seriously honestly Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use?
bluebell Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 I think i would just assume they are inactive, or active but don't believe 'in the church' and just go to support family.
BCSpace Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 I believe it is an apt description, especially when one uses it to describe themselves. I assume not faithful which is not to say I assume they are necessarily more unrighteous than anyone else beyond D&C 84:42.
Rain Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 They are not believing, but stay active or inactive members of the church. 2
thesometimesaint Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use? Lots depends on where you're at. An active believing Saint in California doesn't have the same cultural reference as the same active believing Saint in Utah. But they both are active believing Saints. 1
The Nehor Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 I assume they are foul demons set in our path to test our faith. The best reaction is to hit he back of their head to knock them unconscious and then perform an exorcism. 4
seriously honestly Posted July 24, 2014 Author Posted July 24, 2014 Haha! Well, I was thinking that maybe I should start calling myself a cultural Mormon. It's probably more accurate than "ex-Mormon" since I'm still on the records. Might reconsider if I'm going to get knocked unconscious by Nehor, though.
Popular Post Mystery Meat Posted July 24, 2014 Popular Post Posted July 24, 2014 I don't get why someone would want to be a cultural mormon. The culture is easily the worst part. Frankly, its downright awful. 5
seriously honestly Posted July 24, 2014 Author Posted July 24, 2014 You think so? I actually quite like the cultural aspect of Mormonism (most of it, at least) 3
JLHPROF Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use? I am surprised that anyone would use that term. But there are many people who live the LDS culture and socialize exclusively with LDS friends. Heck, some members of the Church fall into this category - as a friend once said "the LDS Church is the most expensive social club you can belong to". Here in Utah (and certain areas of Idaho, Arizona etc) there is a definite specific LDS culture - my wife and I often look at people on the street and say to each other "yep, they're LDS". I suppose many people can adopt that culture without being Mormon. Conversely I've had other people describe it as very "Stepford Wives" or "so LDS they squeak" (as in squeaky clean I suppose).
BCSpace Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Conversely I've had other people describe it as very "Stepford Wives" or "so LDS they squeak" (as in squeaky clean I suppose). As a married Mormon man, I can testify that there is very little Stepford about it. Sometimes, I even have to prepare my own food or pick up after myself. 1
3DOP Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use? I would think that It means that you have lost your faith and hate drinking. What if I said I was a cultural Catholic? Same thing. I would be someone who lost my faith and kept drinking. I am sure we could all think of other cultural distinctives if we tried, but if I am not mistaken, the main point of the expression would mean that the party in question is ideologically aligned with infidels. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 I have a special greeting for cultural Mormons: "Good evening, infidels! SILENCE!!! I keel you!" 1
Tacenda Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) As a married Mormon man, I can testify that there is very little Stepford about it. Sometimes, I even have to prepare my own food or pick up after myself. Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma! Edited July 25, 2014 by Tacenda
thesometimesaint Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma! Best of luck. Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place.
Popular Post ERayR Posted July 25, 2014 Popular Post Posted July 25, 2014 Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma! Obviously you have no ability to affect the perceived problems you are worrying about. My question then is this: Why are you stressing over something you do not have any control over? Let the inactives and the very actives fight it out amongst themselves and you just stay above the fray and be your own sweet self. Its easy just be polite, smile a lot and when someone makes a comment about those things just smile and say "Oh I hadn't noticed". 5
Tacenda Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Best of luck. Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place. Obviously you have no ability to affect the perceived problems you are worrying about. My question then is this: Why are you stressing over something you do not have any control over? Let the inactives and the very actives fight it out amongst themselves and you just stay above the fray and be your own sweet self. Its easy just be polite, smile a lot and when someone makes a comment about those things just smile and say "Oh I hadn't noticed".Didn't mean to make this about me, but thank you! I'll take your advice and good luck wishes.
bluebell Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma! I second what ErayR said! Who cares what anyone else thinks! It's your son's wedding day-enjoy it.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 You think so? I actually quite like the cultural aspect of Mormonism (most of it, at least)You got to do what will work for you. I have 0 issues with cultural Mormons. Just don't cheat your self. BTW that last line is spoken of in general terms not you specifically.
Guest Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use?I often tell others...because it is true that I am a "cultural Baptist" The way I teach is how I was taught growing up and has allowed me to connect with investigators in ways that young missionaries can't at times. I was kept teaching the gospel essentials class in the Ward I spent 30 years in because I could connect or be at ease with Baptists who were investigating the Church. Spent even longer in Gospel Doctrine. I love the Church, and love the Baptists.
