Does The Gospel Message Help With Personality Disorders

[thesometimesaint]

It mostly came to a head 9 years ago. Then came 4 years of DBT, three hours a week. Lots of drugs, and finally I asked for help getting off them. That was not a popular request. They did not want to believe that the drugs made matters worse. Now days, no one knows, thankfully I am away from the abusers, and single. I am a member of the church. No one knows. Once in a while things get hard. You have to learn to set boundaries about what is acceptable. Knowing when you can not participate in a discussion helps. Dissassociation hardly ever happens any more. There are those who love me around me, and it is pretty easy to understand that helping others and serving can do a world of good.

So, Yes Doctor, there are those of us who pick up our things and move on.

Unfortunately all drugs don't work the same in all people. It usually take 3-4 trials to see what drug is best, but some people can take many more trial runs of drugs. I am sorry they didn't work for you. While I'm not allergic to them antihistamines and most analgesics put me to sleep within a few minutes. So I have to be very careful when taking them, or I will overdose.

Sometimes, though obviously not always, flight is the best option.

Take good care of yourself.

[SamIam]

Well, what I was looking for was whether anyone had experiences or had seen any sort of way that a Gospel Influence had helped these kinds of people -- and if so, how did it help them and what was the process?

I can provide specifics based on my experience. Having counseled with them, I like to get an idea of their life and attitudes. If their needs are serious enough I would generally recommend them to LDS Services or one other Psy. that I had developed a relationship with and I respected his technique. He was faithful and recognized the necessity of spirituality for true healing as well as the need to buffer their state of mind with treatment if that was required to stabilize them. Then we both continued to work with the individual. I focused mainly on their spiritual health and growth and sustained his expertise and he worked on the treatment side while sustaining the spiritual council that I worked on – each of us involved in our particular area of expertise sustaining the other.

Never did I initiate anything from my side with the expectation of “exorcising” their demons. On several occasions it was apparent that evil influences were a decided factor in the issue of the individuals suffering. In one instance a delusional character with voices in his head finally succumbed. Even after our last meeting and after I had contacted family, other church leaders, his doctor, the police and anyone else I could contact to warn of what I was sensing, he still shot his wife and killed her. He had gone off his meds but the homicidal thoughts which were a known side effect persisted.

One of the issues with addressing the spiritual needs when one detects significant evil influences is that one cannot simply plot a course of priesthood blessing to cast out the evil influences. Agency is critical and if the person has chosen behaviors that welcome the dark influences success is diminished. If repentance is required and not forthcoming success is diminished.

Neither is it advisable to do more than teach and educate unless they take it upon themselves to seek for priesthood blessings. What I have found is that if it is to be handled with the tools of the priesthood, the opportunity will present itself with the inspiration of what to do and say in the course of a blessing.

By way of example, on one occasion, an individual that had been excommunicated began to suffer from what was supposed was an old boxing injury from a couple of years prior. Within a couple of months of his excommunication he began to suffer from depression, anger issues, frustration etc and finally in short order excruciating head pain He had boxed for Everlast and under their insurance began to see a specialist. He was told something to the effect that the blows to the head had partially torn the hippocampus away from its moorings and it was still connected by some fibrous tissue that would take years and years to heal at a very slow pace if at all. He was cautioned that further damage would potentially result in death. I was told by him that there was nothing they could do to alleviate the pain which was daily and excruciating sometimes completely unbearable. He could only garner 2 to 4 hours of sleep most nights before the pain woke him. He had some self-medication issues etc…

To shorten the story…after a couple of years he married. We began piecing together his spiritual priorities. He and his wife began to make life changes. After 6 years of buffetings we were finally to the point that he was in the process of interviews to rebaptise. On one occasion we invited him to drive down with us to the priesthood session of conference. He agreed and drove to our home 30 minutes away. When he arrived he was overcome with excruciating pain which he stated had rapidly increased during his drive to our home. In spite of strong desires to turn around and go home he continued to our home. He was in tears and asked for a blessing. Of course, as is often the case, I feebly laid my hands on his head thinking to give him a blessing of healing. I was daunted by the obvious suffering but continued. Again thinking to seek relief of his symptoms I proceeded to seal the anointing but found I could not say anything about healing and as I was about to end the blessing the words were clearly placed in my mind that I was to rebuke Satan and command him to depart.

