Was Lucifer Really The Bad Guy In The War In Heaven?

[CV75]

Good point. And let's face it. if there's anybody who takes malevolence to an extreme, it would be he.

 

At the least a stealing of his identity to begin with...anger driving him to the extreme after rejection...but either the council took place over a lot longer time period than we generally imagine or Lucifer was in his heart much closer to the extreme than I would have once imagined someone living with God could be. By rejecting God, rejecting any influence, that part of him that would have been suppressed was unleashed.

I know I bordered on the creepy with that post, but sometimes it helps me to remain circumspect in treating the things we have received (D&C 84:54, 55).

 

It is interesting to me that the warning in D&C 121:34-46 has to do with wanting honor (v. 35) and the right to power (v. 36) but not glory (in other words, righteousness, as in verses. 36 and 46; also D&C 109:76). Such an attitude arises from vanity and unbelief, precursors to pride.

 

The antithesis of righteousness is hypocrisy, pride, ambition and control (121:37). Righteousness on the other hand is shown by persuasion, long-suffering, gentleness and meekness, love unfeigned, kindness, and pure knowledge, receptiveness to and companionship of the Holy Ghost, faithfulness stronger than death, charity and virtue. (vs. 41-45).

[Nofear]

Just a reminder... when trying to "understand" the Adversary before the Council of Heaven, consider also your position on whether or not a Satan is necessary to the Plan of Happiness enacted upon the countless worlds of our Father in Heaven. For example:

 

1. A Satan is absolutely necessary, no temptation of Eve = no Fall, therefore it was necessary for God to "find" somebody who was foolish enough to reject the Plan that had so successfully occurred on countless worlds.

2. A Satan is not necessary, the events leading up to the Fall usually followed a different path, and as such our Lucifer just happened to be a real jerk -- smart, persuasive, but a real jerk nonetheless.

 

My suspicion is some may have adopted self-inconsistent positions, but how one views the Fall can and should definitely impact the response to the OP.

[Rob Osborn]

1. Satan's yes, Lucifer's maybe.

2. Yes - don't you see why Lucifer's plan would have achieved one and prevented the other?

 

I don't want to seem like I'm coming down on the side of the evil one here, but do you really think 1/3 part of the hosts of heaven would have followed Lucifer if his plan would have resulted in perdition?

I'll say it again, Lucifer offered up a plan that if accepted would have forced salvation on every soul, but none would have become like God.  That, along with the glory hogging, is why it was rejected.  But there would also have been no perdition.

Lucifer never had a plan of forced salvation. He was a liar at the council. 1/3 followed after him because wickedness seemed appealing.

[Storm Rider]

Lucifer never had a plan of forced salvation. He was a liar at the council. 1/3 followed after him because wickedness seemed appealing.

 

I am not convinced that they were wicked, but more that they were deceived.  Just a thought.  Just as we each can be deceived in this life so was it possible to be deceived in the preexistence.  In being deceived they then became willing to actually fight against God.  This is where your statement actually rules the day; a third of the host of heaven chose to follow after one of the very elect rather than to follow God the Father and submit to his will.  They were completely unwilling to repent; in their eyes they knew what was right and they were not going to back down.  I am positive they were warned repeatedly of the condemnation they would be under, but still chose to stay to their path being convinced they were right and the leadership, I mean the Godhead, was wrong.  

Edited July 15, 2014 by Storm Rider

[Rob Osborn]

Hi there,

The problem is we've been given very little information that would enable us to definitively establish what Lucifer's plan was really all about. It could be that one of the reasons why God has revealed so little about his plan is tied to the following warning of Alma to his son Helamen in the Book of Mormon (read the following very carefully because one day it could be what you're about to read might prove to be an important key in helping to bring understanding to what the war in heaven was all about):

27 And now, my son, I command you that ye retain all their oaths, and their covenants, and their agreements in their secret abominations; yea, and all their signs and their wonders ye shall keep from this people, that they know them not, lest peradventure they should fall into darkness also and be destroyed.

