City Creek Mall

[why me]

One of the greatest parables of the entire Bible is the story of the three servants and the talents...also we are commanded to be good stewards of the gifts and blessing we have. Also the profits from this mall (via the Prophets) will end up building Chapels, Temples, feeding the hungry and dressing the poor. Or maybe others think that money should just be in Banks earning min interest and the poor suffering as a result while churches are decaying over time...or maybe getting loans and being in perpetual debt?

This is overlooked by the critics. What they attempt to make some hay on is the connotation of a church investing in a shopping mall. And they can make a little hay over it and they did in the beginning. I remember reading threads on critic sites where members would leave the fold over it, it being the straw that broke the camel's back. But that was very shortsighted. Investing in one's community can be a wonderful investment especially if it is successful.

[rockpond]

Your suggestions, please? I also think that we need to understand that the lds have always been concerned with their local environment. The towns of Kirkland and Nauvoo were well planned to give the saints a comfortable place to live. I look upon the church's involvement in downtown salt lake as a sign that they are still concerned with a city that contains their headquarters and a city where members come to from all over the world. I think that it is wonderful that the lds church is concerned with the outside surroundings.

Suggestions? Off the top of my head: educational or research institutions, make SLC the center of world humanitarian aid efforts, apartments and housing for the middle class who would love to live in downtown SLC, or even a mall that catered to more modest incomes.

In Kirtland & Nauvoo times the church wasn't global. I too appreciate that the church is concerned with the surroundings in its headquarters city, I just wish we could have found a way to improve the dowtown core that was more consistent with our mission. Call me crazy, but this just doesn't seem like something that should have been financed solely by the church...

[why me]

Not only was it never substantiated, it was explicitly denied. From the general conference pulpit.

The lie that the critics told worked really well for them. It is amazing how they can use lies and deceit to further their own purposes of getting people to leave the fold. They tend to hide important information for their own purposes. And the Mall funding was a good case in point.

[why me]

Suggestions? Off the top of my head: educational or research institutions, make SLC the center of world humanitarian aid efforts, apartments and housing for the middle class who would love to live in downtown SLC, or even a mall that catered to more modest incomes.

Not practical. However, I do believe that the church does invest in educational institutions. I do believe that BYU is a major recruitment center for the students who are entering the workplace because of its educational reputation. I don't think that apartments would be suitable for that area. But somewhere else, I am sure that the church has or would make such an investment. We need to remember that this mall is one of many investments that the church has.

[why me]

Call me crazy, but this just doesn't seem like something that should have been financed solely by the church...

I don't think that it was. It seems to me that there were also outside help in making this project a success. And I do believe that there was much discussion about what would work for that area and how it should work. I think that this took much research by outside firms and much prayer. We also need to remember the jobs that have been created because of this mall that are outside this mall. Truck drivers are needed to deliver the goods to the mall. Loaders are needed to load the trucks etc.

[why me]

If the criticism was that the Church would lose money on this investment, then those critics might be eating crow. I do not believe, however, that this was the criticism being made. I think the criticisms were two-fold:

1. A lack of transparency as to where the investment dollars came from; and

2. Using money for this kind of commercial venture rather than using that same money to do something that looked a bit more "Christian."

The article does not really speak to those criticisms.

Why should the article address such issues? If the church was only investing in shopping malls maybe I could understand the criticism more. But we all know that this is just one investment among many. In the outside world, this is not an issue, a church investing in a mall. But for the critics it is an issue only because they want to make hay from highlighting a possible negative connotation that they could use to influence members. Has any church or outside source offered the criticisms that the critics have?

What is sad about it all is that church investments provide thousands of jobs for people. It is part of the church's strategy to get people to work.

[Stone holm]

Suggestions? Off the top of my head: educational or research institutions, make SLC the center of world humanitarian aid efforts, apartments and housing for the middle class who would love to live in downtown SLC, or even a mall that catered to more modest incomes.

