Mormons "getting Their Own Planet" (Merged)

[omni]

When it comes to something they don't want to believe, some LDS have terrible reading comprehension.

I still don't understand the difference between "getting out own planet" and "creating worlds" other than the former is more informal or flippant.

I don't need the "milk" phrases such as "we will be like our Heavenly Father" or we will be "joint heirs". What does this mean? I'm not an investigator, give me the meat! Will we be gods over planets we created and populated with our progeny?

[JLHPROF]

I still don't understand the difference between "getting out own planet" and "creating worlds" other than the former is more informal or flippant.

I don't need the "milk" phrases such as "we will be like our Heavenly Father" or we will be "joint heirs". What does this mean? I'm not an investigator, give me the meat! Will we be gods over planets we created and populated with our progeny?

 

Yes, if worthy to achieve Godhood and after we have been taught how to do it by helping Heavenly Father and our Savior with their creations.  So we may have to assist with many more creations before we get to run one as our Heavenly Father does.  But absolutely yes.  Without this Mormonism might as well be any other protestant religion and we can all enjoy our clouds and harps.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

When it comes to something they don't want to believe, some LDS have terrible reading comprehension.

When it comes to something they they do want to believe, some critics have terrible reading comprehension.

[Scott Lloyd]

I still don't understand the difference between "getting out own planet" and "creating worlds" other than the former is more informal or flippant.

I don't need the "milk" phrases such as "we will be like our Heavenly Father" or we will be "joint heirs". What does this mean? I'm not an investigator, give me the meat! Will we be gods over planets we created and populated with our progeny?

I'm astounded that the concepts of inheriting all that God has and of becoming one with God and Christ, with all the implications of those ideas, seem like "milk" to you. That you seem determined to reduce them into juvenile notions such as "getting your own planet," and that you seem fixated on this notion, indicates to me that you are not as ready for "meat" as you let on.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[ERayR]

I still don't understand the difference between "getting out own planet" and "creating worlds" other than the former is more informal or flippant.

 

 

Getting  your own planet implies egocentric motives.  Organizing worlds does not have that implication instead has connotations of working for and under the direction of God.

[Scott Lloyd]

Yes, if worthy to achieve Godhood and after we have been taught how to do it by helping Heavenly Father and our Savior with their creations.  So we may have to assist with many more creations before we get to run one as our Heavenly Father does.  But absolutely yes.  Without this Mormonism might as well be any other protestant religion and we can all enjoy our clouds and harps.

Your conjecture seems to paint a picture of being off on your own, free-lancing, doing your own thing, "bending the cosmos to your will," as someone here so aptly put it.

 

This seems to ignore the idea of being one with God and Christ.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Vance]

Totally agreed.

 

But "getting my own world" sounds like you "get" to play games with all your little people toys and watch them jump around to your will.

 

"Organizing worlds", plural, has a totally different connotation.  You are giving organization and a plan to perhaps millions of people you can help to achieve exaltation.

 

One implies being a control freak, the other implies serving and helping as many people as you can.  I see that as a big difference.

Sometimes I am tempted to create several sockpuppets so I can give multiple rep points. This is one of those times.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I don't know about you, but I'm excited about the concept of exaltation and will take whatever it entails. But it would be nice to know for certain what exactly it entails. There seems to be some disagreement from members about it.

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't know about you, but I'm excited about the concept of exaltation and will take whatever it entails. But it would be nice to know for certain what exactly it entails. There seems to be some disagreement from members about it.

It's exciting enough for the moment, that I can be content knowing that the specifics will at some point be made known.

 

Meanwhile, some seem to want every detail spelled out now, so much that they will spring on every conjecture, however dubious or antiquated or unauthoritative. I think it wisdom on the part of Church leaders to remain true to what is taught in the scriptures for now and not to go leaping off into speculation and folklore.

[JLHPROF]

Your conjecture seems to paint a picture of being off on your own, free-lancing, doing your own thing, "bending the cosmos to your will," as someone here so aptly put it.

 

This seems to ignore the idea of being one with God and Christ.

 

Absolutely not.  But the idea of "being one with God and Christ" does not prevent progression, learning, and growth.

I believe exactly what is taught in the King Follett discourse (whether canon or not).

That we will ALWAYS answer to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, but that they will progress higher and we will take their place doing what they do now.

It's speculation if you don't believe the KFD to be the word of God.  I 100% believe every word of it to be from God and so consider this no speculation at all.