28 For behold, there is a curse upon all this land, that destruction shall come upon all those workers of darkness, according to the power of God, when they are fully ripe; therefore I desire that this people might not be destroyed.

29 Therefore ye shall keep these secret plans of their oaths and their covenants from this people, and only their wickedness and their murders and their abominations shall ye make known unto them; and ye shall teach them to abhor such wickedness and abominations and murders; and ye shall also teach them that these people were destroyed on account of their wickedness and abominations and their murders.

30 For behold, they murdered all the prophets of the Lord who came among them to declare unto them concerning their iniquities; and the blood of those whom they murdered did cry unto the Lord their God for vengeance upon those who were their murderers; and thus the judgments of God did come upon these workers of darkness and secret combinations. (Alma 37)

 

Yes, you guessed it. Could it be that the war in heaven was the first secret combination? We know Lucifer and his followers wanted to usurp the throne of power for themselves; and in their quest to dethrone God they would have stopped at nothing, including the destruction of the Father and the Son in order to achieve their goal. The following quote reveals the depth of hatred that fills the souls of those who are consumed with such abject, murder-inducing darkness:

35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. (D&C 76)

 

There's the murderous intent of those who would dethrone God.

 

Based on the few elements of Lucifer's plan that are revealed, some have concluded he would have compelled us to be righteous. But considering the fact that he's such a malevolent character, one wonders why keeping the commandments would be even slightly important to him.

 

Personally, I believe one of the possible keys to understanding his plan is to take a good look at the adversary's influence in the world today. There seem to be many leaders who are diligently trying create an earthly paradise where grievous sin is of little or no consequence; a world where, regardless of personal morals, all are to be blessed equally.

Not sure what to make of dreams and what not but I have had dreams about the pre-mortal life and what I saw and was part of was just like out of a Star Wars movie with secret combinations- secret plans of Lucifer and his followers to overthrow the kingdom. God had his forces also and sent spies amongst Lucifers forces to find out his ways. Lucifer's plans were to destroy the kingdom of God just like the dark Lords in Star Wars and rule by force and dominion in wickedness in the eternities. There were those who chose to follow after Lucifer because the lust for power was spreading like a disease in the kingdom and many wanted that and were allured to Lucifers side because of that promise for power and dominion. There were some who after choosing Lucifer changed and came back to fight with Christ. This war in heaven began long before the council and had been building up for a long time. God knew all along that Lucifer was plotting against him. Lucifer thought he could keep it secret but couldnt. Finally at the council Lucifer and his followers were brought out into full light by Christ and his followers and war ensued and Satan and his forces were physically removed from the kingdom of heaven and sent far away. Needless to say, this type of war and conflict that battles on to this day between good and evil was not a normal incident in heaven- not typically a part of how Gods plans of peopling planets happen. Our situation is unique in the history of the Gods and there is a lot at stake. The plans devised by God with our situation is also unique in the history of the Gods because of the added evil influence and what ultimately is at stake. Our Savior performing this atonement will go down in the annals of history of the Gods of one of the most courageous acts and its effects will echo through eternity forever!

[stemelbow]

Lucifer was a fine enough faithful spirit.  He thought he figured out a problem with the eternal way, but his proposal was forcefully rejected.  being faithful and knowing the only plan possible he embraced the eternal role of opposition because as it turned out he had no other choice in his mind.  What else was he to do? If he didn't, then the eternal plan would be frustrated.  So he took one for the team, as they say.  In so doing he convinced billions of others to give up their hopes and dreams so their delightful siblings could be benefitted eternally.   He's tempting you in some weird psychological way because he wants more for you.  Without the temptations you'd be weak--you'd be mundane and boring without growth.  You'd be telestial or perhaps if lucky Terrestrial, but no way in hell could you ever be Celestial without him.  That's the great secret.  Those that get caught up in his chains and get dragged down deserve it in his mind.  They aren't worth what the elect are worth, so to him, they too are necessary sacrifices for us.  His love is only for those become exalted.  Everyone else he doesn't care for.  At least God cares for all those who don't get stuck in OD--but then again those billions already have satan's love.  Well they think they do, but he's true love is only for those who become exalted. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by stemelbow

