Cultural Mormon?

[3DOP]

There are a lot of reasons elderly people dress in Tee shirt type tops and pants.  My MIL hasn't worn anything that buttons or has a zipper in the back since my FIL died 12 years ago, she simply can't manage those and he used to do them up for her.  She also has not worn a dress to events in years because panty hose was just to hard for her to wrestle into and to go without is even more scandalous than pants not to mention that her "big ugly clodhppers" that she wears for surer footing would be  completely visible.  She really hates those shoes.  She has always worried that people would look at her as you did that widow, we just tell here everyone is just glad she could get there. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about your charity being stirred by the fact that she lacked instruction rather than the loss of her husband of presumably many years.

 

Thanks Yirgacheffe.

 

There are a lot of reasons elderly people dress in Tee shirt type tops and pants.  My MIL hasn't worn anything that buttons or has a zipper in the back since my FIL died 12 years ago, she simply can't manage those and he used to do them up for her.  She also has not worn a dress to events in years because panty hose was just to hard for her to wrestle into and to go without is even more scandalous than pants not to mention that her "big ugly clodhppers" that she wears for surer footing would be  completely visible.  She really hates those shoes.  She has always worried that people would look at her as you did that widow, we just tell here everyone is just glad she could get there. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about your charity being stirred by the fact that she lacked instruction rather than the loss of her husband of presumably many years.

 

Ouch. Yeah. My breach of charity towards the widow (by detraction) with my wife, was even worse than I had considered. I didn't have much sympathy for her or the people she was with. I have formed the intention for the future to emphasize only good things if her name should ever come up again. My wife already knows I am sorry that I told her how she was dressed. I doubt if the subject of the funeral comes up with anyone else. But if perhaps a parishioner should inquire how the funeral went, I will endeavor to keep to myself how her family was dressed and behaving. I resolve to keep quiet about what I observed unless some unforeseen cause should arise. I have done what I can to restore the widow's reputation to my wife, but the biggest problem with sins of the tongue, especially detraction, is that by repeating truths that harm another's reputation without sufficient cause, the damage cannot be undone. If I had told untruths, it would be a simple matter to admit a lie. As it is, I hope to make a good confession soon, and do the penance assigned to make what reparations I can.        

Edited July 26, 2014 by 3DOP

[Yirgacheffe]

Thanks Yirgacheffe.

 

 

Ouch. Yeah. My breach of charity towards the widow (by detraction) with my wife, was even worse than I had considered. I didn't have much sympathy for her or the people she was with. I have formed the intention for the future to emphasize only good things if her name should ever come up again. My wife already knows I am sorry that I told her how she was dressed. I doubt if the subject of the funeral comes up with anyone else. But if perhaps a parishioner should inquire how the funeral went, I will endeavor to keep to myself how her family was dressed and behaving. I resolve to keep quiet about what I observed unless some unforeseen cause should arise. I have done what I can to restore the widow's reputation to my wife, but the biggest problem with sins of the tongue, especially detraction, is that by repeating truths that harm another's reputation without sufficient cause, the damage cannot be undone. If I had told untruths, it would be a simple matter to admit a lie. As it is, I hope to make a good confession soon, and do the penance assigned to make what reparations I can.        

Probably why our mothers told us "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

[3DOP]

Probably why our mothers told us "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"

 

Yup. A pretty good rule.

 

I just got back. Father was pretty stern with me. He talked about defamation laws, where in the civil authority recognizes that everyone has a right to their good name. How much more then, according to God's Kingdom and His justice, are we in trouble if we defame one of his children. Besides some prescribed prayers as penance, he explained the need to make reparation and told me to do it. Fortunately, it isn't something I broadcasted. I only need to fix things with my wife and possibly my son. I don't know, but he may have overheard. I will begin by making a point to praise the widow by reminding my wife of a kind intention that the widow told us she had when we visited her husband in the hospital.

[The Barter]

They want the glory of being seens as a Mormon, but not the resposibilities of being mormon. A saint that sins and nothing more are they.

[Tacenda]

3DOP and Yirgacheffe, false alarm, everyone got along and had fun, and no looks of judgement anywhere. One funny thing happened, my sister in law thought there was food on my daughter's upper lip and went to remove it until she found it wouldn't come off and it was my daughter's piercing, but they had a good laugh!!

Edited July 27, 2014 by Tacenda

[katherine the great]

They want the glory of being seens as a Mormon, but not the resposibilities of being mormon. A saint that sins and nothing more are they.

"Glory"? Seriously? What glory? Perhaps they are not ashamed but proud of their heritage in spite of rejecting its ideology. At any rate, I doubt every single person who uses that phrase has the exact same motivation. There are probably multiple situations in which that could occur.

