Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Vance]

CFR That the Bible says Jesus was ALWAYS human. 

It is in the same post you responded to with this CFR.

 

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .

 

Jesus ALWAYS was human, it was this humanness after which we were created.  The Bible says so.

[Vance]

Right. No, it's not taught in the Bible. 

So?  The Bible is OBVIOUSLY insufficient.

[bluebell]

My point was they studied to verify the truth. They didn't seek a revelation from God, when God has already told them in the scriptures what is true. 

I get really confused when someone who is a Christian tries to teach people that there are times that praying to ask God for wisdom and understanding is a bad thing.  

 

Is this teaching in the bible anywhere-that there are times when God does not want us to pray to Him or seek wisdom from Him?

[danielwoods]

I can tell you why... it does not meet his agenda nor his a priori assumptions.

 

Just curious. What is my agenda and a priori assumptions? 

[danielwoods]

Exactly, but it did cause some Jews to modify their interpretation of the old for it to be cohesive.  If those Jews were sola scripture like you, they would have been too stubborn to modify their interpretation to see the truth. 

 

Indeed, they were. They searched the scriptures to determine if Paul was telling the truth. I agree with you that their interpretation of some passages changed or were adjusted based on the new information. But, the principle of the LDS of praying to gain a witness of things isn't the principle they used. That's not to say that God wasn't involved. Rather, it's to point out that God uses what he's given us already, in addition to his Spirit. 

[danielwoods]

Those creedal limits are a bugger.

 

The truth will set you free. Those who the son has set free, are free indeed!

[danielwoods]

It is in the same post you responded to with this CFR.

 

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .

 

Jesus ALWAYS was human, it was this humanness after which we were created.  The Bible says so.

 

It actually doesn't say that. The word human isn't there. We were created out of the dust of the ground. Jesus is the only begotten. No other is begotten from the Father, only Christ. 

[danielwoods]

So?  The Bible is OBVIOUSLY insufficient.

 

Not according to Peter. 

[danielwoods]

I get really confused when someone who is a Christian tries to teach people that there are times that praying to ask God for wisdom and understanding is a bad thing.  

 

Is this teaching in the bible anywhere-that there are times when God does not want us to pray to Him or seek wisdom from Him?

 

As a Christian, we pray without ceasing. That is our attitude, our practice. Everything we encounter, we pray about. So, generally speaking, those things we seek wisdom for are things we don't understand, but know are true. Which is what James was talking about. In this case, Paul was teaching them the truth from the scripture, and those Jews searched the scriptures to verify it was true, it wasn't something they already understood was true, but needed wisdom to understand.

God is there, every step of the way. He gave us the scriptures. He gave us a heart and brain to study with. He gives us the spirit to guide us, every step of the way.  

[bluebell]

As a Christian, we pray without ceasing. That is our attitude, our practice. Everything we encounter, we pray about. So, generally speaking, those things we seek wisdom for are things we don't understand, but know are true. Which is what James was talking about. In this case, Paul was teaching them the truth from the scripture, and those Jews searched the scriptures to verify it was true, it wasn't something they already understood was true, but needed wisdom to understand.

God is there, every step of the way. He gave us the scriptures. He gave us a heart and brain to study with. He gives us the spirit to guide us, every step of the way.

Yet you seem to teach here that it's a bad thing to pray to get revelation from God and better to study the scriptures without praying to seek revelation.

[danielwoods]

Yet you seem to teach here that it's a bad thing to pray to get revelation from God and better to study the scriptures without praying to seek revelation.

 

The Christian life is all about walking in the Spirit, walking with Christ. We get to know him by studying the scriptures, first. We get to know his words, how he speaks, his heart through studying his word. As we grow then we are able to listen to his words directly to us. 

[Calm]

We get to know him by studying the scriptures, first.

 

I disagree.  The scriptures testify the world speaks of him, even without the scriptures in some fashion we would get to know God.

 

Also, the scriptures were written by men and this is what is said of the testimony of men compared to the Spirit:

 

1 John 5:9

 

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

I see nothing here that says one must listen to the witness of men through scripture first and only then will the witness of God come to you.