In Kirtland & Nauvoo times the church wasn't global. I too appreciate that the church is concerned with the surroundings in its headquarters city, I just wish we could have found a way to improve the dowtown core that was more consistent with our mission. Call me crazy, but this just doesn't seem like something that should have been financed solely by the church...

Yeah. She has really poor posture, you would have thought they could of gotten a model with better posture.

[Scott Lloyd]

Why does the church need a mall in SLC?

Why does the church own something that encourages people to:

- break the sabbath

- break the word of wisdom

- break modesty guidelines

- focus on materialism and the trappings of wealth

There is little value in Gucci hangbags and Rolex watches beyond the "look at me" value it brings. And that's the kind of pride the Book of Mormon warns about. In fact there's a whole city that get quite hung up on that. And look at the good it did them.

I'm not much interested in your carping except to point out that City Creek is closed on Sundays.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I love that theater!! I go every time I get the chance.

Cinepro was making a sarcastic reference to the Legacy Theater, a large-screen facility in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building that is currently showing "Joseph Smith, Prophet of the Restoration."

More to the point, I'm quite certain City Creek has no theaters, but movie theaters abound in Salt Lake City and its surrounding suburbs. For example, the Gateway Mall just a few blocks west has movie theaters. Or if it's the legitimate theater you have in mind, there's the Capitol Theater, a professional venue near City Creek.

[bluebell]

Cinepro was making a sarcastic reference to the Legacy Theater, a large-screen facility in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building that is currently showing "Joseph Smith, Prophet of the Restoration."

I know. That was the theater I was talking about. I love going there!

[Bikeemikey]

Maybe it will go to build chapels, temples, feed the poor, or clothe the naked. But when those of who opposed City Creek voiced our complaints on here we were told that these were not sacred funds. This is just money that the church has in its investment arm. It's meant to be invested and increase NOT help the poor and needy.

If there are profits from this endeavor, who is to say that they won't just be used for the next commercial project?

Also nice to know the church holds the opinion that there is money that is not meant to help the poor.

[cdowis]

I went to Heber, Utah and visited a resort, The Homestead. They have a yummy breakfast buffet on Sundays, and the waitress there said that some of the GA's or maybe some of the 12, not sure, have eaten there for this. So I don't think they worry too much about eating out on Sunday.

When I was on my mission, the mission president invited all the missionaries in the city to go to Sunday lunch.

[canard78]

I'm not much interested in your carping except to point out that City Creek is closed on Sundays.

Carp, carp, carp...

So Cheesecake doesn't count on a Sunday? I'll bear that in mind.

Even though all shops will be closed that day, the mall’s common areas will be open to the public from 6:30 a.m. to 10 p.m. The Cheesecake Factory and Texas de Brazil Churrascaria restaurants will be open.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/53616525-79/creek-mall-center-open.html.csp

The project's biggest restaurant, The Cheesecake Factory, was packed with patrons Sunday . Since the restaurant opened, there have been at least 150 names on the two and a half hour long waiting list, according to Priscilla Urquides, a hostess at the restaurant.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19730723

I guess those two stay open on a land-ownership technicality:

Mall operator Taubman Centers... owns land under two of the restaurants, Texas de Brazil and the Cheesecake Factory, the only establishments open on Sundays

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=25666698

Given you're only trying to refute the Sabbath one are you acknowledging that the Church-owned mall does offer people the option of breaking the WOW/modesty standards/encourages materialism?

[canard78]

When I was on my mission, the mission president invited all the missionaries in the city to go to Sunday lunch.

I have to say I was quite surprised at how many American Mormons think eating out on a Sunday is perfectly normal. Do they not have working kitchens? Or have they forgotten how to cook, what with all the eating out that happens on the other 6 days?

[Stone holm]

I have to say I was quite surprised at how many American Mormons think eating out on a Sunday is perfectly normal. Do they not have working kitchens? Or have they forgotten how to cook, what with all the eating out that happens on the other 6 days?

For some people it was a tradition to give the wife/mother a day off, it just didn't occur to the father/husband to cook.

[cdowis]

Planning a city or settlement for the saints to dwell is different than pouring hundreds of millions into an upscale shopping center.