 

The time will come when as described the Council of the Gods will call the next worthy God to go down and have their own creation.  Presumably the Savior would be the next in line for our eternal family.  But yes, I fully anticipate a time when I will create my own world for my own posterity UNDER THE ABSOLUTE DIRECTION OF GOD AND CHRIST, not of my own desire to bend the cosmos.  I believe that our Heavenly Father is operating under the absolute direction of HIS FATHER in the running of this creation.  And I believe as D&C 130 & the KFD tells us that eventually Heavenly Father will progress to a higher order of Kingdoms and we will answer to him in the council of the God's as we create our creations.

 

It may be "speculation" officially but I believe it to be the ultimate truth of the restoration and Joseph Smith's crowning teaching, and it may not be spelled out in scripture but there is nothing in scripture to teach otherwise either.  It is just our protestant culture bleeding into mormonism.

[strappinglad]

I don't know about you, but I'm excited about the concept of exaltation and will take whatever it entails. But it would be nice to know for certain what exactly it entails. There seems to be some disagreement from members about it.

I can wait to organize worlds. I will be excited to get my hair back!

[stemelbow]

Getting a planet vs making one is reminiscent of teenage kids getting cars versus buying them themselves. Some kids just get them, others earn some money and buy them. Mormonism would be more about a kid earning the bucks to buy one rather than getting it, it seems to me.

[Ahab]

Absolutely not. But the idea of "being one with God and Christ" does not prevent progression, learning, and growth.

I believe exactly what is taught in the King Follett discourse (whether canon or not).

That we will ALWAYS answer to our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, but that they will progress higher and we will take their place doing what they do now.

It's speculation if you don't believe the KFD to be the word of God. I 100% believe every word of it to be from God and so consider this no speculation at all.

The time will come when as described the Council of the Gods will call the next worthy God to go down and have their own creation. Presumably the Savior would be the next in line for our eternal family. But yes, I fully anticipate a time when I will create my own world for my own posterity UNDER THE ABSOLUTE DIRECTION OF GOD AND CHRIST, not of my own desire to bend the cosmos. I believe that our Heavenly Father is operating under the absolute direction of HIS FATHER in the running of this creation. And I believe as D&C 130 & the KFD tells us that eventually Heavenly Father will progress to a higher order of Kingdoms and we will answer to him in the council of the God's as we create our creations.

It may be "speculation" officially but I believe it to be the ultimate truth of the restoration and Joseph Smith's crowning teaching, and it may not be spelled out in scripture but there is nothing in scripture to teach otherwise either. It is just our protestant culture bleeding into mormonism.

Think in more simple terms. This is about creating our own families and providing places for our children to live and learn, as our Father does now. The idea of a group of us "Gods" deciding which of us is ready for our own planet, like, "okay I believe it's Bob's turn now because he hasn't done it yet and is ready" is missing the mark a little because we're going to be making those family decisions with our own spouses, although I'm sure our Fathers will give us some recommendations, as parents and grandparents often do.

Oh, and the progression thing about us taking our Father's position as he moves higher and higher is basically akin to him becoming an even greater and grander grandparent to us as we also move up the ranks of also being great and grand fathers ourselves.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Ahab

[omni]

I'm astounded that the concepts of inheriting all that God has and of becoming one with God and Christ, with all the implications of those ideas, seem like "milk" to you. That you seem determined to reduce them into juvenile notions such as "getting your own planet," and that you seem fixated on this notion, indicates to me that you are not as ready for "meat" as you let on.

 

You ridicule the "juvenile" idea of "getting your own planet" and replace it with easy to digest platitudes about "becoming like our Heavenly Father".  I have heard exaltation described by many our greatest doctrine, so why do we beat around the bush instead of coming right out and declaring boldly what it entails - that we will spend the eternities creating worlds to reign over inhabited by our children. 

 

Read the answer below on the church's own website to the question we've been discussing.

 

 

Do Latter-day Saints believe that they will “get their own planet”?

No. This idea is not taught in Latter-day Saint scripture, nor is it a doctrine of the Church. This misunderstanding stems from speculative comments unreflective of scriptural doctrine. Mormons believe that we are all sons and daughters of God and that all of us have the potential to grow during and after this life to become like our Heavenly Father (see Romans 8:16-17). The Church does not and has never purported to fully understand the specifics of Christ’s statement that “in my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

 

 

 

A non-Mormon reading this would have no idea what we believe on the subject.  What happened to boldly declaring our doctrine?