We were in a hurry to get leaving and so I turned away while this young man rather kind of rapidly stood up and went towards another room. I could see that he was seemingly more distressed than ever and of course I had no sense of what was going on inside of him but just figured things weren’t going well and the blessing was not having an immediate positive effect. My mistake.

Apparently, when I had said the final words of the blessing and the rebuke at that very moment the pain in his head which had been 6 years of non-stop torment vanished. He was so surprised and emotionally overcome at the flood of relief that enveloped him that he could not gain his composure right away.

A week and a half later he went to his U of U doctor and they did the test that helps them see the damage to his hippocampus and the doctor was shocked to note that he was completely healed of his affliction. In his subsequent interviews with his stake president he related the healing and upon that event was pronounced ready to be rebaptised which we did 2 weeks later. His attitude, depression, and emotional imbalances have all disappeared. It was obvious to us that this healing was an indicator that his time had come to rejoin the church.

The point of this rehearsal is simply to highlight perceptions of my experiences as a means of illustrating aspects that might point to your request of how the gospel influence helps and aspects of the process.

For the priesthood to work in these situations agency cannot be ignored. If they choose behaviors, even unrelated ones, that are invitations to bad influence the priesthood will most likely not effect a permanent change. I know of exceptions but have no experience in such.

Insight for what to do with the spiritual side of things is generally provided in the moment it is needed.

We cannot overlook the value of pain, affliction, trial and suffering as part of the refining tools of our father in heaven. Anyone I know that is spiritually wealthy can recount the path of trial and affliction and suffering that was part of the refining process and thus a positive blessing to them. So I do not readily think in terms of an obligation to relieve their suffering but I think in terms of how to strengthen them to endure.

Frankly, thus far my experience has been that more often than not they are not to be healed immediately if at all. Some will be healed in the Lords time but others will never be healed. Often this is because they can only have faith in the tools of men and have not the capacity for spiritual means to be effective.

Thus in the case of medical / mental afflictions, generally the professional route is what should be sustained. Anyone who thinks that a life of meds and such is healing is greatly delusioned, however these things can be part of a healing process. Anyone who thinks that medical / mental issues are the exclusive domain of medical professionals and that priesthood holders should defer their efforts because they do not have the right tools are also delusional and should see a psychiatrist for the proper medications to cure a lack of faith and or wisdom.

There is a time for both spiritual and medical approaches and while the weaker solutions of man may be the most prevalently beneficial there is no question in my mind that when appropriate and sanctioned by the spirit the spiritual tools are what should be hoped will be brought to bear in the persistent issues where healing is not effected by weaker tools.

[CASteinman]

I stand corrected. However, I have submitted that comment to a couple experts for another opinion.

I actually did not know if you were incorrect or not -- only that there was an alternative perspective. I was not confident in what I read. I am glad you are having some other experts take a look because it is interesting. They are seemingly a very admirable group of people.

[CASteinman]

I can provide specifics based on my experience.

Although I cannot, right now, see how I can apply this to the situation I have before me, nevertheless this has been, I am convinced, the most useful post I have seen. (Aside from the wonderful testimony!). I really appreciate it very much.

[Robert F. Smith]

I actually did not know if you were incorrect or not -- only that there was an alternative perspective. I was not confident in what I read. I am glad you are having some other experts take a look because it is interesting. They are seemingly a very admirable group of people.

I have heard that Mormon missionaries are afraid of them. Not sure why, but it may have to do with the powerful testimonies of the Hutterites and their scriptural knowledge. They are very successful and very tight-knit.