[stemelbow]

Not sure what to make of dreams and what not but I have had dreams about the pre-mortal life and what I saw and was part of was just like out of a Star Wars movie with secret combinations- secret plans of Lucifer and his followers to overthrow the kingdom. God had his forces also and sent spies amongst Lucifers forces to find out his ways. Lucifer's plans were to destroy the kingdom of God just like the dark Lords in Star Wars and rule by force and dominion in wickedness in the eternities. There were those who chose to follow after Lucifer because the lust for power was spreading like a disease in the kingdom and many wanted that and were allured to Lucifers side because of that promise for power and dominion. There were some who after choosing Lucifer changed and came back to fight with Christ. This war in heaven began long before the council and had been building up for a long time. God knew all along that Lucifer was plotting against him. Lucifer thought he could keep it secret but couldnt. Finally at the council Lucifer and his followers were brought out into full light by Christ and his followers and war ensued and Satan and his forces were physically removed from the kingdom of heaven and sent far away. Needless to say, this type of war and conflict that battles on to this day between good and evil was not a normal incident in heaven- not typically a part of how Gods plans of peopling planets happen. Our situation is unique in the history of the Gods and there is a lot at stake. The plans devised by God with our situation is also unique in the history of the Gods because of the added evil influence and what ultimately is at stake. Our Savior performing this atonement will go down in the annals of history of the Gods of one of the most courageous acts and its effects will echo through eternity forever!

 

So were eternal beings getting killed in this great war?  How was Lucifer fighting?  Were there casualties?

[JLHPROF]

Lucifer never had a plan of forced salvation. He was a liar at the council. 1/3 followed after him because wickedness seemed appealing.

 

Sorry, I don't see that in scripture anywhere.  Quite the opposite in fact.

Edited July 15, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Bikeemikey]

I just had the most random thought:

As I understand our narrative, HF called a council in heaven and laid out the plan of salvation with Christ as redeemer. Lucifer objected, pointing out (correctly) that the plan would result in the loss of some souls and proposed instead that he would be the redeemer and deliver ALL souls back to heaven. We're told that Lucifer's main goal here was to increase his own glory while Christ was simply looking to do HF's will.

But, in the end, Christ received far more glory than Lucifer could have ever obtained. About 2 billion people call themselves "Christians" (not Elohimians). Amongst the vast majority of these people, Christ is CO-EQUAL with HF. And Christ is no slouch in Mormonism either. In fact, our Church is named after Christ (not Elohim). We live our lives according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't imagine that Lucifer ever imagined that he would have received even a fraction of this glory under his Plan B.

That being said, I'm trying to figure out where Lucifer went wrong. HF called a COUNCIL of His children. In doing so, I presume that HF meant to get their COUNSEL. Lucifer presented an alternative plan that had some merit (freedom vs. security is an argument we often have in modern society). Sure, he wanted his own glory out of the deal, but the original plan called for glory for Christ so SOMEONE was going to get glory out of the deal and Lucifer's plan promised 100% success. In short, Lucifer was promising more souls, less sharing of glory.

Up until this point, I don't see where anyone is in the wrong. But then all heaven breaks out, and Lucifer and his supporters "lose their estate" and are cast out of heaven. I did some checking on the War in Heaven but I'm not sure that it's clear who started it. Was it the case that HF rejected Lucifer's plan and then Lucifer and his followers went into open rebellion (which seems both really dumb ... and maybe even impossible ... How do you start a "fight" with God?) Or did the simple act of proposing (and backing) Plan B put them into open rebellion for rejecting God's original plan?

Given recent events in the Church, this question isn't just purely academic for me.

 

Who knows... all seems a little strange to me.

 

That said I am inclined to think that the issue with "Satans" plan was that is was actually impossible for God to make it happen. That is, God is God in virtue of his obedience to the laws of the universe and Satans plan was attempting to produce an outcome that would have required God to violate his obedience to those laws.

 

This only works if you are in the mormon camp that thinks God "perfectly" follows eternal law and is therefore God, not the camp that thinks God created eternal law and is therefore God.