[katherine the great]

3DOP and Yirgacheffe, false alarm, everyone got along and had fun, and no looks of judgement anywhere. One funny thing happened, my sister in law thought there was food on my daughter's upper lip and went to remove it until she found it wouldn't come off and it was my daughter's piercing, but they had a good laugh!!

Glad it worked out well. I think being exposed to good people from all walks of life is a healthy learning experience for all of us. It helps us be less judgmental.

[Rain]

On another note, I keep hearing this "you just can't find modest dresses these days" and I think that's a load. I haven't ever had a problem finding appropriate clothing for my daughters, clothing that would meet and in some cases exceed LDS standards. Take for instance my oldest she's 17, as far as she's concerned any neckline that hits slightly below her collar bone is uncomfortably low. But these shirts are generally not long enough even though she is wearing loose jeans so she wears a looong spaghetti strap shirt underneath the tee shirts, this undershirt has to hit mid thigh in order to make her happy. Shorts and skirts have to at the minimum hit the top of her knees and be loose enough to not ride up when she sits down and she (actually all of my girls) wears shorts under any dress or skirt just in case the skirt should malfunction ala Kate Middleton. I have never had a problem finding a dress that meets her criteria when we have to attend a wedding, funeral, graduation, dance and what I found really weird, confirmation. I'm still startled that my kids were all invited to their friends confirmations and since these all seem to happen in eighth grade I had to buy my girls two dresses, one for graduation and one to go to church. Sleeves, you can even find dresses with sleeves. Just last March a combination of my insistence on sleeves for any church and my headstrong 14 year old's love of a sleeveless dress she wanted to wear to a confirmation led to an embarrassing situation at the confirmation of her friend. But she was there in an easy to find modest sleeved dress. In my mind if anyone says modest clothing isn't out there they just aren't looking very hard, I find it all the time. More criteria from my kids, all of them, no writing on shirts, the girls don't want anyone looking at their chests to read the message, same with pictures an all over pattern is fine, anything that rests on their boobs, out of the question. Pants are the same way, no words, ever and certainly not across the butt. Honestly I have no idea how they formed these opinions on clothing because I have never ever discussed "modesty" with them but I have never had a problem meeting their criteria.

It's really going to depend on where you live, what time of year it is and the person's body type. I've searched long and hard sometimes and found few clothes, if any, that will work. Other times it just took a slight bit of work.

[MiserereNobis]

I don't get why someone would want to be a cultural mormon. The culture is easily the worst part. Frankly, its downright awful.

 

Here's a song by Hot Buttered Rum (string band) called "Busted in Utah" (at NedFest in Nederland, CO with a lot of hippies dancing around)

 

 

"...So bluegrass bands with big plans and a psychedelic GMC

Should know that Utah is the longest way from point A to point B

There's a whole lot of jello and a lot of trampolines

Ooooo..."

 

I giggle at the reference to jello and trampolines

[Tacenda]

It's really going to depend on where you live, what time of year it is and the person's body type. I've searched long and hard sometimes and found few clothes, if any, that will work. Other times it just took a slight bit of work.

You about have to wear white t-shirts with everything nowadays. I guess we could be like the guys who wear crew style garments and just let them show, I think with the newer women's garment tops you could almost get away with it and not have to wear 3 layers!

[seriously honestly]

What glory are you talking about, Barter?  People are well aware that I don't believe in Mormonism, but I still like many things about the religion and the people.

[Stone holm]

Assume it is the equivalent of "lukewarm" regarding belief and doctrine.  You hear something similar amongst many Jews, especially Reformed Jews, which means they keep some of the customs and traditions as being part of the community.  Both may identify themselves as either Mormon or Jewish.  I suspect both groups are likely to be actually either agnostic or atheist when it comes to actual belief.  We have a lot of people out here who go to a Community Church as just something you do as part of the local community -- but their ties are to the community, not necessarily to Christianity or Christ.  I suspect most are actually humanists if you got down to classifying them.  "Cultural Mormon" may also be a mechanism used by many, rather ironically, to distance themselves from the political aura because they think that right wing political positions are doctrinal -- which is odd because they are cultural.

[Ahab]

What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members? Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use?

I think of members who spend a lot of their time in our cultural halls, like for basketball or volleyball or dances or other quorum/ward/stake activities that are usually held in there, and possibly participate or attend other cultural events like Pioneer Day parades and camps and concerts and lectures, and stuff like that.

You know, who really get involved in Church culture.

I don't usually attend or participate in things like that, except for the 3 hour block meetings.

[Shizfan]

What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)? 

Sounds like a lack of testimony to me.

Less faithful members?

Yes

[Daniel2]

I consider myself a cultural Mormon and likely always will, even though I resigned from the LDS church and believe none of its doctrine and espouse none of its dogma.