[CV75]

Well, what I was looking for was whether anyone had experiences or had seen any sort of way that a Gospel Influence had helped these kinds of people -- and if so, how did it help them and what was the process?

I think the addiction recovery classes offer a good approach to applyig the atonement to one's problems. I thoguht the Ensign article I linked was a helpful way for drawing people into the light. I think it is helpful to not only consider what the "types of people" need in general (which is merely a starting point) but their individual needs. As I meniotned earlier, discernment and inspiration are very helpful in helping others.

[CASteinman]

I have heard that Mormon missionaries are afraid of them. Not sure why, but it may have to do with the powerful testimonies of the Hutterites and their scriptural knowledge. They are very successful and very tight-knit.

They are very successful. Still, I wouldn't be afraid of them.

[CASteinman]

I think the addiction recovery classes offer a good approach to applyig the atonement to one's problems. I thoguht the Ensign article I linked was a helpful way for drawing people into the light. I think it is helpful to not only consider what the "types of people" need in general (which is merely a starting point) but their individual needs. As I meniotned earlier, discernment and inspiration are very helpful in helping others.

I am sorry. I did not mean to short-change your contribution. Although I have observed PD's in Church members in the past few decades, the individual I am currently concerned about is not LDS. And as I mentioned, these people will not seek help or treatment most of the time.

I am trying to find out if someone has observed Gospel Principles in action that would be effective with these people. Loving them certainly would -- if they were paying attention or believed or accepted it or cared. But that really is the problem. Most of the time their ability to care if you love them or accept that you love them is substantially diminished -- or erratic.

I have a goal that I have set, to have this individual become somewhat more self aware and thus self correcting -- or if that fails, to have them be faster to experience remorse and make amends (something that they actually have never done). I am constrained in doing this by not being able to be directly confrontational or discussing the issue directly because it would lead to very bad unpredictable actions. And there are other issues as well. BUT, I am helped by the fact that this individual believes in Christ and has a no-kidding serious desire to be (or at least thought of as) a good person. The Bible is important to this person.

My approach right now is to be very positive, very upbeat. Positive Reinforcement with praise when good things are seen. No negative statements, ever. And once or twice a week discuss Bible concepts or spiritual concepts in a manner that may hopefully shed light into the mind and spirit of this person so that some of the more egregious behaviors might be examined and regretted -- leading to repentance.

I will also be talking to a professional at some point to get some advice. But I wanted to see if anyone here had any experiences with the Gospel having a positive effect on people with PD. In addition to hoping to get insights on how to proceed in this one instance, I also thought it was an overall interesting question about how people might have seen it help.

[Robert F. Smith]

I actually did not know if you were incorrect or not -- only that there was an alternative perspective. I was not confident in what I read. I am glad you are having some other experts take a look because it is interesting. They are seemingly a very admirable group of people.

One of my colleagues responded as follows (referring to a page in that article you cited):

Behold, thus echoed Zarathustra ...

unh, no;

thus echoed an anthropologist

with some psych training

and hospital experience:

“...efforts to deal with this problem of valid

cross-group [aka cross-cultural] comparison

yielded a strategy so complex that it is

reminiscent of a Rube Goldberg” p. 433

... what more can we say ...

... than to you we have said ...

... you who unto Sigmund, /et al/., ...

... for understanding have fled ...

[canard78]

I think the most important thing the Gospel can do for people who struggle with these disorders is provide a loving community environment where the person can serve and be served. Community/family can provide spiritual and emotional support to a person suffering with mental health issues.

I have seen a couple of examples of people getting better with the help of the Church and the Gospel. HOWEVER -- and this is a big however -- progress was only made when these people obtained professional medical help. Meds and/or counseling. Just like the Gospel alone can't cure cancer, it can't cure a mental illness. However, just as with cancer, the Gospel can help bring comfort and spiritual perspectives during the treatment of a difficult disease.