 

Satan was attempting to make gravity fall up, not down, something he could probably have done but not without catastrphic consequence.

 

I find the whole glory thing to be very strange.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[Bikeemikey]

Lucifer never had a plan of forced salvation. He was a liar at the council. 1/3 followed after him because wickedness seemed appealing.

 

I think you may have a "wrest" the scriptures a bit to find cannonical support for that idea. It may be true, though it is not in the standards works.

[CV75]

Just a reminder... when trying to "understand" the Adversary before the Council of Heaven, consider also your position on whether or not a Satan is necessary to the Plan of Happiness enacted upon the countless worlds of our Father in Heaven. For example:

 

1. A Satan is absolutely necessary, no temptation of Eve = no Fall, therefore it was necessary for God to "find" somebody who was foolish enough to reject the Plan that had so successfully occurred on countless worlds.

2. A Satan is not necessary, the events leading up to the Fall usually followed a different path, and as such our Lucifer just happened to be a real jerk -- smart, persuasive, but a real jerk nonetheless.

 

My suspicion is some may have adopted self-inconsistent positions, but how one views the Fall can and should definitely impact the response to the OP.

Just my current thinking on the matter:

 

According to 2 Nephi 2:15-16, it seems the Fall was engineered around opposing things (“fruit”) to be acted upon in order to bring about God’s eternal purposes in the end of man.

 

“And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter. Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.”

 

One fruit was sweet, the other bitter. I understand this can be construed to mean that one was “good” and the other “evil” but if they were literal fruits, not so. But the enticement had to come from something other than their respective properties, since we all know that sweet is enticing and bitterness is not. The enticement had to come from Adam and Eve’s subjective interpretation of the fruit’s appearance and to the instructions they received from the Lord.

 

It seems to me that the needful things for God’s eternal purposes were 1)  opposing and enticing elements so that man should act for himself, and 2) instructions on how to proceed and the consequences (Genesis 2:16-17). So I think there could have been various ways in which that Adam and Eve found the forbidden, bitter fruit sufficiently enticing for the Fall to come about.

 

In our case (Moses 1:35) or “generation”, the devil came into the picture sometime after Abraham 3:26, and the specific events that followed represent our particular world’s history (2 Nephi 2: 17-18), but not necessarily in the exact same way things have, do, and will go on in all the other worlds. I’m not sure there had to be a similar rebellion for every “generation.”

 

The original plan was “we will prove them herewith,” without any mention of needing a devil (Abraham 3:24-26). The law of opposition can operate quite well without a devil; 2 Nephi 2:11-13 speaks only of righteousness, wickedness, holiness, misery, good, bad, life, death, corruption, incorruption, happiness, misery, sense, insensibility; the wisdom, eternal purposes, power, mercy, and justice of God;   law, sin, happiness, punishment; and the creation of things to act and to be acted upon.

 

“For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so …there is no God.” This says nothing about there having to be a devil, though we certainly have one associated with our eternal history.

Edited July 15, 2014 by CV75

[Bikeemikey]

Lucifer was a fine enough faithful spirit.  He thought he figured out a problem with the eternal way, but his proposal was forcefully rejected.  being faithful and knowing the only plan possible he embraced the eternal role of opposition because as it turned out he had no other choice in his mind.  What else was he to do? If he didn't, then the eternal plan would be frustrated.  So he took one for the team, as they say.  In so doing he convinced billions of others to give up their hopes and dreams so their delightful siblings could be benefitted eternally.   He's tempting you in some weird psychological way because he wants more for you.  Without the temptations you'd be weak--you'd be mundane and boring without growth.  You'd be telestial or perhaps if lucky Terrestrial, but no way in hell could you ever be Celestial without him.  That's the great secret.  Those that get caught up in his chains and get dragged down deserve it in his mind.  They aren't worth what the elect are worth, so to him, they too are necessary sacrifices for us.  His love is only for those become exalted.  Everyone else he doesn't care for.  At least God cares for all those who don't get stuck in OD--but then again those billions already have satan's love.  Well they think they do, but he's true love is only for those who become exalted. 

