City Creek Mall

[why me]

This is from the KSL:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=26009680&nid=148&title=city-creek-single-most-important-thing-to-happen-to-slc-in-50-years&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-1

SALT LAKE CITY — City Creek Mall is getting some national attention. Business analysts call the recent development a good mix of business and religion.

Some are saying the mall is the best thing to happen to Salt Lake City in 50 years.

A recent New York Times article says the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spent hundreds of millions of dollars on City Creek Mall. They analyzed whether or not the Church's investment paid off.

"(The) mall is the single most important thing to happen to Salt Lake City in 50 years, maybe more," Bruce Bingham, a partner with Hamilton Partners, a Chicago-based real estate developer, told The New York Times. "It revitalized downtown."

The mall opened a little more than a year ago and added 2,000 jobs, which brought more than 16 million visitors into downtown, according to a 2013 Economic Benchmark Report, paid for by the real estate firm CBRE.

The report also credits City Creek Mall with boosting downtown retail sales by 36 percent in 2012 — roughly $209 million.

Hamilton Partners also tells The New York Times that because of City Creek Mall's success and financial backing from the LDS Church, banks feel comfortable and safe doing commercial lending for new projects, at least with this development company.

(The) mall is the single most important thing to happen to Salt Lake City in 50 years, maybe more. It revitalized downtown.

–Bruce Bingham

"The Church put a whole bunch of people to work during a deep recession," said Church member Kevin Barney, 54, from Chicago. "For another thing, downtown Salt Lake City had become blighted, and that area is sort of like the Mormon Vatican. I think the Church had a responsibility to do something about it if it could."

Executive director of Salt Lake City's Downtown Alliance Jason Mathis said the mall has drawn positive and negative opinions.

"In this community," where amost 40 percent of the city's residents are Church members, "the LDS is such a powerful large entity, it will be more controversial and evoke strong feelings," he said. "But they're an interesting landlord. They're not worried about the next quarter. They have a much longer perspective than many other investors would have had. They want to know what the city will look like in the next 50 or 100 years."

Religious observance affects City Creek Mall. Unlike most shopping malls around the country, shops there, except restaurants, are closed on Sundays.

I think that the critics must be eating crow now about the Mall. It is obviously a success story and not a waste of money as the critics claimed when it opened. The lds church deserves much credit for this investment and the opportunity that the mall has provided for jobs not just for the mall but for downtown salt lake.

[Ahab]

Now I can see the wisdom in our leader's decision to invest in this. Before I didn't know what to think about it, but now it just clicks.

I still haven't been there to see it but I'll make it a point to go take a look if I'm ever in that area, again. It's about a 9 hour drive for me, which isn't too bad, and my wife is usually always in the mood for another road trip.

Interesting fact about the restaurants being opened on Sundays, though. We normally don't do any kind of buying on Sundays, but I guess non-members anad out of town visitors need to have someplace good to eat.

[Tacenda]

Now I can see the wisdom in our leader's decision to invest in this. Before I didn't know what to think about it, but now it just clicks.

I still haven't been there to see it but I'll make it a point to go take a look if I'm ever in that area, again. It's about a 9 hour drive for me, which isn't too bad, and my wife is usually always in the mood for another road trip.

Interesting fact about the restaurants being opened on Sundays, though. We normally don't do any kind of buying on Sundays, but I guess non-members anad out of town visitors need to have someplace good to eat.

I went to Heber, Utah and visited a resort, The Homestead. They have a yummy breakfast buffet on Sundays, and the waitress there said that some of the GA's or maybe some of the 12, not sure, have eaten there for this. So I don't think they worry too much about eating out on Sunday. Edited July 16, 2013 by Tacenda

[rockpond]

Now I can see the wisdom in our leader's decision to invest in this. Before I didn't know what to think about it, but now it just clicks.

I still haven't been there to see it but I'll make it a point to go take a look if I'm ever in that area, again. It's about a 9 hour drive for me, which isn't too bad, and my wife is usually always in the mood for another road trip.

Interesting fact about the restaurants being opened on Sundays, though. We normally don't do any kind of buying on Sundays, but I guess non-members anad out of town visitors need to have someplace good to eat.

That City Creek Mall has, in its construction and first year of operation, been a good thing for SLC does not mean that it was a good investment nor does it mean that it was the best use of those funds.