You need to do your homework. Are you familiar with ZCMI, Zion's Bank, etc etc

And, City Creek Mall was not the only way to salvage downtown SLC.

And what would you suggest. There are many cities across the world that could use your suggestions.

[canard78]

For some people it was a tradition to give the wife/mother a day off, it just didn't occur to the father/husband to cook.

I guess it at least has good intentions. But that's a bit lame on the husbands behalf. Surely it would be nicer to take everyone out on Saturday to give wife/mother the day off?

[Tacenda]

I don't know why they don't just close the restaurants too, but am pretty impressed that they have closed the stores in the mall on Sunday. I'll have to take a stab and say it's probably one of the only malls in the U.S. that does. In my mind I don't even think the ZCMI mall was closed on Sunday.

[rodheadlee]

Indeed. There are plenty of other cities in the world also going 'kapput' - will the church also be investing in those? Didn't think so.

Doesn't it make sense to clean up your own house before attempting to clean up some one else's house?

[Stone holm]

Doesn't it make sense to clean up your own house before attempting to clean up some one else's house?

Especially when Salt Lake City is synonymous in most people's minds with Mormonism, regardless of whether that is actually true anymore. Course they could have just considered pulling up stakes and moving Church Headquarters to Missouri....nawh lets save all that for the Millennium.

[Ahab]

Indeed - and I'm sure the City Creek is full of life's essentials and encourages people to be humble and live within their means.

The steak and chicken joints, washed down with beer to help you keep healthy and observe the Word of Wisdom

The fine watches and jewelry (Rolex and Tiffany anyone?) to help us look beautiful.

Even when rich people buy yachts the money "trickles" down to the poor, don't cha know, as the people who built the yacht get paid for the work they did to build the yacht go about spending their money and that money keeps tricking down to the people who get paid for what others buy. Even when people buy beer the money keeps trickling. Of course, I'd prefer much more than a trickle but hey what can you do when everyone is looking for a "bargain" when they shop before they spend much of their money. If only more people would spend their money as fast as I can when I get some the whole world would get their hands on enough money to make everyone rich. It's only when I run out of money, and stop working, that I stop being a benefit to society.

Of course if we give up the cost of two meals a month that puts our conscience at rest. We go hungry for 24 hours so the world doesn't have to. And yet as BP I was constantly being told to reign in the welfare.

Sounds like you were trying to be as charitable as I've tried to be which has ended me up in the poor house, monetarily. I need to exercise restraint too because I only have so much money to work with due to the little trickle that I get from others.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Ahab

[Questing Beast]

I don't think that it was. It seems to me that there were also outside help in making this project a success. And I do believe that there was much discussion about what would work for that area and how it should work. I think that this took much research by outside firms and much prayer. We also need to remember the jobs that have been created because of this mall that are outside this mall. Truck drivers are needed to deliver the goods to the mall. Loaders are needed to load the trucks etc.

"Make you friends of the children of mammon" is the Lord's advice to his disciples, and the LDS Church is very good at pursuing that advice....

[Questing Beast]

I have to say I was quite surprised at how many American Mormons think eating out on a Sunday is perfectly normal. Do they not have working kitchens? Or have they forgotten how to cook, what with all the eating out that happens on the other 6 days?

They are obeying the commandment to "let your meals be prepared with singleness of heart", i.e. work as little as necessary to prepare your meals. What is easier than waiting around for two hours while somebody else fixes your meals for you? You are not making them work on the Sabbath, after all....

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I have to say I was quite surprised at how many American Mormons think eating out on a Sunday is perfectly normal. Do they not have working kitchens? Or have they forgotten how to cook, what with all the eating out that happens on the other 6 days?

IT still surprises me and I have lived in Utah most of my life. A lot of people think it is just fine. I rarely eat out on sunday. When I do it is because I am on vaction and not at home.

[Alan]

For me, the City Creek adventure was probably a mistake. I think the church authorities probably realise that now and I doubt the Church will ever embark on something like this again.

These were sacred funds, and should have been used on the sacred, in my view.