Sandra Tanner Is A Member Of Mormonstories

[Senator]

If Sandra Tanner's apostate exit narrative is a "Mormon story" then it inevitably follows that the bar for qualifying as a "Mormon story" is vanishingly low.

 

And your admission of that fact is all the more satisfying for being given unwittingly.

 

It also means that just because Dehlin's project is called "Mormon stories," doesn't mean that it has any connection with the stories of believing Latter-day Saints.

 

Regards,

Pahoran

"IF" as you say.

 

That is your subjective determination, therefore I do not concede it as a fact.

 

So only currently believing Latter-day Saints have a legitimate Mormon story?

 

Don't buy that either.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Senator

[Pahoran]

"IF" as you say.

 

That is your subjective determination, therefore I do not concede it as a fact.

 

But Senator; weren't you the one who said this?

Was she a Mormon?

If she was, then we have a Mormon story, whether you like the story or not.

Are you backpedalling now?

So only currently believing Latter-day Saints have a legitimate Mormon story?

Don't buy that either.

The concept of "truth in advertising" suggests that there are less misleading descriptions for apostate exit narratives than "Mormon stories."

I guess that's something else you don't buy.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Senator]

But Senator; weren't you the one who said this?

Yes

 

Are you backpedalling now?

No

The concept of "truth in advertising" suggests that there are less misleading descriptions for apostate exit narratives than "Mormon stories."

Perhaps, but in my estimation can be classified as a Mormon story nonetheless.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Senator

[Teancum]

If Sandra Tanner's apostate exit narrative is a "Mormon story" then it inevitably follows that the bar for qualifying as a "Mormon story" is vanishingly low.

 

And your admission of that fact is all the more satisfying for being given unwittingly.

 

It also means that just because Dehlin's project is called "Mormon stories," doesn't mean that it has any connection with the stories of believing Latter-day Saints.

 

Regards,

Pahoran

Did Dehlin ever claim that the interviews he would do had to be with believing Latter Day Saints only to qualify for an interview? But what a silly line in the sand, of your own making we should note, for something to be called a Mormon story. There is much of interest commented to Mormonism that is not warm gooey faith promoting stories that still qualify as Mormon related stories. The Tanners had an impact on things Mormon for good or ill.

[Teancum]

Let's not forget that Shawn McCraney and even Ed Decker were on the show. I agree and am not too shocked she is on there.

As was Richard Bushman, Dan Peterson and Teryl Givens.

[Tacenda]

Let's not forget that Shawn McCraney and even Ed Decker were on the show. I agree and am not too shocked she is on there.

Ed Decker?  Whatchew talkin about Willis?  I've probably listened to every one of them, atleast I thought I did. 

[Pahoran]

As was Richard Bushman, Dan Peterson and Teryl Givens.

Because, as Dehlin admitted to one of his anti-Mormon friends, "Grant Palmer is worth a Bushman."

Regards,

Pahoran

[stemelbow]

Because, as Dehlin admitted to one of his anti-Mormon friends, "Grant Palmer is worth a Bushman."

Regards,

Pahoran

There is worth to every soul, equal among us all.

[Robert F. Smith]

Why would anyone exit on false and poorly researched information?

Of course they would.  Snake oil salesmen and other grifters do a land-office business.  Always have.  P. T. Barnum said what?

[Damien the Leper]

Sandra Tanner, doyenne and Queen Regnant of the anti-Mormon demimonde, a member of MormonStories? Say it ain't so! What could possibly attract her to such an unashamedly pro-Mormon activity?

Of course, I'm aware of a truly absurd theory that might explain it, but it's just too unbelievable for words...

Regards,

Pahoran

 

I love your snark. You need to share it more often. Dead serious.

[Pahoran]

There is worth to every soul, equal among us all.

The context wasn't talking about the worth of souls. It was talking about Dehlin using the Bushmans, Givenses et al to market his project to believing Latter-day Saints. If interviewing Bushman means that some people will listen to Palmer that would otherwise have ignored him, then that's worth the trade-off for Mister Dehlin.

Regards,

Pahoran

[williamsmith]

Was she a Mormon?