[Ahab]

That City Creek Mall has, in its construction and first year of operation, been a good thing for SLC does not mean that it was a good investment nor does it mean that it was the best use of those funds.

Yes it does. Money is good for nothing unless it is spent, and I'm sure there are lots of good things in that mall to spend money buying on top of what that money has already done. The words "revitalized downtown" were all I needed to hear.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

That City Creek Mall has, in its construction and first year of operation, been a good thing for SLC does not mean that it was a good investment nor does it mean that it was the best use of those funds.

Time will tell??

[Storm Rider]

That City Creek Mall has, in its construction and first year of operation, been a good thing for SLC does not mean that it was a good investment nor does it mean that it was the best use of those funds.

Best use of funds is a very subjective standard. What is obvious is that from an economic standpoint this mall has been a great boon for SLC downtown. Being an institutional portfolio manager I can point you to dozens of cities with downtowns that are a complete blight all due to either the shortsightedness of the local municipality's planning or because there was no investor willing to take the risk of investing. When the cities downtown core rots so does the city. From a strictly economic position, this is virtually impossible to criticize with any degree of valid argument. If you want to argue other issues, it is debatable.

[cinepro]

I can't speak to the financial aspects of the mall, but I spent an hour or two there two weeks ago, and I wasn't impressed. The "creek" was nice (and it was nice to get out of the heat!), but as far as malls go, it seemed very expensive and very empty.

Granted this was a weekday afternoon in the summer, and I'm not a "mall" person per se. But after seeing it discussed for years, I was a little underwhelmed. After walking from the Microsoft store end to the Tiffany & Co. end, I just went to the Deseret Book to kill time.

But it would be awesome if the mall pulled in billions of dollars for the investment arm of the Church. Just think of all the really awesome Christian stuff that could be done with that kind of money!

[rockpond]

Best use of funds is a very subjective standard. What is obvious is that from an economic standpoint this mall has been a great boon for SLC downtown. Being an institutional portfolio manager I can point you to dozens of cities with downtowns that are a complete blight all due to either the shortsightedness of the local municipality's planning or because there was no investor willing to take the risk of investing. When the cities downtown core rots so does the city. From a strictly economic position, this is virtually impossible to criticize with any degree of valid argument. If you want to argue other issues, it is debatable.

The article provided by the OP only speaks to economic impacts on SLC.

From a strictly economic position, wouldn't one also need to look at the ROI to objectively determine the value of the investment?

[rockpond]

Time will tell??

In some ways but not in all because we're not likely to ever know the ROI to the church.

[Ahab]

I can't speak to the financial aspects of the mall, but I spent an hour or two there two weeks ago, and I wasn't impressed. The "creek" was nice (and it was nice to get out of the heat!), but as far as malls go, it seemed very expensive and very empty.

Translation: Not crowded and they spent enough money to make it a nice mall. Sounds even better to me now. I don't like shuffling through crowds, even in nice surroundings, as I go about to get what I want. Was the creek inside or outside? Sounds like you might mean it's inside and that sounds like a very nice feature.

Granted this was a weekday afternoon in the summer, and I'm not a "mall" person per se.

Wow, not even crowded in the summer when kids are out of school and able to get out and about. I like hearing that too.

But after seeing it discussed for years, I was a little underwhelmed. After walking from the Microsoft store end to the Tiffany & Co. end, I just went to the Deseret Book to kill time.

But it would be awesome if the mall pulled in billions of dollars for the investment arm of the Church. Just think of all the really awesome Christian stuff that could be done with that kind of money!

I'd call it a success if they just broke even, financially, because they'd still have added a nice place in the heart of the city.

[Mark Beesley]

I think that the critics must be eating crow now about the Mall. It is obviously a success story and not a waste of money as the critics claimed when it opened. The lds church deserves much credit for this investment and the opportunity that the mall has provided for jobs not just for the mall but for downtown salt lake.

If the criticism was that the Church would lose money on this investment, then those critics might be eating crow. I do not believe, however, that this was the criticism being made. I think the criticisms were two-fold:

1. A lack of transparency as to where the investment dollars came from; and

2. Using money for this kind of commercial venture rather than using that same money to do something that looked a bit more "Christian."

The article does not really speak to those criticisms.

[Scott Lloyd]

I went to Heber, Utah and visited a resort, The Homestead. They have a yummy breakfast buffet on Sundays, and the waitress there said that some of the GA's or maybe some of the 12, not sure, have eaten there for this. So I don't think they worry too much about eating out on Sunday.

