Deseret Industries Cuts Hours Ahead Of Obamacare Implementation

[Darren10]

are you saying that because Blackstrap and I live in Canada we aren't moral according to the teachings of the Church? are we all doomed now?

I'm saying that staying out of debt is the financial and moral standard of the Church. As a system, universal healthcare runs on borrowed money. Every country I've looked into: England, France, Italy, Canada, all increased their national debt in direct response to fund universal healthcare mandates. I make no judgement upon you but if you can show me where I err, I'll be more than welcome to listen to you.

Rocky mountain Healthcare is an internationally recognized healthcare system where everyone is covered and the service is second to none. Their mortality rate with infants last I checked was zero. It's all privately funded including by the LDS Church which has no debt. There's not a single bill that does not get paid (yes, there are exceptions but as a rule my statement is accurate) in large part from private donations helping the poor pay the cost of their healthcare services.

http://www.rmcare.com/

[Darren10]

Yes, of course.

[Duncan]

I'm saying that staying out of debt is the financial and moral standard of the Church. As a system, universal healthcare runs on borrowed money. Every country I've looked into: England, France, Italy, Canada, all increased their national debt in direct response to fund universal healthcare mandates. I make no judgement upon you but if you can show me where I err, I'll be more than welcome to listen to you.

Rocky mountain Healthcare is an internationally recognized healthcare system where everyone is covered and the service is second to none. Their mortality rate with infants last I checked was zero. It's all privately funded including by the LDS Church which has no debt. There's not a single bill that does not get paid (yes, there are exceptions but as a rule my statement is accurate) in large part from private donations helping the poor pay the cost of their healthcare services.

http://www.rmcare.com/

debt levels? are you for kidding me right now?

Canada's debt level as of 2007 was half a trillion

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226212107AA2bgJI

I think it's safe for sure that the US owes MUCH more then that

[Darren10]

Looks like it's time to turn DI into a fully volunteer program similar to the Church cleaning system. Look at all the service hours the youth could accumulate . Nobody would need to be paid and .... wait, I just remembered how much fun it is to get consistent volunteers. Back to the drawing board.

Looks like you got an organization to create.

[Darren10]

debt levels? are you for kidding me right now?

Canada's debt level as of 2007 was half a trillion

http://answers.yahoo...26212107AA2bgJI

I think it's safe for sure that the US owes MUCH more then that

Oh, you'll get no argument from me regarding how much the US owes. It's outrageously bad and way outside LDS financial standards and thus immoral.

But here's more to my point.

In 2006-07, Medicare consumed 19.1 per cent of total federal, provincial and local government revenue. Given that those over 65 years old account for approximately 44 per cent of all health spending, and the fact that the percentage of the population over 65 years old will increase dramatically, the portion of revenue currently used to fund Medicare will not be sufficient to deliver future medical expenses. As such, Medicare's unfunded liability stands at $364 billion.

Adding the unfunded liabilities of the Old Age Security program and Medicare to that of the Canada Pension Plan ($538 billion) puts total Canadian unfunded liabilities at $1.3 trillion.

Further, these unfunded liabilities have increased by more than 20 per cent over the most recent five years for which data are available (2000-2004).

Unfunded liabilities, coupled with the national debt, put Canadians on the hook for liabilities totalling $2.4 trillion or approximately $150,000 per taxpayer.

http://www.canada.co...36-54a3b23be2ce

And just for fun:

http://www.debtclock.ca/

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Check out the unfunded liabilities of the US. All of that is Social Security promises and Medicare and proscription drug coverage.

[tyler90az]

The salaried employees should lose money in proportion to what the non-salaried are. I bet they would figure out another way to make up the difference "Obamacare" will cost. It seems like many companies are still politically jostling over "Obamacare." It is over, done, Obamacare is here to stay. I hope Deseret Industries is not one of those companies.

[BlueDreams]

If it's employees are getting less than 30 hours a week the topic of the OP shouldn't be an issue, as mandatory health coverage doesn't kick in under obamacare unless the employee is working 30 hours a week or more.

They're probably clamping down on policies, where they may have been more flexible previously or had a number of full-time employees who weren't covered or people who'd regularly go over 30 to make an extra buck as well. All church owned businesses are doing it.

At least, from my own jobs on-campus, they're being extra careful so that they stay within the law. For me to work over 30 for the summer (I work under 20 during school) I had to get permission from various HR's and supervisors where once I wouldn't have even asked. Most employees probably fall in the under-30 category already, but a number probably don't as well.

With luv,

BD

[Darren10]

The salaried employees should lose money in proportion to what the non-salaried are. I bet they would figure out another way to make up the difference "Obamacare" will cost. It seems like many companies are still politically jostling over "Obamacare." It is over, done, Obamacare is here to stay. I hope Deseret Industries is not one of those companies.

Much of the jostling is over Obamacare's uncertainty. I do believe they are still writing in the rules and regulations. Perhaps a few thousand pages more of it and ther'll be at least something coherent.

[bluebell]

They're probably clamping down on policies, where they may have been more flexible previously or had a number of full-time employees who weren't covered or people who'd regularly go over 30 to make an extra buck as well. All church owned businesses are doing it.

At least, from my own jobs on-campus, they're being extra careful so that they stay within the law. For me to work over 30 for the summer (I work under 20 during school) I had to get permission from various HR's and supervisors where once I wouldn't have even asked. Most employees probably fall in the under-30 category already, but a number probably don't as well.

With luv,

BD

That makes sense.

My only issue was with TSS's claim that all of DI's employees worked less than 30 hours a week. That statement didn't seem to make sense given the topic of the thread.