Seth

For this and the next post, thank you.

The sooner people realise that treating someone with most mental illnesses with gospel principles is like trying to do the same to someone with a broken leg.

While there are apparently some people miraculously cured (in and out of the church), medical professionals are the best treatment for any illness. I think Brigham Young said the same.

I also really appreciated your point that the benefit of the gospel should be in the service and community the sick person can receive while being professionally treated.

I'm on my phone so can't give a rep point. But consider yourself 'repped'

[wenglund]

The sooner people realise that treating someone with most mental illnesses with gospel principles is like trying to do the same to someone with a broken leg.

I am sorry, but this is a remarkably naive comparison. The mind, particularly the emotional component, is so much more complex than the leg bone, and so much more malleable and influenced by a broad range of internal and external stimuli, that the very thought of such a banal comparison must have originated in the leg bone (likely being pulled) rather than the mind.

If you doubt this, research how many legs are broken, as opposed to moods dampened, simply by the diminished amount of daylight during certain seasons and in certain geographic locations.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 11, 2013 by wenglund

[Calm]

One of my colleagues responded as follows (referring to a page in that article you cited):

Behold, thus echoed Zarathustra ...

unh, no;

thus echoed an anthropologist

with some psych training

and hospital experience:

“...efforts to deal with this problem of valid

cross-group [aka cross-cultural] comparison

yielded a strategy so complex that it is

reminiscent of a Rube Goldberg” p. 433

... what more can we say ...

... than to you we have said ...

... you who unto Sigmund, /et al/., ...

... for understanding have fled ...

A friend to cultivate....

[EllenMaksoud]

I am sorry, but this is a remarkably naive comparison. The mind, particularly the emotional component, is so much more complex than the leg bone, and so much more malleable and influenced by a broad range of internal and external stimuli, that the very thought of such a banal comparison must have originated in the leg bone (likely being pulled) rather than the mind.

If you doubt this, research how many legs are broken, as opposed to moods dampened, simply by the diminished amount of daylight during certain seasons and in certain geographic locations.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I don't think there is ONE solution to any of these issues. Dealing with mental health is in my mind a life long project. Many of these people can live out nearly their whole lives, holding down a job, being faithful in marriage and live seemingly strong spiritual lives. Some of these folk, suddenly just crash one day after doing all that. I don't think there is a universal solution. People like this can sometimes have dozens of people around them who witness their astonishing healing and increasing faithfulness to Heavenly Father, while sometimes the professionals just rain on their parade. The victim of a crime only commits a crime when they make no effort to recover from the trauma. The perpetrator only wins if you let them.

[SamIam]

I am sorry, but this is a remarkably naive comparison. The mind, particularly the emotional component, is so much more complex than the leg bone, and so much more malleable and influenced by a broad range of internal and external stimuli, that the very thought of such a banal comparison must have originated in the leg bone (likely being pulled) rather than the mind.

If you doubt this, research how many legs are broken, as opposed to moods dampened, simply by the diminished amount of daylight during certain seasons and in certain geographic locations.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Ah Wade, I haven't participated much here for quite sometime but if there is anything I find refreshing in my recent days of participation it is your wonderful wit and clever turn of phrase. Brilliant.

[wenglund]

I don't think there is ONE solution to any of these issues.

Agreed. As I said, the mind/emotion is very complex system, and thus does not lend itself to single or simple solutions. There isn't anything comparable to an antibiotic or a leg splint that can heal all mental illnesses, let alone personality disorders.

Dealing with mental health is in my mind a life long project. Many of these people can live out nearly their whole lives, holding down a job, being faithful in marriage and live seemingly strong spiritual lives. Some of these folk, suddenly just crash one day after doing all that. I don't think there is a universal solution. People like this can sometimes have dozens of people around them who witness their astonishing healing and increasing faithfulness to Heavenly Father, while sometimes the professionals just rain on their parade. The victim of a crime only commits a crime when they make no effort to recover from the trauma. The perpetrator only wins if you let them.