 

If she was, then we have a Mormon story, whether you like the story or not.

 

Let's deal with "reality" now why don't we?

 

Sandra Tanner isn't there to share her "story" of her time in mormonism and her leaving (what 50 years ago?), she is there promoting what she "now" believes, trying to lead people out of the Church.

It is after all her "calling".  So, let's not lie to ourselves by saying she's just sharing her "Mormon Story".  Please.  She is allowed active promotion to lead people out of the Church.

That is decidedly different friend.

Edited July 10, 2014 by williamsmith

[stemelbow]

Let's deal with "reality" now why don't we?

 

Sandra Tanner isn't there to share her "story" of her time in mormonism and her leaving (what 50 years ago?), she is there promoting what she "now" believes, trying to lead people out of the Church.

It is after all her "calling".  So, let's not lie to ourselves by saying she's just sharing her "Mormon Story".  Please.  She is allowed active promotion to lead people out of the Church.

That is decidedly different friend.

Who cares? She's still just one person among the billions of us. She has no power to lead someone away anymore than anyone else. She simply speaks what she sees as the truth and it's because she has been able to show some the weakness of the LDS position, or inability to address the issues appropriately that she's had some success.

We act like we should fear some old lady. Only if she has truth, which she must have at least some. And if LDS have truth, the prove her wrong, then why fear her intent? She's got nothing. Or does she really have something?

[Pahoran]

Who cares? She's still just one person among the billions of us. She has no power to lead someone away anymore than anyone else. She simply speaks what she sees as the truth and it's because she has been able to show some the weakness of the LDS position, or inability to address the issues appropriately that she's had some success.

We act like we should fear some old lady. Only if she has truth, which she must have at least some. And if LDS have truth, the prove her wrong, then why fear her intent? She's got nothing. Or does she really have something?

Did you get that from William's post?

I didn't.

The question under discussion is whether, or on what basis, anyone can legitimately describe Sandra Tanner's anti-Mormon proselytizing as a "Mormon story" in any meaningful way.

For me, the expression "Mormon story" seems to imply a story that an actual Mormon (i.e. believing Latter-day Saint) tells. Others seem to think it's any story that has any connection at all with the Church or with members.

Ms Tanner has nothing to do with us. Therefore, for my money, she has no "Mormon story" to tell.

And those who think she does, seem to have to hold the bar very low.

Regards,

Pahoran

Edited July 11, 2014 by Pahoran

[readstoomuch]

I know for me, I am not afraid of an old lady.  I understand that MormonStories was started for people who were having questions or doubts, but I think that Sandra Tanner being on a MS Podcast convinced me that it is an anti-Mormon organization.  It provides very little support, information or perspective for any one who might still want to find their way as an active and believing latter-day-saint.  However it started, with John`s continual stream of waffling and the high ratio of critical to believing podcasts, MS has now become a downright anti-Mormon organization.  If only someone could end up at FairMormon or here instead.  I have seen it a hundred time.  Some saint going through a faith crisis comes on and starts asking questions and then glop, they get a whole bunch of negative perspective and mentally the okay that there is nothing wrong at all in leaving the Church.  John is still be outspoken despite his pending discipline.  After all, how dare the Church question him despite the steady stream of doubt and people that leave the Church because of his group.  I think it is ludicrous for those who say that he has helped so many people stay in the Church.  Horsefeathers!  A few people have stayed in the Church despite MS.  Increase the number of believing podcasts by five-fold and then find someone who could be a model of staying faithful and still believing-then you would have the possibility of a group that could be powerful.  John helped three members of my family out of the Church.  As I once heard, MormonStories is like Mormon kryptonite.  

[Storm Rider]

Who cares? She's still just one person among the billions of us. She has no power to lead someone away anymore than anyone else. She simply speaks what she sees as the truth and it's because she has been able to show some the weakness of the LDS position, or inability to address the issues appropriately that she's had some success.

We act like we should fear some old lady. Only if she has truth, which she must have at least some. And if LDS have truth, the prove her wrong, then why fear her intent? She's got nothing. Or does she really have something?