[tyler90az]

Much of the jostling is over Obamacare's uncertainty. I do believe they are still writing in the rules and regulations. Perhaps a few thousand pages more of it and ther'll be at least something coherent.

So you admit this is all just political jostling?

[ERayR]

Much of the jostling is over Obamacare's uncertainty. I do believe they are still writing in the rules and regulations. Perhaps a few thousand pages more of it and ther'll be at least something coherent.

Making a silk purse out of a sows ear is rarely successful.

[ERayR]

That makes sense.

My only issue was with TSS's claim that all of DI's employees worked less than 30 hours a week. That statement didn't seem to make sense given the topic of the thread.

There wouldn't be

a problem if they did.

[jwhitlock]

This has been fun reading the posts of all who are self-righteously condemning DI and the church. Evidently they think that support of socialist-style entitlements without regard to any other factors is the highest form of ethics and morality a person can have. On the other hand, this attitude of "I'll save them all that none will be lost" seems to be a bit incompatible with the principles of the gospel.

I seem to remember one of the posters in the past saying that his/her vote always went for the politician that promised the most benefits from the public trough. When asked about the concept of fiscal responsibility that rests upon all citizens, and who would pay for all of this, the answer was that it didn't matter. That would be the politicians problem; entitlements were promised and they better deliver.

Interesting how certain perspectives need to reject notions of common sense in order to be rationalized.

[Calm]

So, more people making minimum wage are getting fewer hours and still no medical benefits, and this is held as a commendable move on the employer's part?

I don't know but it would appear that more money gets into the hands of people as personal income for them to decide what to spend it on rather than a larger percentage having to go to government programs they may not have to take advantage of. If I am right, Wwhether or not it is better for money to go from employer to government for fifty people to take home $100 a week with $25 per person going to the government for potential benefits or money going directly to 75 people at $83 a week without any money going to the government for benefits...I think this is a personal decision.

[Calm]

I suspect that I am in the minority here, but I would prefer that there be a national health policy.

If this is to happen effectively, then there has to be a major overhaul of malpractice insurance and the health insurance agencies. I just don't see it working the way it is currently set up with huge amounts of medical money having to be used on legal issues.

[Calm]

I've heard from a couple of Canadian friends that one of the issues right now is that drs don't make very much money, and so Canada has trouble getting people to become drs, or staying in Canada after they do.

It doesn't seem to matter which country is being discussed, there are always so many interrelated issues with health care costs and coverage, it's no wonder it's so difficult to make any system work well all the time.

We had a friend who was a pediatric neurosurgeon (or so my memory tells me). He said he was operating for free for the last quarter of each year and he couldn't afford for his kids (he had 7 IIRC) to go on missions or go to college. He also lived in very middleclass housing, probably about 1600 sq ft, kids went to public school etc. He moved to the States out of frustration with the system.

And as far as I know he was the only specialist in that field in Calgary at that time.

[Calm]

Now I think they are tightening up on regulations, like you can move to the States but you need to do x amount of time here and there is such a need, especially for rural medicine.

They were doing this when we were there, a friend was going to med school with his school loans paid by the government with the agreement he would work for so many years in a rural area.

[Calm]

As far as public appeals go, we can safely say that there were none.

DI is built on donations:

http://deseretindust...donate?lang=eng

http://www.lds.org/e...encies?lang=eng

Also volunteer work: http://deseretindustries.lds.org/service?lang=eng

Also: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700142439/Mormon-welfare-services-Another-day-another-DI.html?pg=all

LDS Welfare Services fact sheet — 2010

Days of labor donated to church welfare services — 777,381

Employment and training placements — 168,713

Total number of

storehouses — 143

Home storage centers — 102

Production projects — 54

Processing facilities — 23

Storage and distribution facilities — 36

Employment resource centers — 326

Deseret Industries thrift stores — 43

LDS Family Services offices — 79

Number of missionaries serving in LDS Welfare Services — 8,583LDS Welfare Services

fact sheet — 2010

Days of labor donated to church welfare services 777,381

Employment and

training placements168,713

Total number of storehouses143

Home storage centers102

Production projects54

Processing facilities23

Storage and distribution facilities36

Employment resource centers326

Deseret Industries thrift stores43

LDS Family Services offices79

Number of missionaries serving

in LDS Welfare Services8,583

[Calm]

I think that we can also conclude that salaries weren't lowered, it would have been an amazing PR move.

Since it is already operating as part of the LDS Welfare System, I doubt that the salaries of those who are not service missionaries are that high. At least one of the complaints I've heard about those employed by the Church is that the pay isn't all that great.

[Calm]

Salaries are still far higher than minimum wage

CFR please.

[Calm]

The managers of you local DI are not rich, their not paid badly, either. More like upper middle class in my area.

CFR please.

[Calm]

As a training program DI, and any other company, doesn't have to employ those people for 30+ hours per week.

Does anyone here think DI works at a profit for the Church?

[Calm]

Its a business, period.

No, it isn't. It is part of the Church's Welfare System.

[Calm]

They're probably clamping down on policies, where they may have been more flexible previously or had a number of full-time employees who weren't covered or people who'd regularly go over 30 to make an extra buck as well. All church owned businesses are doing it.

At least, from my own jobs on-campus, they're being extra careful so that they stay within the law. For me to work over 30 for the summer (I work under 20 during school) I had to get permission from various HR's and supervisors where once I wouldn't have even asked. Most employees probably fall in the under-30 category already, but a number probably don't as well.

With luv,

BD

Someone actually working in the system with firsthand knowledge, excellent.

[Darren10]

So you admit this is all just political jostling?

Huh? Government comes to regulate businesses based upon law which was passed before the bill it was based upon even existed and 4 years later is still not all written and opposing it is political?