 

I don't think the eternal spiritual reality of choice, agency and temptation came about because of Satan. They have always been there. Satan is just the celebrity face of that cosmic reality.

 

Did an earlier Satan tempt Satan?

 

If Satan stops existing do I stop sinning (or stop being tempted to sin)?

 

As the previous post notes: the way we think about Satan and the fall impacts our response to the opening post.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[CV75]

I find the whole glory thing to be very strange.

A few posts ago I put up a few scriptures that show that Satan was not seeking glory, but only honor and power. This is why those who support him (whether knowingly, with misunderstanding or misinformation, or ignorantly--and we cannot be saved in ignorance) in his purposes seek only honor and power, but not glory, of God.

[Bikeemikey]

A few posts ago I put up a few scriptures that show that Satan was not seeking glory, but only honor and power. This is why those who support him (whether knowingly, with misunderstanding or misinformation, or ignorantly--and we cannot be saved in ignorance) in his purposes seek only honor and power, but not glory, of God.

 

So Satan sought the honor and power of God, but not the Glory of God?

 

Could be so... Does knowing Satan's motivation help me...

 

While we are at it could someone let me know is Meyers-Briggs personality type? Im going with ENTJ ...

Edited July 15, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[stemelbow]

I don't think the eternal spiritual reality of choice, agency and temptation came about because of Satan. They have always been there. Satan is just the celebrity face of that cosmic reality.

That's my point.

 

Did an earlier Satan tempt Satan?

Nah...he did it to sacrifice his own hopes for others.

 

If Satan stops existing do I stop sinning (or stop being tempted to sin)?

Hecks to the nos. That's why there are billions of them, so you don't get to entertain that idea.

 

As the previous post notes: the way we think about Satan and the fall impacts our response to the opening post.

The way we think impacts our responses? nah. That's absurd. (-;

[CV75]

So Satan sought the honor and power of God, but not the Glory of God?

 

Could be so... Does knowing Satan's motivation help me...

 

While we are at it could someone let me know is Meyers-Briggs personality type? Im going with ENTJ ...

What he sought is not the same thing as his motivation, but anyone that has a motive to do evil will have an inkling as to what that motivation was. My posts aren't addressing his motivations.

 

Motivation is an important thing to understand, as it has to do with faith, "real intent" and desire and willingness as discussed in Alma 32.

 

If you have questions about what I actually said about honor and power in my other posts, I'd be happy to oblige (but I don't want to simply repeat them for you).

[Rob Osborn]

Sorry, I don't see that in scripture anywhere.  Quite the opposite in fact.

Where does it say that Lucifers true plans were to enforce some kind of obedience plan to save everyone? Nowhere as far as i can tell. We are told from scripture that Lucifer wanted to lead us captive to his will and sought that which was wicked while in heaven.

[JLHPROF]

Where does it say that Lucifers true plans were to enforce some kind of obedience plan to save everyone? Nowhere as far as i can tell. We are told from scripture that Lucifer wanted to lead us captive to his will and sought that which was wicked while in heaven.

 

You seem to believe that Lucifer was pursuing evil from the time of his very spirit birth.  Tradition, prophetic interpretation (and what little scripture we have) indicates that he was the "light bearer", 2nd in line to Christ.  When scriptures say he was a liar from the beginning that could just as easily refer to the beginning of this earth when he was chose to rebel and was cast out as it could mean from his spirit birth.  We have no scriptural reason to assume that Lucifer was created evil, only that he became such in the beginning of time.

 

So I am quite comfortable scripturally in believing his plan was offered in admittedly self-aggrandising sincerity (at first) as described in scripture.  He wanted the glory of redeeming everyone.  How else to get that glory?  You seem to feel that he was lying about wanting to redeem everyone from mortality.  I ask then, how was his goal of ruling over them and having God's glory to be achieved?  Ruling and reigning in heaven and having God's glory REQUIRE something to achieve that - just as Christ achieved it.