[JLHPROF]

Think in more simple terms. This is about creating our own families and providing places for our children to live and learn, as our Father does now. The idea of a group of us "Gods" deciding which of us is ready for our own planet, like, "okay I believe it's Bob's turn now because he hasn't done it yet and is ready" is missing the mark a little because we're going to be making those family decisions with our own spouses, although I'm sure our Fathers will give us some recommendations, as parents and grandparents often do.

Oh, and the progression thing about us taking our Father's position as he moves higher and higher is basically akin to him becoming an even greater and grander grandparent to us as we also move up the ranks of also being great and grand fathers ourselves.

 

"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth."  Abraham 4:1

 

"What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said." Joseph Smith KFD

 

"It read first, "The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods"; that is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. No man can teach you more than what I have told you. Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council. I will simplify it in the English language. Oh, ye lawyers and ye doctors who have persecuted me, I want to let you know that the Holy Ghost knows something as well as you do. The head God called together the Gods, and they sat in grand council. The grand councilors sat in yonder heavens and contemplated the creation of the worlds that were created at that time."  - Joseph Smith KFD

 

"Now crowns, thrones, exaltations and dominions are in reserve for thee in the eternal worlds, and the way is opened for thee to return back into the presence of thy Heavenly Father, if thou wilt only abide by and walk in a celestial law, fulfill the designs of thy Creator and hold out to the end that when mortality is laid in the tomb, you may go down to your grave in peace, arise in glory, and receive your everlasting reward in the resurrection of the just, along with thy head and husband.  Thou wilt be permitted to pass by the Gods and angels who guard the gates, and onward, upward to thy exaltation in a celestial world among the Gods.  To be a priestess queen upon thy Heavenly Father’s throne, and a glory to thy husband and offspring, to bear the souls of men, to people other worlds while eternity goes and eternity comes;"  John Taylor

 

 

Yes, I hope to be part of this council of Gods one day, and that one day my world will be one of the creations selected.

[cinepro]

Getting a planet vs making one is reminiscent of teenage kids getting cars versus buying them themselves. Some kids just get them, others earn some money and buy them. Mormonism would be more about a kid earning the bucks to buy one rather than getting it, it seems to me.

 

Except that God says eternal life is a "gift":

 

7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/14.7?lang=eng#6

 

Your analogy seems to be the exact opposite of the popular "Parable of the Bicycle" by Stephen Robinson.  If the parable is correct, Mormonism would be more like a teenager doing all they can to earn a car but not having nearly enough, and so Jesus buys the car for them. 

 

Evangelicals always accuse us of having a "buy your own car" theology, and we always tell them they're wrong, but your post would seem to indicate otherwise.

 

And the whole point of this thread is the idea that we get a "car" (i.e. "planet") at all. 

[stemelbow]

Except that God says eternal life is a "gift":

 

 

 

Your analogy seems to be the exact opposite of the popular "Parable of the Bicycle" by Stephen Robinson.  If the parable is correct, Mormonism would be more like a teenager doing all they can to earn a car but not having nearly enough, and so Jesus buys the car for them. 

 

Evangelicals always accuse us of having a "buy your own car" theology, and we always tell them they're wrong, but your post would seem to indicate otherwise.

 

And the whole point of this thread is the idea that we get a "car" (i.e. "planet") at all.

For real? you are debating me based on my parable? I'm saying making a planet vs getting one handed to ya is different. I ain't debating our role or our non-role in salvation.

Debate outcome:

Stemelbow: 1

Cinepro: entered left field and jumped the fence, never to return.

[Scott Lloyd]

You ridicule the "juvenile" idea of "getting your own planet" and replace it with easy to digest platitudes about "becoming like our Heavenly Father".  I have heard exaltation described by many our greatest doctrine, so why do we beat around the bush instead of coming right out and declaring boldly what it entails - that we will spend the eternities creating worlds to reign over inhabited by our children. 

 

On the contrary, I'm endeavoring to remain true to scripture and authoritative doctrine and to avoid flying off into fits of imagination and speculation, which so often results in folklore and false doctrine. In short I'm insisting on remaining responsible, factual and accurate.

 

Read the answer below on the church's own website to the question we've been discussing.

 

A non-Mormon reading this would have no idea what we believe on the subject.  What happened to boldly declaring our doctrine?

