

I know the thought of Adam being Michael is a big mind adjustment for you, along with the idea that he helped our Lord and our Father create this planet, but once you know that is true and then incorporate that knowledge into your current beliefs about what salvation is and what the atonement of Christ does for anyone who is saved everything on this issue will all come together for you.

[HappyJackWagon]

The LDS.org essay, Becoming Like God, certainly downplays the idea of having "our own planet" though church teachings of eternal progression and becoming like God have been clear that exalted beings will be heavily involved in creation. Maybe it sounds embarrassing to the church so they are keeping a little distance but it can't be denied that this has been heavily taught throughout the church for generations.

[Scott Lloyd]

The LDS.org essay, Becoming Like God, certainly downplays the idea of having "our own planet" though church teachings of eternal progression and becoming like God have been clear that exalted beings will be heavily involved in creation. Maybe it sounds embarrassing to the church so they are keeping a little distance but it can't be denied that this has been heavily taught throughout the church for generations.

It has been heavily taught indeed, and probably there has been a bit more in the way of speculation and conjecture unauthoritatively taught as doctrine than is proper, hence the flippant and juvenile "get your own planet" meme. As I've said, I think it best to stick with what can be authoritatively drawn from the scriptures and the consistent teachings of latter-day prophets and apostles.

 

By the way, I like your screen name and am curious about the derivation.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[ERayR]

The LDS.org essay, Becoming Like God, certainly downplays the idea of having "our own planet" though church teachings of eternal progression and becoming like God have been clear that exalted beings will be heavily involved in creation. Maybe it sounds embarrassing to the church so they are keeping a little distance but it can't be denied that this has been heavily taught throughout the church for generations.

 

No but critics and antis have certainly caricatured the doctrine of exaltation and eternal progression into get your own planet.

[mnn727]

That is funny, because the Bible is the inspired Word of God, written by God selected individuals, to write what God intended, in the way God desired, and protected through God's intervention.  

"protected through God's intervention".Explain the Johannine comma then.While you are at it explain why the content of the Bible has changed over time (meaning which books are included  in it)

[ERayR]

"protected through God's intervention".Explain the Johannine comma then.While you are at it explain why the content of the Bible has changed over time (meaning which books are included  in it)

 

God making mid-course correction?