CV75 Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use?My bias has been influenced by having been raised among cultural Jews. Because one who says he is a cultural Mormon hasn't as old and well-developed a culture to identify with, and because of the attitude in which it was said, it came across as snarky or shallow to me. I probably come across as snooty just for saying that!
Popular Post 3DOP Posted July 25, 2014 Popular Post Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma! Hi Tacenda, There was an old fellow who passed away in our church recently. None of his family ever came to the Traditional Mass with him, but his wife was Catholic and went to Mass in the town where they lived. Thankfully, she was very accommodating about his wishes calling our priest for Last Rites and when the time for the funeral came, she allowed the Old Mass. People who go to the Trad Mass just don't dress the same way as the world does. So I put on a coat and black tie for the occasion, and his former parishioner friends were similarly attired. It is what we are used to doing when we go to Mass. Bear with me and I want to make a point that might give you a little sympathy for "the Pharisees" who sneer at tattoes, pajamas, and underwear used as outer garments. Traditionalists are taught that there is a dignity that we ought to maintain when we go to Mass. We say we believe that Christ is really present, but we don't act like it if we are dressed as though we were going to a day at the beach, or to bed. That is what we are taught, and as much as I like to be casual, I note that if we were to meet a worldly politician, I would dress up, and it usually shames me into at least throwing on a tie. (If for good reason, on your way to or from the job or traveling it is different, and of course we shouldn't judge others). But it can be really hard. How can you think well of some old gal (80?) who shows up in a white T-shirt like I had on as underwear, and trousers, to her own husband's funeral? There were others of them, young adults who were overweight with their big bellies barely enclosed in the clothes that might have fit them when they were teenagers. One chubby girl literally had some kind of backless outfit that showed all of her bra straps. It was "in-your-face" offensive in that atmosphere. Two of the guys kept talking, not whispering, right up front while the faithful were receiving Holy Communion. Nobody talks like that in Church ever, but especially during those moments. I said nothing at the time to anyone but was personally outraged...and yet, my conscience accused me when afterwards I didn't refrain from telling my wife about the frumpy wife of the parishioner who wore the same clothes to the funeral as she was wearing when we visited her husband in the hospital. I could have so easily just talked about how good she was for letting her husband have a Mass that she doesn't appreciate. They have had no instructions as I have, and I condemned them. It can be hard to remember our days before we "converted" and began to understand the reasons for dress standards which to outsiders is stupid and prideful. Anyway, I still want to mention it in confession, and ask for the grace to do better next time. And there will be a next time when I am tempted to despise those who have no appreciation of things for which I have great esteem and reverence. I hope I do better next time. Without condoning ill manners and immodest dress, while maintaining what I know is right about how to behave and dress at Mass, I need to see Christ loving them, and me with them. It is more important that I remember to love than it is to worry about how they act. With true good wishes, without any superior, condescending manner, I need to be welcoming to those who as far as I am concerned are modern day barbarians. It may be that your in-laws will be offended. I hope not. If you detect that they do show their disapproval, maybe you could think of me and pray for them. And maybe they will be gracious, who knows? In any case, I share this so that you might be able to appreciate some of the interior perturbations that can occur in souls who are trying to do right and be good. But we often fail. You know that's God's grace too! Just when we think we are doing so good, when we think we are loving everybody more than ever for His sake, He'll show us that we aren't so perfect in our loving after all. The best of us (not me) are pretty dim reflections of our good Jesus, eh? I hope they are gracious to your family. I really do. If they aren't, I hope you can find it in your heart to try to realize they they are just as weak as those they may be judging. Take pity on us miserable wretches all covered up, and hiding no "tats" in our Sunday best. God bless you and your family at the wedding. Rory Edited July 25, 2014 by 3DOP 5
Yirgacheffe Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Hi Tacenda, But it can be really hard. How can you think well of some old gal (80?) who shows up in a white T-shirt like I had on as underwear, and trousers, to her own husband's funeral? There were others of them, young adults who were overweight with their big bellies barely enclosed in the clothes that might have fit them when they were teenagers. One chubby girl literally had some kind of backless outfit that showed all of her bra straps. It was "in-your-face" offensive in that atmosphere. Two of the guys kept talking, not whispering, right up front while the faithful were receiving Holy Communion. Nobody talks like that in Church ever, but especially during those moments. I said nothing at the time to anyone but was personally outraged...and yet, my conscience accused me when afterwards I didn't refrain from telling my wife about the frumpy wife of the parishioner who wore the same clothes to the funeral as she was wearing when we visited her husband in the hospital. I could