Now as Teddyaware pointed out to me, Lucifer had no intention of atoning for our sins, but he must have had some plan by which he could gain God's power and glory and come rule over us.  That was his goal and why he was cast out.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/war-in-heaven

[Nofear]

Lucifer was a fine enough faithful spirit.  He thought he figured out a problem with the eternal way, but his proposal was forcefully rejected.  being faithful and knowing the only plan possible he embraced the eternal role of opposition because as it turned out he had no other choice in his mind.  What else was he to do? If he didn't, then the eternal plan would be frustrated.  So he took one for the team, as they say. 

 

Lucifer "took one for the team"... that's a pretty big self sacrifice: eternal damnation. Personally, I don't buy it. He was and is a rebel and false accuser and there is not one whit of self sacrifice about him.

 

 

@CV75, I think one of the scriptures most wrested by Latter-day Saints is "opposition in all things". A choice, option A, option B, etc. is the opposition, I do not think it necessitates the necessary presence of an intelligent, active opposition. I agree with that other worlds had other ways whereby the Fall occurred. Personally I think at some point Adam and Eve would have had the opposing options 1) not eat the forbidden fruit and 2) stay and enjoy the care free life of the Garden of Eden flipped. That swapping of God preferred options dependent upon the proper preparation and readiness of the primal mortal parents. Where once God said don't he would have asked them do. What wouldn't change would be their choice. Adam and Eve would not be forced.

Admittedly that's not the mainstream position. They preference I see most often in Latter-day Saints* is that Lucifer was a patsy and Eve was smart enough to fool Satan by doing what Satan asked -- because she reasoned that doing what God expressly commanded her not to do was not what the forever honest God really wanted her to do, and this even though her silly husband wasn't smart enough to see it.

 

* I've seen this preference at pretty much all levels -- even though Paul pointedly disagreed with the position.

[Bikeemikey]

What he sought is not the same thing as his motivation, but anyone that has a motive to do evil will have an inkling as to what that motivation was. My posts aren't addressing his motivations.

 

Motivation is an important thing to understand, as it has to do with faith, "real intent" and desire and willingness as discussed in Alma 32.

 

If you have questions about what I actually said about honor and power in my other posts, I'd be happy to oblige (but I don't want to simply repeat them for you).

 

I actually think your other posts were quite insightful. No need to to repeat them.

 

I just think attributing intention-motivation to Satan is kind of like trying to attribute intention-motivation to Christ or God the Father. These beings exist as supreme ideals in and of themselves.

 

God purpose is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man... Satans purpose is (theologically) the opposite.

 

These beings exist outside of the concept of motivators.

[Bikeemikey]

@CV75, I think one of the scriptures most wrested by Latter-day Saints is "opposition in all things". A choice, option A, option B, etc. is the opposition, I do not think it necessitates the necessary presence of an intelligent, active opposition. I agree with that other worlds had other ways whereby the Fall occurred. Personally I think at some point Adam and Eve would have had the opposing options 1) not eat the forbidden fruit and 2) stay and enjoy the care free life of the Garden of Eden flipped. That swapping of God preferred options dependent upon the proper preparation and readiness of the primal mortal parents. Where once God said don't he would have asked them do. What wouldn't change would be their choice. Adam and Eve would not be forced.

 

 

I think that you are right about this reading or misreading of scripture.

 

The other one that matches this is the "natural man is an enemy to God"... This is often read as physical or temporal man. However, the natural man, in my experience, is very much a spiritual facet of self. Pride is our natural man and that is a spiritual quality that was with us in the preexistence.

[Calm]

 

These beings exist outside of the concept of motivators.

I think that to suggest that would take them out of the family of humanity myself...or rather humanity out of their family.

[Rob Osborn]

You seem to believe that Lucifer was pursuing evil from the time of his very spirit birth.  Tradition, prophetic interpretation (and what little scripture we have) indicates that he was the "light bearer", 2nd in line to Christ.  When scriptures say he was a liar from the beginning that could just as easily refer to the beginning of this earth when he was chose to rebel and was cast out as it could mean from his spirit birth.  We have no scriptural reason to assume that Lucifer was created evil, only that he became such in the beginning of time.