 

Good mischaracterization; you seem to do that often.  The issue is not of fear; the issue is giving her an additional soap box.  She does not have a "Mormon Story", rather her objective is to destroy another religious entity, The Church of Jesus Christ.  What makes it worse is that there was no attempt to review the standard of criticism she levels against the Church and applying it to her own or any other Church.  It was the same old drivel of, "gosh, we feel your pain".  

[Brian 2.0]

I know for me, I am not afraid of an old lady. I understand that MormonStories was started for people who were having questions or doubts, but I think that Sandra Tanner being on a MS Podcast convinced me that it is an anti-Mormon organization. It provides very little support, information or perspective for any one who might still want to find their way as an active and believing latter-day-saint. However it started, with John`s continual stream of waffling and the high ratio of critical to believing podcasts, MS has now become a downright anti-Mormon organization. If only someone could end up at FairMormon or here instead. I have seen it a hundred time. Some saint going through a faith crisis comes on and starts asking questions and then glop, they get a whole bunch of negative perspective and mentally the okay that there is nothing wrong at all in leaving the Church. John is still be outspoken despite his pending discipline. After all, how dare the Church question him despite the steady stream of doubt and people that leave the Church because of his group. I think it is ludicrous for those who say that he has helped so many people stay in the Church. Horsefeathers! A few people have stayed in the Church despite MS. Increase the number of believing podcasts by five-fold and then find someone who could be a model of staying faithful and still believing-then you would have the possibility of a group that could be powerful. John helped three members of my family out of the Church. As I once heard, MormonStories is like Mormon kryptonite.

I think Mormon Matters Podcast, which is part of the Open Stories Foundation, is what a lot of people on this thread want Mormon Stories to be.

[teddyaware]

I would love an interview with Satan.

And he was "in" at one point to technically he has a "Mormon Story" and his exit narrative all about the war in heaven would be fascinating from his perspective.

First question, "what do you say to the 100s and 1000s of those out there that say you don't actually exist?"

 

Satan's answer: "I am no devil, for there is none..." (2 Nephi 28) Meaning: "I -- the being whom the "misinformed" ignorantly call Satan -- actually do exist, but I'm no devil or so-called leader of evil spirits . How ridiculous! If you want to know the real "truth" of the matter, I'm actually a very good and compassionate person; and, sadly, it's my prevaricating enemies who've unjustly given me a bad rap by demonizing me and calling me Satan. If only you and all the rest of the hosts of heaven had joined me in dethroning the usurping impostors who now unrighteously rule in heaven, we would all be living in a heaven on earth right now! Yes, you can trust  me when I say that if only all had supported me in calling for the acceptance of my "great plan of wisdom," even now we would be living in a wonderful world of true justice, compassion, prosperity and peace, instead of the mess we're in now. No, I am no devil. But I'll let you in on a little secret, I am the (real) Only Begotten, worship me  (Moses1:17). Buy the way, you wouldn't happen to have a cigarette I could 'bum' from you, would ya?"

 

Observe how he says "I am no devil." He does indeed exist, but denies he's done anything wrong.

 

I know the above attempt at dark comedy doesn't answer your question as specifically as you may have liked, but I couldn't resist...

Edited July 11, 2014 by teddyaware

[UtahTexan]

What I remember most about Sandra Tanner is that she was right about Mark Hoffman and his forgeries.

[Tacenda]

What I remember most about Sandra Tanner is that she was right about Mark Hoffman and his forgeries.

That one sticks out in my mind too.  Why would the Tanner's get it before the church leaders?  What happened to the discernment that the PH leaders are supposed to have?  If it were caught in time, maybe some lives might have been saved before Mark went out of control with people believing his fake documents.   

[Kevin Christensen]

What I remember most about Sandra Tanner is that she was right about Mark Hoffman and his forgeries.

Actually, as I recall the story, it was Jerald, and not that he was right about Mark Hoffman, and Jerald and Sandra disagreed for a while. And Jerald did not think that Mark Hoffman had forged it, but that someone in the past had done so for Hoffman to find, based on the account in the Mormonism Unveiled affidavits that mentioned a toad, rather than an angel.

