Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[bluebell]

No. I understand that the LDS believe in progression. 

 

That's good.

 

I guess i don't see the point in arguing that we don't have all of the attributes of God with someone who agrees with you on that.

[danielwoods]

The first part I can not agree with because it is not true.  As for the second part. yes, thank God for further revelation!!

 

If it was taught, then why the need for further revelation? 

[danielwoods]

That's good.

 

I guess i don't see the point in arguing that we don't have all of the attributes of God with someone who agrees with you on that.

 

I don't believe those attributes of God are communicable. 

[ERayR]

If it was taught, then why the need for further revelation? 

 

Obviously you have not accepted what was taught.  Because of misinterpretation obviously.

[danielwoods]

Obviously you have not accepted what was taught.  Because of misinterpretation obviously.

 

So further revelation exists because of misinterpretation? 

[pogi]

If it was taught, then why the need for further revelation? 

 

See post 2572.  Look around dude, there is not a universal understanding of the bible.  We need it for clarification and reinforcement.  Just like the Jews needed clarification of the previous revelations.  When people don't understand (which is obvious or we would all believe the same) we need revelation.

[pogi]

So further revelation exists because of misinterpretation? 

 

Misinterpretations, translation errors, transcription errors, incomplete writings in the bible, and further light and knowledge. 

[danielwoods]

See post 2572.  Look around dude, there is not a universal understanding of the bible.  We need it for clarification and reinforcement.  Just like the Jews needed clarification of the previous revelations.  When people don't understand (which is obvious or we would all believe the same) we need revelation.

 

 

Misinterpretations, translation errors, transcription errors, incomplete writings in the bible, and further light and knowledge. 

 

Interesting. Is that what the Jews did? 

 

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

[Vance]

 

Inconsistent would be to claim that when Jesus said he was one with the Father, that it means one in purpose.

Just the opposite is true.  In the human context, one in purpose is EXACTLY what it means.

 

  If it meant that, they wouldn't have reacted the way they did.

They would have reacted the same even if he would have left that part unsaid. 

As you know the "Word" is a reference to Jesus, who was God and was with God and then He was "made" flesh and dwelt among us. He didn't have flesh before, hence not human.

There you go again, injecting something in that isn't there and doesn't belong.

 

Heb. 2 14-17 clearly shows that Jesus was always human, just like "his brethren".

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"

Which contradicts this verse,

 

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .

Jesus took upon himself humanity and was made in the likeness of men. He wasn't made in our likeness before he did this.

 

Jesus ALWAYS was human, it was this humanness after which we were created.  The Bible says so.

[Teancum]

Bart isn't a reliable source. I'm not sure I have time to refute every point of his (actually I'm certain I don't). But, we could take one point that you think he makes that is really strong and analyze it. 

 

 

Oh of course not. He may challenge your world view and cause the foundations of your shaky claims to crumble.  He only happens to be one of the foremost NT scholars in the USA.  Oh and he was an EV until he realized how difficult the position of the biblical innerenist is.

 

No I really have no desire to do a point by point refutation or even one.  Live is tough. If you need your religion to get through it good for you. I am not anti religion as long as it does not hurt others.

 

But your religion is no more true than you think the LDS faith is false.

[Vance]

CFR that man is infinite as Gods nature is.

D&C 39:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

[Teancum]

Bart isn't a reliable source. I'm not sure I have time to refute every point of his (actually I'm certain I don't). But, we could take one point that you think he makes that is really strong and analyze it. 

  Did you bother to read the Newsweek article at all

 

It really has EVs up in arms

 

Poor persecuted bunch.......

[pogi]

Interesting. Is that what the Jews did? 

 

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

 

Do you really think that the other Jews just closed their eyes to the scriptures, or did they simply interpret it different?  If they all understood the scriptures properly, they would have all accepted the Christ. 

[Teancum]

Why won't you read what is written instead of adding layers of complexity which are not there?  There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

 

I can tell you why... it does not meet his agenda nor his a priori assumptions.

[Vance]

 

The idea that we lived previously is contrary to the teaching of the NT, where Jesus said we are from below, and he is from above.  "²³ And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above:"  (John 8 )

We have been over this before. 

 

We don't buy your interpretation. We have shown you numerous verses that show a pre-mortal existence.

Get over it.  Move on.

[Vance]

Interesting. Is that what the Jews did? 

 

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Yes, they checked the Old Testament to see if what Paul taught (Paul's interpretation of it) was reasonable. And they found that it was reasonable, even though it was different from what they had understood.

 

So, what is your point?

Edited January 2, 2015 by Vance

[danielwoods]

Just the opposite is true.  In the human context, one in purpose is EXACTLY what it means.

 

 

 

They would have reacted the same even if he would have left that part unsaid. 

 

 

There you go again, injecting something in that isn't there and doesn't belong.

 

Heb. 2 14-17 clearly shows that Jesus was always human, just like "his brethren".

 

 

Which contradicts this verse,

 

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: . . .

 

 

 

Jesus ALWAYS was human, it was this humanness after which we were created.  The Bible says so.

 

CFR That the Bible says Jesus was ALWAYS human. 

[danielwoods]

Oh of course not. He may challenge your world view and cause the foundations of your shaky claims to crumble.  He only happens to be one of the foremost NT scholars in the USA.  Oh and he was an EV until he realized how difficult the position of the biblical innerenist is.

 

No I really have no desire to do a point by point refutation or even one.  Live is tough. If you need your religion to get through it good for you. I am not anti religion as long as it does not hurt others.

 

But your religion is no more true than you think the LDS faith is false.

 

He doesn't shake anything. His points aren't really founded on facts. 

 

  Did you bother to read the Newsweek article at all

 

It really has EVs up in arms

 

Poor persecuted bunch.......

 

I started to read it, and got to the point where I felt like I was wasting my time. Like I said, if you want to go through it point by point, that would be interesting.

[danielwoods]

D&C 39:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

 

Right. No, it's not taught in the Bible. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by danielwoods

[danielwoods]

Do you really think that the other Jews just closed their eyes to the scriptures, or did they simply interpret it different?  If they all understood the scriptures properly, they would have all accepted the Christ. 

 

My point was they studied to verify the truth. They didn't seek a revelation from God, when God has already told them in the scriptures what is true. 

[pogi]

My point was they studied to verify the truth. They didn't seek a revelation from God, when God has already told them in the scriptures what is true. 

 

Yet they received new scripture in part to verify and clarify old scripture. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by pogi

[danielwoods]

Yet they received new scripture in part to verify and clarify old scripture. 

 

Right. And it didn't contradict the old. 

[pogi]

Right. And it didn't contradict the old. 

 

Exactly, but it did cause some Jews to modify their interpretation of the old for it to be cohesive.  If those Jews were sola scripture like you, they would have been too stubborn to modify their interpretation to see the truth. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by pogi

[ERayR]

I started to read it, and got to the point where I felt like I was wasting my time. Like I said, if you want to go through it point by point, that would be interesting.

 

I know exactly what you mean.

[ERayR]

Right. No, it's not taught in the Bible. 

 

Those creedal limits are a bugger.