 

So I am quite comfortable scripturally in believing his plan was offered in admittedly self-aggrandising sincerity (at first) as described in scripture.  He wanted the glory of redeeming everyone.  How else to get that glory?  You seem to feel that he was lying about wanting to redeem everyone from mortality.  I ask then, how was his goal of ruling over them and having God's glory to be achieved?  Ruling and reigning in heaven and having God's glory REQUIRE something to achieve that - just as Christ achieved it.

Now as Teddyaware pointed out to me, Lucifer had no intention of atoning for our sins, but he must have had some plan by which he could gain God's power and glory and come rule over us.  That was his goal and why he was cast out.

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/war-in-heaven

Satan started out perfect in his creation and was in a position of authority next to God in heaven. But then sin entered his heart with pride and envy. He then fell into that path of sin and wanting justification for it. He wished to usurp the kingdom by becoming the Son of God into mortality and gaining immortality from which he could reign forever in his wickedness. That is why he said "here I am send me" (meaning the only begotten into mortality). His plans though were not to save anyone but exalt himself with the glory of immortality in the heavens and reign forever with a wicked hand. His ultimate plan was to bring into subjection all the souls of Gods children under his wicked hand and rule over them unrighteously forever building up a kingdom of wickedness in eternity. Being denied a body was the first result of Gods intelligent plan so that he could not rule over the body in eternity having no power therein by immortality as a gift. Second in Gods plan was toprovide the Savior to ensure the agency that we are endowed with is not eternally destroyed by Satan's plans to rule over us. The third part of the plan is the destruction of the devil and his angels and this is in the process of happening now- the framework being laid for his destruction. This destruction will be by totally cutting him off from all light and truth where he and his angels will self disentigtrate and have no more power ever again in the eternities. Satan was not genuine in his plans in heaven. He wanted to continue living in pride and honor above others sinning at will and on top of that he wanted the glory of an immortal body in eternity to reign over his minions unjustly forever and ever. He wanted to become the ultimate evil slavemaster.

[Bikeemikey]

I think that to suggest that would take them out of the family of humanity myself...or rather humanity out of their family.

 

I think that you may find that with in the LDS theological frame work there may be more possibility to discuss the idea of God's motivators.

 

However, even then we do not frequently ask why does God do what he does. We take it for granted that God is "perfect love" and that God's primary objective is the immortality and eternal life of his children. But we do not spend much time at all trying to determine why; the why is implicit in the title "God".

 

There is no "God" that does not seek that same goal.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Bikeemikey

[Bikeemikey]

Satan started out perfect in his creation and was in a position of authority next to God in heaven. But then sin entered his heart with pride and envy. He then fell into that path of sin and wanting justification for it. He wished to usurp the kingdom by becoming the Son of God into mortality and gaining immortality from which he could reign forever in his wickedness. That is why he said "here I am send me" (meaning the only begotten into mortality). His plans though were not to save anyone but exalt himself with the glory of immortality in the heavens and reign forever with a wicked hand. His ultimate plan was to bring into subjection all the souls of Gods children under his wicked hand and rule over them unrighteously forever building up a kingdom of wickedness in eternity. Being denied a body was the first result of Gods intelligent plan so that he could not rule over the body in eternity having no power therein by immortality as a gift. Second in Gods plan was toprovide the Savior to ensure the agency that we are endowed with is not eternally destroyed by Satan's plans to rule over us. The third part of the plan is the destruction of the devil and his angels and this is in the process of happening now- the framework being laid for his destruction. This destruction will be by totally cutting him off from all light and truth where he and his angels will self disentigtrate and have no more power ever again in the eternities. Satan was not genuine in his plans in heaven. He wanted to continue living in pride and honor above others sinning at will and on top of that he wanted the glory of an immortal body in eternity to reign over his minions unjustly forever and ever. He wanted to become the ultimate evil slavemaster.

 

Man, you sure know a lot about Satan's intentions.

 

Your musings are your own and seem plausible... they are not however anything approaching fact.