Well said.

By chance have you heard of Cognative Behavior Therapy--particularly material that deals specifically with Personality Disorders, such as Dialectical Behavior Therapy? There is solid evidence that these programs can be effective in treatment of the disorder. If interested, check out some of these material:

CBT Workbook for Personality Disorders

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

http://www.goodtherapy.org/Dialectical-Behavioral-Therapy.html

Cognative Therapy for Personality Disorders

here are some related videos:

Hope this helps.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Ah Wade, I haven't participated much here for quite sometime but if there is anything I find refreshing in my recent days of participation it is your wonderful wit and clever turn of phrase. Brilliant.

You are too kind. Unfortunate for me, the moderators and some of the participants here find me less than funny and more repelling than brilliant. I am pleased to learn that I am not the only one chuckling about what I unseriously write.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[EllenMaksoud]

Agreed. As I said, the mind/emotion is very complex system, and thus does not lend itself to single or simple solutions. There isn't anything comparable to an antibiotic or a leg splint that can heal all mental illnesses, let alone personality disorders.

Well said.

By chance have you heard of Cognative Behavior Therapy--particularly material that deals specifically with Personality Disorders, such as Dialectical Behavior Therapy? There is solid evidence that these programs can be effective in treatment of the disorder. If interested, check out some of these material:

CBT Workbook for Personality Disorders

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

http://www.goodthera...al-Therapy.html

Cognative Therapy for Personality Disorders

here are some related videos:

[media=]

Hope this helps.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Thank you. I will look at your links though probably not all tonight. Is the woman in one of the video's Marcia Lindeman? At least I think that is her name. My internet connection is really awful, so I can't just fly around with two screens running the way I like to. I was in the Dialectic Behavior Program at the VA for four years. They apparently decided my experiences prior to my military service were sufficient to give me PTSD, and Borderline Personality Disorder. I think both happen in degrees and mine was relatively minor in comparison to what some experienced. DBT got some bad press, but I think those who stay with it will develop significant tools to cope with life. The groups need skilled operators to run them, and most frequently there are two practitioners because it is too much for one. That helped a great deal in life. And I want to say that I did a great deal right in life in spite of all this until, one day after 9/11 and seeing the frightening things that were happening around me, I just hit the wall. People may think that we in the US have lost a lot of our freedoms but it is nothing compared with what some tried to do. At the time, I worked for a city, and had intimate contact with employees at the city, county, state and federal level. The next big miracle happened when I got involved with Sister Missionaries in Kirtland. The nurturing and scripture exposure were key. Then upon baptisim, something happened that defies explanation. I was healed of hate, anger and bitterness that I had carried since I was young. I well knew that I would not go to heaven if I did not forgive them. The Lord's prayer lays that out unavoidably. All this healing is a combination of things, all having their place. Edited April 11, 2013 by EllenMaksoud

[wenglund]

Thank you. I will look at your links though probably not all tonight. Is the woman in one of the video's Marcia Lindeman?

Yes, Marsha M. Linehan, the creator of Dialectic Behavior Therapy, is pictured and featured in the second video. Amazing Woman!

At least I think that is her name. My internet connection is really awful, so I can't just fly around with two screens running the way I like to. I was in the Dialectic Behavior Program at the VA for four years. They apparently decided my experiences prior to my military service were sufficient to give me PTSD, and Borderline Personality Disorder. I think both happen in degrees and mine was relatively minor in comparison to what some experienced. DBT got some bad press, but I think those who stay with it will develop significant tools to cope with life. The groups need skilled operators to run them, and most frequently there are two practitioners because it is too much for one. That helped a great deal in life.

You will probably be able to relate to some of the patients highlighted in the second video. Feel free to watch iy whenever it is convenient and feasible. Given your background, the material I suggested isn't mission critical. Perhaps it will be for CAStienman.