Speaking of discernment, I notice that Hoffman is in jail, and President Hinkley wasn't. If my expectations of church leaders and discernment is based on a consideration of history, such as God's prophet Samuel calling David to be a King, or Jesus calling Judas to be an apostle, or Joseph Smith accepting John C. Bennett, I find I have far less trouble than those who uncritically presume that God would not allow such and such to happen.

I remember a bitter lady in England, complaining that her husband had been a good and kind person all his life, and yet, "He still died!" I felt compassion for her, but I couldn't help but wonder where she got the idea that a virtuous life leads to immunity from death and misfortune.

It's a strange sad fact that people with unrealistic expectations tend to find that life brings disillusioning experience. History provides helpful lessons for those who pay attention.

Just saying.

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

P.S.

And let us not forget that the Tanners did not display any remarkable restraint or discernment in the case of Dr. Dee Jay Nelson, the worlds foremost Egyptologist, at the least, in his self promotion.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Kevin Christensen

[UtahTexan]

Actually, as I recall the story, it was Jerald, and not that he was right about Mark Hoffman, and Jerald and Sandra disagreed for a while. And Jerald did not think that Mark Hoffman had forged it, but that someone in the past had done so for Hoffman to find, based on the account in the Mormonism Unveiled affidavits that mentioned a toad, rather than an angel.

Speaking of discernment, I notice that Hoffman is jail, and President Hinkley wasn't. If my expectations of church leaders and discernment is based on a consideration of history, such as God's prophet Samuel calling David to be a King, or Jesus calling Judas to be an apostle, or Joseph Smith accepting John C. Bennett, I find I have far less trouble who uncritically presume that God would not allow such and such to happen.

I remember a bitter lady in England, complaining that her husband had been a good and kind person all his life, and yet, "He still died!" I felt compassion for her, but I couldn't help but wonder where she got the idea that a virtuous life leads to immunity from death and misfortune.

It's a strange sad fact that people with unrealistic expectations tend to find that life brings disillusioning experience. History provides helpful lessons for those who pay attention.

Just saying.

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

 

Thank you for correcting me.  You are right.  It was Gerald.  And my comment was not meant to question discernment.  I was just talking about my only real memory of Sandra Tanner....and even that was wrong

[longview]

What I remember most about Sandra Tanner is that she was right about Mark Hoffman and his forgeries.

That one sticks out in my mind too.  Why would the Tanner's get it before the church leaders?  What happened to the discernment that the PH leaders are supposed to have?  If it were caught in time, maybe some lives might have been saved before Mark went out of control with people believing his fake documents.

Tacenda, I think you are being a little too uncharitable. I well remember the events in the several months leading up to the deaths. I remember being extremely skeptical of the "Salamander Letters" and the "Joseph Smith III Blessing" but I was impressed with Pres. Hinckley's self-restraint and humility. It was Steven Christensen that purchased materials from Hofmann.  The forgeries were amazing deceptions done with old papers stolen out of Church archives.

But the Lord does not always prevent the wicked from carrying out their evil designs. You cannot blame Pres. Hinckley for the deaths.

 

But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter. (DC 10:37)

[Sleeper Cell]

I would love an interview with Satan.

And he was "in" at one point to technically he has a "Mormon Story" and his exit narrative all about the war in heaven would be fascinating from his perspective.

 

I think Milton beat you to it.

[Tacenda]

 

Tacenda, I think you are being a little too uncharitable. I well remember the events in the several months leading up to the deaths. I remember being extremely skeptical of the "Salamander Letters" and the "Joseph Smith III Blessing" but I was impressed with Pres. Hinckley's self-restraint and humility. It was Steven Christensen that purchased materials from Hofmann.  The forgeries were amazing deceptions done with old papers stolen out of Church archives.

But the Lord does not always prevent the wicked from carrying out their evil designs. You cannot blame Pres. Hinckley for the deaths.

 

But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter. (DC 10:37)

 

I think they were bought so that they could be safely put away and wouldn't damage the reputation of JS.