I was raised in the culture, and have LDS heritage and pioneer ancestry. My youth wad formed by young mens and my manhood shaped by my mission. I am proud of my ancestors' immense struggles, establishing Zion and cultivating the desert to blossom as a rose, temple construction in the face of tremendous pressures, and many other accomplishments and cognizant of their foibles, imperfections, and mistakes.

I get references to "Looking out the window, and what did I see...?", mission lingo, returning and reporting and other temple references, the bizarre significance and humor of green jello salad with shredded carrots and funeral potatoes, and can laugh along with The Mormon Rap and references to Donny's purple socks... ("May tomorrow be the perfect day, may there be love and laughter along the way....")

[Robert F. Smith]

I consider myself a cultural Mormon and likely always will, even though I resigned from the LDS church and believe none of its doctrine and espouse none of its dogma.

I was raised in the culture, and have LDS heritage and pioneer ancestry. My youth wad formed by young mens and my manhood shaped by my mission. I am proud of my ancestors' immense struggles, establishing Zion and cultivating the desert to blossom as a rose, temple construction in the face of tremendous pressures, and many other accomplishments and cognizant of their foibles, imperfections, and mistakes.

I get references to "Looking out the window, and what did I see...?", mission lingo, returning and reporting and other temple references, the bizarre significance and humor of green jello salad with shredded carrots and funeral potatoes, and can laugh along with The Mormon Rap and references to Donny's purple socks... ("May tomorrow be the perfect day, may there be love and laughter along the way....")

Sounds to me like you have a touch of ethnos, Brother.  You are far from alone.

[Robert F. Smith]

Assume it is the equivalent of "lukewarm" regarding belief and doctrine.  You hear something similar amongst many Jews, especially Reformed Jews, which means they keep some of the customs and traditions as being part of the community.  Both may identify themselves as either Mormon or Jewish.  I suspect both groups are likely to be actually either agnostic or atheist when it comes to actual belief.  We have a lot of people out here who go to a Community Church as just something you do as part of the local community -- but their ties are to the community, not necessarily to Christianity or Christ.  I suspect most are actually humanists if you got down to classifying them.  "Cultural Mormon" may also be a mechanism used by many, rather ironically, to distance themselves from the political aura because they think that right wing political positions are doctrinal -- which is odd because they are cultural.

Correct.  And it may be helpful to point out that Mormonism is a very humanistic religion.  See M. F. Bukowski's systematic presentation at http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/55463-secularist-dogma-final-refuge-of-the-unfeeling/ , posts ##11-12, 18.

[Yirgacheffe]

3DOP and Yirgacheffe, false alarm, everyone got along and had fun, and no looks of judgement anywhere. One funny thing happened, my sister in law thought there was food on my daughter's upper lip and went to remove it until she found it wouldn't come off and it was my daughter's piercing, but they had a good laugh!!

Just back from a short vacation, I'm glad to hear a good time was had by all.  Really nothing better then when you have a large loving family gathering.

[readstoomuch]

My oldest son just told is they don't want to bless their baby in Church. Besides breaking our hearts, it does seem to identify them as cultural Mormons.

[Tacenda]

Blessing their baby at home would acceptable, correct? Hey maybe the mom can hold her baby that way. I think it sounds sweet as all get out.

[readstoomuch]

Tacenda,

That is what we suggested. At home while both grandparents were there. If they want to bless their baby they told us that they would initiate it. It is tough to initiate it when they don`t go to Church and they avoid their home teachers and visiting teachers. It is about the only "push" we have done as far as the Church in 9 months and they looked quite angry or at least my son did. Thanks again.

[smac97]

What do you think of when you hear someone introduce themselves as a cultural Mormon (or what would you think)?  Do you assume they're nonmembers? Less faithful members?  Is it just a confusing term that shouldn't be use?

To me, it signifies inactivity in the Church, but that some ties to the Church remain, and that the person is not hostile to the Church. That is the person claiming to be a "cultural" Mormon has family and friend relationships, or is living in a heavily LDS area, or retains some vestigial aspects of Mormon "culture" in their life, and so on.

So that's it. "Cultural Mormon" = "I am not observant, but I still have some Mormonness in me, and I am not hostile to the Church."

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 31, 2014 by smac97

[Stone holm]

Blessing their baby at home would acceptable, correct? Hey maybe the mom can hold her baby that way. I think it sounds sweet as all get out.

One of the purposes is to give the child a name for which they will be known on the records of the Church.

[smac97]

My oldest son just told is they don't want to bless their baby in Church. Besides breaking our hearts, it does seem to identify them as cultural Mormons.

the blessing of babies falls within the jurisdiction of the bishop. So if he wants to bless the baby at home, you will need the consent and permission of the bishop.

[smac97]

My oldest son just told is they don't want to bless their baby in Church. Besides breaking our hearts, it does seem to identify them as cultural Mormons.

the blessing of babies falls within the jurisdiction of the bishop. So if he wants to bless the baby at home, you will need the consent and permission of the bishop.