And I want to say that I did a great deal right in life in spite of all this until, one day after 9/11 and seeing the frightening things that were happening around me, I just hit the wall. People may think that we in the US have lost a lot of our freedoms but it is nothing compared with what some tried to do. At the time, I worked for a city, and had intimate contact with employees at the city, county, state and federal level. The next big miracle happened when I got involved with Sister Missionaries in Kirtland. The nurturing and scripture exposure were key. Then upon baptism, something happened that defies explanation. I was healed of hate, anger and bitterness that I had carried since I was young. I well knew that I would not go to heaven if I did not forgive them. The Lord's prayer lays that out unavoidably. All this healing is a combination of things, all having their place.

Wonderful!! Sounds like you are headed in the right direction and well on your way. I appreciate you sharing this with us. And, perhaps when you are ready, you may prove to be a useful resource for others in the early stages of mental/emotional struggles.

I am about 12 years past recovering from a 15 year bout of deep depression, and I try at every chance to give hope to those looking for a light at the end of he tunnel. While I already had the advantages of the gospel of love and salvation, I wish I had also known about CBT earlier in my depression. However, as I am want to do, I had to figure much of it out on my own, which explains why it took so long. But, at least I made it. And, if I can, others can too.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 11, 2013 by wenglund

[thewildbunch]

If you have ever seen narcissistic rage, it is remarkable. The persons countenance changes to almost wolf like demonic. It is like seeing a person who is seething, but also has terror in their eyes. If you want to see an example google "no wire hangers". I have seen it twice in my life. Once was a former companion who if I gave any more info about him you might be able to deduce who he is. A girl dumped him and his ego was destroyed. I was really worried about him. I thought at the time that it was a scary , strange reaction to being dumped!! Another was a semi famous person who I worked for. He had the same look in his eyes as my companion when he joked about shooting us in a staff meeting. Anger and Terror and a countenace change.

NPDs like to impress people with vocabulary and will lie , even if it is easier to tell the truth. They do not care about you , the only care that you are impressed by them. If your fish was 6 inches their fish was a foot. They have done it all before you did and they did it better. These two people were some of the weirdest, most difficult people to get along with. One is a ... never mind, I have said too much. Both are public figures, kind of. They are both the masters of altiloquence. Both suck as human beings. They both have these weird affects to their voices that try to convey intellegence but sound pompus to normal people. I am glad I do not deal with either any more. Any other stories of narcissistic rage out there? Lots of anti Mormons seem to me to have these problems.

[EllenMaksoud]

Yes, Marsha M. Linehan, the creator of Dialectic Behavior Therapy, is pictured and featured in the second video. Amazing Woman!

You will probably be able to relate to some of the patients highlighted in the second video. Feel free to watch iy whenever it is convenient and feasible. Given your background, the material I suggested isn't mission critical. Perhaps it will be for CAStienman.

Wonderful!! Sounds like you are headed in the right direction and well on your way. I appreciate you sharing this with us. And, perhaps when you are ready, you may prove to be a useful resource for others in the early stages of mental/emotional struggles.

I am about 12 years past recovering from a 15 year bout of deep depression, and I try at every chance to give hope to those looking for a light at the end of he tunnel. While I already had the advantages of the gospel of love and salvation, I wish I had also known about CBT earlier in my depression. However, as I am want to do, I had to figure much of it out on my own, which explains why it took so long. But, at least I made it. And, if I can, others can too.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

And thanks to the Moderators who permitted a discussion of this nature.

[EllenMaksoud]

If you have ever seen narcissistic rage, it is remarkable. The persons countenance changes to almost wolf like demonic. It is like seeing a person who is seething, but also has terror in their eyes. If you want to see an example google "no wire hangers". I have seen it twice in my life. Once was a former companion who if I gave any more info about him you might be able to deduce who he is. A girl dumped him and his ego was destroyed. I was really worried about him. I thought at the time that it was a scary , strange reaction to being dumped!! Another was a semi famous person who I worked for. He had the same look in his eyes as my companion when he joked about shooting us in a staff meeting. Anger and Terror and a countenace change.