 

Fanciful speculation and imaginings do not equate to doctrine. Being conservative and responsible about what can be drawn from scripture is better than planting false perceptions in the eyes of the outside public. That's how this whole "get your own planet" meme originated. Can we not learn from past experience?

 

And I still maintain that you do a grave injustice to the concept of inheriting all that the Father has by dismissing it and associated doctrines as "empty platitudes."

Edited September 15, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[VideoGameJunkie]

I really like what Arab said about eternal children to be tested and raised in those worlds. Also how Heavenly Father will become a grandfather and great grandfather and so on which will be eternal increase. And we will experience the same eternal increase of posterity and progressing to be Heavenly Father's then grandfather's etc. It's glorious to think about and makes sense.

[Ahab]

"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth." Abraham 4:1

"What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said." Joseph Smith KFD

"It read first, "The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods"; that is the true meaning of the words. Baurau signifies to bring forth. If you do not believe it, you do not believe the learned man of God. No man can teach you more than what I have told you. Thus the head God brought forth the Gods in the grand council. I will simplify it in the English language. Oh, ye lawyers and ye doctors who have persecuted me, I want to let you know that the Holy Ghost knows something as well as you do. The head God called together the Gods, and they sat in grand council. The grand councilors sat in yonder heavens and contemplated the creation of the worlds that were created at that time." - Joseph Smith KFD

"Now crowns, thrones, exaltations and dominions are in reserve for thee in the eternal worlds, and the way is opened for thee to return back into the presence of thy Heavenly Father, if thou wilt only abide by and walk in a celestial law, fulfill the designs of thy Creator and hold out to the end that when mortality is laid in the tomb, you may go down to your grave in peace, arise in glory, and receive your everlasting reward in the resurrection of the just, along with thy head and husband. Thou wilt be permitted to pass by the Gods and angels who guard the gates, and onward, upward to thy exaltation in a celestial world among the Gods. To be a priestess queen upon thy Heavenly Father’s throne, and a glory to thy husband and offspring, to bear the souls of men, to people other worlds while eternity goes and eternity comes;" John Taylor

Digest what you read, bro. Who do you think those "Gods" were if not you and me and our other brothers and sisters with our Father and his wife (or wives) to lead us in the creation and population of this planet? And how will you do what our Father did? You must also create your own family with your wife (or wives) and then a planet for them to live and learn on.

Yes, I hope to be part of this council of Gods one day, and that one day my world will be one of the creations selected.

You've already been a part of our Father's family council so your next step up in progression will be to be the Father of your own family council in heaven and together with your wife (or wives) and children create another planet for them to live and learn on. And as the Father of those children you will be leading the way just as our Father leads (or at least tries to lead) his own children.

[SeekerB]

Since the universe is well organized and efficiently run by our Heavenly Father, who may possibly report to a Higher Authority, there is most likely a Deed of Trust in some celestial office somewhere for the solar system known as Sol including all planets, asteroids, comets, meteors and other orbiting objects wholly contained therein.

 

Now, the big question is, whose name is on the deed, and who witnessed the signature? 

[LittleNipper]

I've heard it said that cults fill in where the Bible leaves off. None of this is Biblical nor of an eternal concern to those that are devoted to the Lord, and not feathering their own nest.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Little Nipper we believe in more than just the Bible. We believe In other books such as the Book of Mormon Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price. Becoming gods is mentioned in Doctrine and Covenants and exaltation is mentioned all throughout scriptures.

[JLHPROF]

I've heard it said that cults fill in where the Bible leaves off. None of this is Biblical nor of an eternal concern to those that are devoted to the Lord, and not feathering their own nest.

 

My big problem with this kind of statement is that your belief is no more non-cultish.

You also have a book of Holy Writ that you follow the teachings of.  You also have beliefs concerning the next life.

What makes your belief any better than mine?  The Bible is no more holy to you than the Doctrine and Covenants is to me.

Biblical is not now nor has it ever been the be all and end all.  Even Christ didn't follow the Bible in his life.

You certainly don't have to agree with my beliefs, but they are no stranger or cultish than yours.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I think when we become exalted we share God's throne which is more like a very large family sofa for all of his exalted children to sit next to Him. D & C 137 has Joseph Smith seeing God and Jesus sitting together on one throne. I think that's what becoming joint heirs with Christ means. We will all share God's throne.