Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Vance]

Not according to Peter. 

CFR!

[Vance]

Right, it's not taught in the Bible, and is contrary to what the Bible teaches. 

Nope.

 

It only is contrary to your erroneous interpretation of what the Bible teaches.  Not what the Bible actually teaches.  There is a difference you know.

[Vance]

2 Peter 1:20-21: "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (KJV)" 

So, if it was given by the Holy Ghost then the only way to properly interpret/translate it is through the Holy Ghost.   I doubt the translating part was done by the Holy Ghost.

 

As to your criticism of not having the original autographs. This wasn't the practice of the Jews, to keep originals. Rather, the practice was to both memorize and make exact copies of the originals, and destroy the old copies. While this may sound like a horrible way to preserve historical texts, the dead sea scrolls demonstrated that the practice was sound and accurate. So while your criticism sounds logical on the surface, it ignores the reality that both the NT and OT are reliable.

 

So, having older less corrupted manuscripts is evidence that having older less corrupt manuscripts is NOT better than having newer ones?????

 

Explain your logic with that one.

[Vance]

And yet it is a controversial claim, that their teachings are not derived from the Bible. 

Paul's teaching were not derived from the Bible.  So what is your point?

[Vance]

But any new "revelation" that doesn't agree with the previous revelation isn't what it claims. 

What about new revelation that doesn't agree with the erroneous interpretations of previous revelation?  Does that make it something other than what it claims?

[Vance]

Having changed my views before (I was an atheist), I can tell from what I have read of him, he's not worth reading, 8th grade arguments don't impress me.

I agree, your arguments do not impress.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Vance

[Vance]

If the Bible is sufficient answer this question.

 

Was Abraham justified by works or not?

 

 Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

[danielwoods]

CFR That the Bible says Jesus was NOT always human.

Wow... you can answer a CFR with another CFR. I didn't know that rule. Let me try that. 

 

CFR that the Bible says that Jesus was always human!

 

It says exactly what it says.  Jesus' body was also created out of the dust of the ground.  So?

 

 

 

Agreed.  But that doesn't make him non-human EVER, because the Father was human also.

 

The Father has always been almighty God, and never has been human. Jesus was the Word, and the Word become flesh at some point and dwelt among us. He put on flesh. In order to put on something, that means you didn't have that nature before. God never had that nature, Jesus put it on, to dwell with us. 

 

CFR!

2 Peter1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

 

The Bible is sufficient, he has given us all things. We are not in need of anything if we have the Bible and God's Spirit. 

[danielwoods]

 

If the Bible is sufficient answer this question.

 

Was Abraham justified by works or not?

 

 Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

 

 

You seriously aren't asking me this question are you? This must be your pet trick question since you know the answer. 

 

Romans is talking about works of the law. Abraham wasn't justified by works of the law (as no one was). 

 

James is taking about works of faith, or to put it more accurately, works that demonstrate his faith. 

 

I guess the Bible is sufficient after all!

[Flyonthewall]

Wow... you can answer a CFR with another CFR. I didn't know that rule. Let me try that. 

 

CFR that the Bible says that Jesus was always human!

 

 

The Father has always been almighty God, and never has been human. Jesus was the Word, and the Word become flesh at some point and dwelt among us. He put on flesh. In order to put on something, that means you didn't have that nature before. God never had that nature, Jesus put it on, to dwell with us. 

 

2 Peter1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

 

The Bible is sufficient, he has given us all things. We are not in need of anything if we have the Bible and God's Spirit.

Paul did not have the Bible. Paul was not speaking of the Bible in the words you cite as it did not exist.

What all has been given that is not included in the Bible? Are there any words, writings revelations that God has given that are not in the Bible? How much are you missing out on?

You will never know because you reject everything that is not in the Bible.

[LittleNipper]

The Bible is the Christian's STANDARD. I believe that everything a person needs to understand to be saved and become an adopted child of GOD is found in it pages. Please name something necessary for salvation and eternal security that is not found in the Bible. Please name something in the Bible that needs correcting.

[Anakin7]

      LN which "Holy Bible" are you reffering to as "The Standard"- Roman Catholic Bible, Orthodox Bible used by the 7 Families of The Orthodox Church, Ethiopian, NASB, NIV, KJV and the multitude of various translations throughout the world. ?. Ask any KJV Only advocate  and they will tell what needs correcting in all Bibles outside the KJV. There are scriptures added/taken away. Lets go to Jack Chick Publications - it's only about 20-30 minutes from my home.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

Edited January 6, 2015 by Anakin7

[bluebell]

The Bible is the Christian's STANDARD. I believe that everything a person needs to understand to be saved and become an adopted child of GOD is found in it pages. Please name something necessary for salvation and eternal security that is not found in the Bible. Please name something in the Bible that needs correcting.