NPDs like to impress people with vocabulary and will lie , even if it is easier to tell the truth. They do not care about you , the only care that you are impressed by them. If your fish was 6 inches their fish was a foot. They have done it all before you did and they did it better. These two people were some of the weirdest, most difficult people to get along with. One is a ... never mind, I have said too much. Both are public figures, kind of. They are both the masters of altiloquence. Both suck as human beings. They both have these weird affects to their voices that try to convey intellegence but sound pompus to normal people. I am glad I do not deal with either any more. Any other stories of narcissistic rage out there? Lots of anti Mormons seem to me to have these problems.

Oh, I thought that one ups manship was simply a male trait. When I was working, I was around a lot of construction guys that were full of machismo! At lunch I would hear them discussing their latest fishing, or hunting trip, or worse yet who had the best Truck ! LOL When I laughed at them, they got mad and decided that a mere woman had no business eating lunch with the "MEN". Thank you for bringing this up. It is humorous now, many years later.

[CASteinman]

I am sorry, but this is a remarkably naive comparison.

We have to learn to use faith in this life -- and I am not sure ANY of us do a good job of it. BUT... an interesting point that someone made to me recently was this:

The Placebo Effect is scientific proof that the mind and/or spirit can have a powerful effect on our health. Here for example is a quote on a cancer website: "Even though placebos are not active medicines, they seem to have an effect in about 1 out of 3 patients".

I believe, whatever degree I may suffer or be unhappy -- it is very substantially a result of my thoughts and attitude.

[thesometimesaint]

Any drug that can't pass placebo rates shouldn't be on the market.

[Glenn101]

If you have ever seen narcissistic rage, it is remarkable. The persons countenance changes to almost wolf like demonic. It is like seeing a person who is seething, but also has terror in their eyes. If you want to see an example google "no wire hangers". I have seen it twice in my life. Once was a former companion who if I gave any more info about him you might be able to deduce who he is. A girl dumped him and his ego was destroyed. I was really worried about him. I thought at the time that it was a scary , strange reaction to being dumped!! Another was a semi famous person who I worked for. He had the same look in his eyes as my companion when he joked about shooting us in a staff meeting. Anger and Terror and a countenace change.

NPDs like to impress people with vocabulary and will lie , even if it is easier to tell the truth. They do not care about you , the only care that you are impressed by them. If your fish was 6 inches their fish was a foot. They have done it all before you did and they did it better. These two people were some of the weirdest, most difficult people to get along with. One is a ... never mind, I have said too much. Both are public figures, kind of. They are both the masters of altiloquence. Both suck as human beings. They both have these weird affects to their voices that try to convey intellegence but sound pompus to normal people. I am glad I do not deal with either any more. Any other stories of narcissistic rage out there? Lots of anti Mormons seem to me to have these problems.

This sounds like characters from Dilbert. Maybe I shouldn't laugh at them any more????

Glenn

[CV75]

I am sorry. I did not mean to short-change your contribution.

No apology necessary; I don't feel short-changed.

I think the Gospel helps us see people not as types but as children of God, and from there we can best help others. To borrow a phrase from Elder Holland’s recent General Conference talk, just as we lead with the faith that we have (and not with our doubts), leading with the commonality we have and not with our differences is a good starting point.

Where there is significant enmity, this is certainly difficult, but we can still follow the injunction to “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” How much relational danger one can manage has to do with not running faster than he has strength.

The Gospel message is not primarily one of us fixing others, but of fixing ourselves in Christ, and not of controlling what others do, but mastering how we respond to what they do and how we influence them. This sets up the best dynamic for one to lift another to a higher plane.

I have had experience with one individual (that I know of) with a diagnosed personality disorder, and have found the above principles to help the situation. By all means, a professional can help with the particular situation and behaviors you are experiencing with this person.