Edited January 3, 2015 by calmoriah

[ERayR]

The truth will set you free. Those who the son has set free, are free indeed!

 

Why do you attempt to bind others with your chains?  How do the limits you impose set you free?

[ERayR]

As a Christian, we pray without ceasing. That is our attitude, our practice. Everything we encounter, we pray about. So, generally speaking, those things we seek wisdom for are things we don't understand, but know are true. Which is what James was talking about. In this case, Paul was teaching them the truth from the scripture, and those Jews searched the scriptures to verify it was true, it wasn't something they already understood was true, but needed wisdom to understand.

God is there, every step of the way. He gave us the scriptures. He gave us a heart and brain to study with. He gives us the spirit to guide us, every step of the way.  

 

And he continues to give us prophets and scripture just as was done and reported in the Bible.

Edited January 3, 2015 by ERayR

[danielwoods]

I disagree.  The scriptures testify the world speaks of him, even without the scriptures in some fashion we would get to know God.

 

Also, the scriptures were written by men and this is what is said of the testimony of men compared to the Spirit:

 

1 John 5:9

 

I see nothing here that says one must listen to the witness of men through scripture first and only then will the witness of God come to you.

 

I agree with you that on a very basic level we are drawn to God in a very general way by nature.

 

I disagree with you that the author of the scriptures were men. The author is the Spirit of God, otherwise we wouldn't call it the word of God. For example, you quote a scripture, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son."  And that scripture tells us to listen to the testimony of God, and how do we do that if we don't know his voice? By reading his word, as it says, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

[danielwoods]

Why do you attempt to bind others with your chains?  How do the limits you impose set you free?

What chains are you referring to? 

I can only guess the limits you are referring to are the word of God?

 

And he continues to give us prophets and scripture just as was done and reported in the Bible.

 

It's interesting that Paul states that the church was given gifts for edification, but additional scripture wasn't mentioned... 

[LittleNipper]

Is knowledge of the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, etc., necessary for salvation? If it is, no one was saved from the Ascension of Jesus until the time of Joseph Smith. It is obvious to all believers that this is NOT the case. So, if the book of Mormon is not an essential prerequisite for Salvation, then why become a Mormon? And why should people read the book of Mormon when even Jesus never read it. Jesus did fulfill the Old Testament prophecies. And Jesus LIVED the New Testament and gave His chosen 12 Apostles and Disciples personal training and instruction that were later brought to their memory (by the Holy Ghost) to establish and nurture Christ's body of believers. 

[JLHPROF]

Is knowledge of the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, etc., necessary for salvation? If it is, no one was saved from the Ascension of Jesus until the time of Joseph Smith. It is obvious to all believers that this is NOT the case. So, if the book of Mormon is not an essential prerequisite for Salvation, then why become a Mormon? And why should people read the book of Mormon when even Jesus never read it. Jesus did fulfill the Old Testament prophecies. And Jesus LIVED the New Testament and gave His chosen 12 Apostles and Disciples personal training and instruction that were later brought to their memory (by the Holy Ghost) to establish and nurture Christ's body of believers. 

 

Hey, welcome back!

 

SO many things wrong with this:

1. Scripture of any kind is not necessary to salvation, only inasmuch as it teaches the things that ARE necessary - including baptism by authority.

2. Christ also lived parts of the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and depending on your interpretation, the Pearl of Great Price.

3. Why become a Mormon? - for the AUTHORITY necessary to achieve salvation.  The same authority the 12 Apostles had in Christs day.  Not just training and instruction, but the authority to bind on earth AND in heaven.  Just as we have today but the "body of believers" lack.

Edited January 3, 2015 by JLHPROF

[pogi]

Indeed, they were. They searched the scriptures to determine if Paul was telling the truth. I agree with you that their interpretation of some passages changed or were adjusted based on the new information. But, the principle of the LDS of praying to gain a witness of things isn't the principle they used. That's not to say that God wasn't involved. Rather, it's to point out that God uses what he's given us already, in addition to his Spirit. 

 

If you don't acknowledge that your interpretation might be wrong in light of new information (BoM) and spirit, then you are no better then the Jews who refused to accept new information because it "contradicted" their scripture.