 

Does the bible teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, or not?

[bluebell]

      LN which "Holy Bible" are you reffering to as "The Standard"- Roman Catholic, Orthodox Bible used by the 7 Families of The Orthodox Church, Ethiopian, NASB, NIV, KJV and the multitude of various translations throughout the world. ?. Ask any KJV Only advocate  and they will tell what needs correcting in all Bibles outside the KJV. There are scriptures added/taken away. Lets go to Jack Chick Publications - it's only about 20-30 minutes from my home.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

 

Exactly.

[Anakin7]

       Once adopted into family of God are they - Eternaly Secure or Conditionally Secure for Salvation ?.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

[danielwoods]

Paul did not have the Bible. Paul was not speaking of the Bible in the words you cite as it did not exist.

What all has been given that is not included in the Bible? Are there any words, writings revelations that God has given that are not in the Bible? How much are you missing out on?

You will never know because you reject everything that is not in the Bible.

 

Indeed Peter was speaking about the OT and the fellowship with Jesus directly through the Spirit in his daily life. We have all we need. 

 

Your question is based on a false premise. That it is my position that I reject everything not in the Bible. This is false.

 

I reject things based on whether or not they contradict the teachings and doctrines taught in the Bible. So for example, Joseph Smith taught many things, and some of those things I agree with, because they are also taught in the Bible. The things I disagree with, are things that are contradictory to what is taught in the Bible. At this point, I put that number about 60/40. I agree with the LDS church about 60% of the time. 

[Anakin7]

    DW, Wow MORE THAN 50% Thank you !. May True Grace be with you and your family !.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

[danielwoods]

    DW, Wow MORE THAN 50% Thank you !. May True Grace be with you and your family !.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

 

Thanks, and same to you!

[pogi]

Romans is talking about works of the law. Abraham wasn't justified by works of the law (as no one was). 

 

James is taking about works of faith, or to put it more accurately, works that demonstrate his faith. 

 

What exactly are "works of faith" that are not contained in the works of the law?  

 

Are not all good works done by faith also works of the law as contained in the law to love God and to love neighbor as self?  Give me one example of a work of faith that is not a work of the law. 

 

You cannot separate works of faith from works of the law.  James is clearly speaking about works of the law as was Paul.

 

Pay special attention to verses 15-17 in James 2, but it all points to the fact that James was speaking about works of the law when he said "faith without works is dead".  He gives a specific example.  What type of work is he talking about in verses 15-17?  Your answer lies in verse 8

 

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Edited January 6, 2015 by pogi

[danielwoods]

What exactly are "works of faith" that are not contained in the works of the law?  

 

Are not all good works done by faith also works of the law as contained in the law to love God and to love neighbor as self?  Give me one example of a work of faith that is not a work of the law. 

 

You cannot separate works of faith from works of the law.  James is clearly speaking about works of the law as was Paul.

 

Pay special attention to verses 15-17 in James 2, but it all points to the fact that James was speaking about works of the law when he said "faith without works is dead".  He gives a specific example.  What type of work he is talking about?  Your answer lies in verse 8

 

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

James gave you one good example of a work, that isn't a work of the law, but a work of faith. 

 

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

 

What work of the law required Abraham to offer Isaac on an alter? 

 

Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

[pogi]

What work of the law required Abraham to offer Isaac on an alter? 

 

"Love God with all of your heart might mind and strength." 

 

"For this is the love of God, that we obey his commandments."

 

Abraham was commanded to offer Isaac.

Edited January 6, 2015 by pogi

[Vance]

2 Peter1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

Reading stuff into the verses that aren't there.  AGAIN!

 

Those verses say nothing about the Bible. 

 

The Bible is sufficient,

No, it isn't and you even admit it in the following.

he has given us all things. We are not in need of anything if we have the Bible and God's Spirit.

 

By your own admission the Bible is insufficient.

 

Talk about ninth grade arguments.

[Vance]

You seriously aren't asking me this question are you? This must be your pet trick question since you know the answer. 

 

Romans is talking about works of the law. Abraham wasn't justified by works of the law (as no one was). 

 

James is taking about works of faith, or to put it more accurately, works that demonstrate his faith. 

 

I guess the Bible is sufficient after all!

So, we ARE justified by works.  Nice of you to admit that.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Vance

[Vance]

Wow... you can answer a CFR with another CFR. I didn't know that rule. Let me try that. 

 

CFR that the Bible says that Jesus was always human!

I already provided the reference.

 

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

  27 So God created man in his own, image in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

Gen 5:3 ¶ And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Edited January 6, 2015 by Vance

[Anakin7]

       Great dialogues keep it up everyone !.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       anakin7

Edited January 6, 2015 by Anakin7