have so easily just talked about how good she was for letting her husband have a Mass that she doesn't appreciate. They have had no instructions as I have, and I condemned them. Rory There are a lot of reasons elderly people dress in Tee shirt type tops and pants. My MIL hasn't worn anything that buttons or has a zipper in the back since my FIL died 12 years ago, she simply can't manage those and he used to do them up for her. She also has not worn a dress to events in years because panty hose was just to hard for her to wrestle into and to go without is even more scandalous than pants not to mention that her "big ugly clodhppers" that she wears for surer footing would be completely visible. She really hates those shoes. She has always worried that people would look at her as you did that widow, we just tell here everyone is just glad she could get there. I'm not sure how I feel about your charity being stirred by the fact that she lacked instruction rather than the loss of her husband of presumably many years. Edited July 26, 2014 by Yirgacheffe 1
Robert F. Smith Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 You think so? I actually quite like the cultural aspect of Mormonism (most of it, at least)So did the late professor Sterling McMurrin. He had great respect for Mormon culture and frequently praised the positive aspects of the LDS community, even though he frankly stated the Book of Mormon to be fiction. He even liked Mormon theology/philosophy and wrote books about it. In that sense, there are many people who appreciate their local, regional, or ethnic culture. Jews, for example, might not attend synagogue or eat kosher, but they are still considered Jews -- even by their fellow Jews. Chabad even tries to reactivate them. Mormon culture may not yet be as rich and as interesting as Jewish culture, but we are getting there. When we find a neighbor who is a member but does not attend Church, we need to treat him (and his family) with respect and kindness. We need to refer to him as "brother," and not hold him in contempt. We need to invite him to ward and stake socials. Inclusion is the proper approach, not exclusion. Jesus himself was frequently condemned by the hoity-toity orthodox establishment for hanging out with drunks and tax collectors. He thought that the physician should spend time healing the sick, just as we are told to visit the down and out (including those in jail). Are we too hoity-toity to spend time with the rifraff? What is "pure religion and undefiled"?
Yirgacheffe Posted July 26, 2014 Posted July 26, 2014 Maybe they're talking about all that plastic surgery Utah women are supposedly getting. My son's getting married this Saturday, I'm seriously sick at what my in laws are going to think about my extended family and some of my grown kids. Either that they don't dress modestly or have several tattoos. It's not a good thing, speaking about sqeaky clean LDS anyway. My MIL will probably have to put on her very best poker face imagineable because I've seen her criticize women who in her mind, dress immodest. Dresses these days are all pretty much immodest compared to LDS standards. I'm just sick about it. Especially since my daughter is into tattoo artistry now, and has given herself several on her legs. Even I have to withhold judgement. Wish me luck with the inactive vs the very active family member dilemma!I'm sorry you have to go through this, it's very sad if people can't put stuff like this aside for family. Here's to hoping everyone keeps the joy of the occasion in the forefront of their minds and hearts and lovingly overlooks what ever short comings they may see. On another note, I keep hearing this "you just can't find modest dresses these days" and I think that's a load. I haven't ever had a problem finding appropriate clothing for my daughters, clothing that would meet and in some cases exceed LDS standards. Take for instance my oldest she's 17, as far as she's concerned any neckline that hits slightly below her collar bone is uncomfortably low. But these shirts are generally not long enough even though she is wearing loose jeans so she wears a looong spaghetti strap shirt underneath the tee shirts, this undershirt has to hit mid thigh in order to make her happy. Shorts and skirts have to at the minimum hit the top of her knees and be loose enough to not ride up when she sits down and she (actually all of my girls) wears shorts under any dress or skirt just in case the skirt should malfunction ala Kate Middleton. I have never had a problem finding a dress that meets her criteria when we have to attend a wedding, funeral, graduation, dance and what I found really weird, confirmation. I'm still startled that my kids were all invited to their friends confirmations and since these all seem to happen in eighth grade I had to buy my girls two dresses, one for graduation and one to go to church. Sleeves, you can even find dresses with sleeves. Just last March a combination of my insistence on sleeves for any church and my headstrong 14 year old's love of a sleeveless dress she wanted to wear to a confirmation led to an embarrassing situation at the confirmation of her friend. But she was there in an easy to find modest sleeved dress. In my mind if anyone says modest clothing isn't out there they just aren't looking very hard, I find it all the time. More criteria from my kids, all of them, no writing on shirts, the girls don't want anyone looking at their chests to read the message, same with pictures an all over pattern is fine, anything that rests on their boobs, out of the question. Pants are the same way, no words, ever and certainly not across the butt. Honestly I have no idea how they formed these opinions on clothing because I have never ever discussed "modesty" with them but I have never had a problem meeting their criteria.
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