My gossip alarm just went off.

[Scott Lloyd]

If the criticism was that the Church would lose money on this investment, then those critics might be eating crow. I do not believe, however, that this was the criticism being made. I think the criticisms were two-fold:

1. A lack of transparency as to where the investment dollars came from; and

2. Using money for this kind of commercial venture rather than using that same money to do something that looked a bit more "Christian."

The article does not really speak to those criticisms.

I clearly remember, though I doubt I could find it right now, some online criticism guffawing about the fact that the construction occurred in the midst of the Great Recession and speculating that the Church is apt to lose its shirt on the project.

[bluebell]

Translation: Not crowded and they spent enough money to make it a nice mall. Sounds even better to me now. I don't like shuffling through crowds, even in nice surroundings, as I go about to get what I want. Was the creek inside or outside? Sounds like you might mean it's inside and that sounds like a very nice feature.

Wow, not even crowded in the summer when kids are out of school and able to get out and about. I like hearing that too.

I'd call it a success if they just broke even, financially, because they'd still have added a nice place in the heart of the city.

The mall/creek is both inside and outside. It has a retractable roof so it is open in sunny weather and closed when it's yucky out. It's also got a few really nice fountains, one or two of which are also timed with lights and music. I'm not much of a shopper, so the mall was not that exciting to me, but my friends who are, LOVE that place.

[Mark Beesley]

I clearly remember, though I doubt I could find it right now, some online criticism guffawing about the fact that the construction occurred in the midst of the Great Recession and speculating that the Church is apt to lose its shirt on the project.

Well, I'll have to defer since I don't spend as much time online as some folks. I did not see that criticism made, but the ones I addressed I saw repeatedly.

[Ahab]

The mall/creek is both inside and outside. It has a retractable roof so it is open in sunny weather and closed when it's yucky out. It's also got a few really nice fountains, one or two of which are also timed with lights and music. I'm not much of a shopper, so the mall was not that exciting to me, but my friends who are, LOVE that place.

Thank you for those details. I'm not really into shopping, either, but I like nice places to go for things and someone mentioned something about some nice restaurants. Probably has a food court too, I suppose. Maybe also a movie theatre, or one close by? I'd like to check it out sometime, and I like knowing it's all downtown close to Temple Square.

[Scott Lloyd]

I'd call it a success if they just broke even, financially, because they'd still have added a nice place in the heart of the city.

Which, as I understand it, was the Church's intent. I don't think it was ever meant to be a cash cow.

[Scott Lloyd]

Well, I'll have to defer since I don't spend as much time online as some folks.

Veiled dig noted.

I see you on here quite a bit, actually.

I did not see that criticism made, but the ones I addressed I saw repeatedly.

I'm fairly confident that every possible criticism that could have been made was made.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

Thank you for those details. I'm not really into shopping, either, but I like nice places to go for things and someone mentioned something about some nice restaurants. Probably has a food court too, I suppose. Maybe also a movie theatre, or one close by? I'd like to check it out sometime, and I like knowing it's all downtown close to Temple Square.

It does have a food court (which is indoors and very nice, as food courts go) as well as other restaurants. I don't know about a theater. I don't live in Utah and have only visited the mall once so i'm sure I missed a lot.

[rockpond]

Veiled dig noted.

Not sure how Mark intended it but given your profession, this seems like a valid place to spend time.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I clearly remember, though I doubt I could find it right now, some online criticism guffawing about the fact that the construction occurred in the midst of the Great Recession and speculating that the Church is apt to lose its shirt on the project.

I seem to recall it being made but it was never a central critisism. The biggest was that it was going to cost 2 bil and it was tithing money that was being used. Of course that was never once substantiated. The tithing part of it anyway.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Veiled dig noted.

I was about to not respond to this. But I really don't think Mark intended a dig. And if he did I am not sure how spending time on this board is a bad thing. Any way carry on.

[Scott Lloyd]

I seem to recall it being made but it was never a central critisism. The biggest was that it was going to cost 2 bil and it was tithing money that was being used. Of course that was never once substantiated. The tithing part of it anyway.

Not only was it never substantiated, it was explicitly denied. From the general conference pulpit.

[Scott Lloyd]

I was about to not respond to this. But I really don't think Mark intended a dig. And if he did I am not sure how spending time on this board is a bad thing. Any way carry on.

Perhaps I'm oversensitive.