 

Do you see the problem with that?  You cannot gain new knowledge if you judge "new information" against your interpretation of the bible instead of through the spirit - which may cause you to adjust your interpretation over time.  The early Jewish converts never would have been converted if they were like you, because their interpretation (like yours) could be the only right one, and Paul's teachings would have clearly contradicted their scripture. 

 

You have to acknowledge like the early Jewish converts, that there may be more than one possible interpretation, or you will falsely judge new information just like the non-believing Jews did.  You judge everything through the filter of your interpretation, which history has demonstrated with the Jews, may cause you to be blind to the truth.  You MUST keep an open mind and an open heart.   

 

Also note, that the early Jewish converts actually listened to, considered, and thought much about the teachings of Paul.  They did not reject him outright because his teachings "contradicted" their scripture.   Have you done the same with the Book of Mormon?  Or do you dismiss the Book of Mormon like the Jews dismissed Paul because it "contradicts" your scripture?  Trust in the spirit, trust that you don't know everything there is to know about scripture, trust that you may not interpret all scripture accurately - this is the honest and only way to truth.

Edited January 3, 2015 by pogi

[LittleNipper]

Thank you. Well, it is a New Year and I thought God got me here by accident for a reason. God baptizes with the Holy Spirit. A water baptism is merely an outward display of an inward experience. I believe all saved individuals possess the authority of GOD through the Holy Spirit and are able to perform water baptisms and also the Lord's Supper. This is because the saved are "gods" at a superior level to what "righteous" Jews once possessed. 

 

Christ is the head of a Universal Church. And all authority flows from and through Him. And again, the "Mormon organization" is relatively new. It seems highly unlikely that the Lord would have hidden pertinent information from His Apostles, disciples, and early Christians only to arbitrarily reveal it to someone named Smith. What the Lord does seem to do is reveal a fuller understanding of the Bible as history proceeds to its prophetic climax. Smith I know to be a rather worldly product of what Fundamentalists term the "Great Awakening." Everything I ever read concerning Smith points to the fact of him being very materialistic and power hungry.

[pogi]

It seems highly unlikely that the Lord would have hidden pertinent information from His Apostles, disciples, and early Christians only to arbitrarily reveal it to someone named Smith. 

 

There was no pertinent information hidden.  There were different dispensations throughout the history of the world.  This is the dispensation of the fullness of times as spoken of in scripture: "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him (Ephesians 1:10)"

All previous truths, keys, knowledge, etc. that were dispersed through the previous dispensations were prophesied to be "gathered together in one" in the last days. 

 

Everything I ever read concerning Smith points to the fact of him being very materialistic and power hungry.

 

 

What have you read?

[LittleNipper]

Have you ever seen an unflattering Mormon painting of Joseph Smith? In the History of the Church 4:461 --- Joseph Smith claims The Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth. And yet --- more changes have been made to that book in 170 years than to all the over 2000 year old manuscripts from the entire Bible combined illustrate. 

Edited January 3, 2015 by LittleNipper

[pogi]

Have you ever seen an unflattering Mormon painting of Joseph Smith?

 

No, I'm serious, what have you read?  Some books are more balanced, objective, and fair than others.  It helps me to understand your perspective of Joseph by understanding what books you have read.

[Bobbieaware]

Have you ever seen an unflattering Mormon painting of Joseph Smith? In the History of the Church 4:461 --- Joseph Smith claims The Book of Mormon to be the most correct book on earth. And yet --- more changes have been made to that book in 170 years than to all the over 2000 year old manuscripts from the entire Bible combined illustrate.

Most correct in doctrinal content, not the most correct in spelling, grammar and punctuation. Any seeming doctrinal changes are changes in doctrinal emphasis, not outright changes in the doctrine presented in any given verse.

[pogi]

more changes have been made to that book in 170 years than to all the over 2000 year old manuscripts from the entire Bible combined illustrate. 

 

How many different versions of the bible are there now?  How many times have each those versions been updated with newer editions?  If you compare the several micro changes in the Book of Mormon with the vast interpretations of the Bible, you will see that the changes are relatively small as compared to the macro linguistic changes made to the Bible.