Does The Gospel Message Help With Personality Disorders

[thesometimesaint]

If you pinch your nose while singing it. I can hear it now.

[CASteinman]

It sometimes frightens me when I run into priesthood holders that assume that trouble comes because of willful disobedience.

It bothered Job that some of his friends thought that.

[sethpayne]

Except, perhaps, when some really are demon-possessed. Having experienced people who were demon-possessed and seeing the night and day change in their personalities after casting their demons out, I know better. But, I would say that in many cases that some would be quick to state that they are cases of demon possession it just is mental illness from chemical imbalances and not demon possession. Each one of these situations has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. In genuine cases of demon possession the feelings in the air around and radiating from the person are unmistakable. In my opinion, Satan can just as easily manipulate someone's biochemistry and set it out of balance to accomplish his ends without actually taking full possession of one's physical body. In situations like that medicines can help mask the symptoms but not eliminate the cause. In yet other cases, no medicine at all will help some of these situations. In these cases only a blessing and/or direct intervention in casting them out works. I could tell true stories about some of this stuff that could make your hair stand on end. No one ever will convince me that Satan does not exist. I know better.

Hi MM,

I see where you are coming from and, on my mission among Native Americans, I saw a lot of folks who believed demons/curses were causing them to be ill etc... Now, whether they really were cursed or whether this was a product of their culture where demons and curses were considered fairly commonplace I don't know. I lean towards the cultural explanation simply because this was a phenomenon restricted to the reservation.

So, when my companion and I received calls to cast out demons we would, of course, go and give a blessing. In every case we always encouraged them to continue (or start) to seek medical help. For those who requested that we bless homes or cast out demons, the act of giving a blessing etc.. certainly made them feel better and more at peace. I suppose that even in cases where one may believe they are possessed -- or perhaps they really are -- professional medical help must be sought.

I suppose that generally, a medical doctor should not bring metaphysics into their practice. Let a person's Bishop worry about that.

Doctors have a medical responsibility, not a pastoral one.

Seth

[MormonMason]

Whatever Satan's power is he doesn't have the power to change the physical universe. Including the one between our ears.

Having seen and experienced Satan's abilities myself, I respectfully disagree. See also the Book of Job and Book of Matthew. In addition, someone I know had winds follow him into his home after he had told Satan to leave him alone and that he could not wait to receive the priesthood so he could cast him out wherever he could find him. As soon as he said that, winds began blowing around and around him. When he entered into his home these followed him into the house and continued--inside the house with doors and windows closed--until he prayed that the Lord would protect him and remove Satan from his midst. There was immediate calm and all winds inside the home stopped. This person is known to me to be very credible and I believe every word because of the things I myself have experienced.

Finally, consider what Moses experienced when Satan confronted him. When the Adversary ranted upon the earth, the entire ground around Moses shook. He can very much alter his surroundings in even the physical world, even if only briefly. It is also one of his means of leading to temptation. He can alter the chemical balance in the body to prompt lustful thoughts. I have no doubt that he can do far more than just that, if permitted by God to do so.

[MormonMason]

Hi MM,

I see where you are coming from and, on my mission among Native Americans, I saw a lot of folks who believed demons/curses were causing them to be ill etc... Now, whether they really were cursed or whether this was a product of their culture where demons and curses were considered fairly commonplace I don't know. I lean towards the cultural explanation simply because this was a phenomenon restricted to the reservation.

So, when my companion and I received calls to cast out demons we would, of course, go and give a blessing. In every case we always encouraged them to continue (or start) to seek medical help. For those who requested that we bless homes or cast out demons, the act of giving a blessing etc.. certainly made them feel better and more at peace. I suppose that even in cases where one may believe they are possessed -- or perhaps they really are -- professional medical help must be sought.

I suppose that generally, a medical doctor should not bring metaphysics into their practice. Let a person's Bishop worry about that.

Doctors have a medical responsibility, not a pastoral one.

Seth

There is an unmistakable feeling that accompanies possessions, if you are attuned to such things. Had I been in that situation (and I have been in situations like that, even with a member of my family) I would have tried to sense the feelings in the air and radiating from the person who was believed to have been possessed. If in doubt I then would have asked the Father if such were the case before proceeding.

As to medical versus pastoral, sometimes in the field of psychiatry it bridges between both at times. Think about it enough and I believe you also will see this.

[MormonMason]

Our experiences sound similar in this type of scenario. I believe that there are rules to out and out possession as in the cases I have noted it was proceeded by welcoming behaviors. I have noted that the priesthood always has worked to remedy the immediate situation but if repentance or other changes were not forthcoming then re-possession was a possibility.

I wonder if generally the influences that lead to biochemistry problems most generally are limited to encouraging bad health choices over sufficient period of time so as to slowly bind individuals to those influences.

I also have noted that sometimes they occur in our particular lives as a means of opportunity to educate a priesthood holder how to provide and protect in spiritual fashion just as we do in temporal fashion.

I have contemplated the Knight family situation, often called the first miracle in the church, where the son (Joseph Knight ??) was overtaken simply on the principle that he didn't follow through on a commitment to pray in their meeting. I have thought that perhaps this was really more of a situation to teach Joseph about such matters and introduce him to the principles of priesthood authority.

I agree and have seen the same. Even with one of my own family I have seen this. But, in some cases, in my opinion, it definitely is just mental illness. As I have written above, there is an unmistakable feeling in the air and radiating from a person who is possessed. There is a similar feeling in those with mental illness that is particularly bad, but it is different in subtle ways. It takes experience and the gift of discernment to know the difference.

[sethpayne]

There is an unmistakable feeling that accompanies possessions, if you are attuned to such things. Had I been in that situation (and I have been in situations like that, even with a member of my family) I would have tried to sense the feelings in the air and radiating from the person who was believed to have been possessed. If in doubt I then would have asked the Father if such were the case before proceeding.

I certainly will claim no expertise in demons, let alone demons that influence or torment living folks. I have, however, seen what I consider to be miracles, FWIW. I don't want you take me for a complete cynic.

As to medical versus pastoral, sometimes in the field of psychiatry it bridges between both at times. Think about it enough and I believe you also will see this.

Well, I think that perhaps a psychotherapist could act in a pastoral role. Indeed, they often do even if religion or God is not invoked explicitly. I have a therapist friend who says she will try to utilize a person's religions beliefs to help people get better. They seek to heal the soul and bring peace. This is a pastoral function.

Edited April 13, 2013 by sethpayne

[thesometimesaint]

Having seen and experienced Satan's abilities myself, I respectfully disagree. See also the Book of Job and Book of Matthew. In addition, someone I know had winds follow him into his home after he had told Satan to leave him alone and that he could not wait to receive the priesthood so he could cast him out wherever he could find him. As soon as he said that, winds began blowing around and around him. When he entered into his home these followed him into the house and continued--inside the house with doors and windows closed--until he prayed that the Lord would protect him and remove Satan from his midst. There was immediate calm and all winds inside the home stopped. This person is known to me to be very credible and I believe every word because of the things I myself have experienced.

Finally, consider what Moses experienced when Satan confronted him. When the Adversary ranted upon the earth, the entire ground around Moses shook. He can very much alter his surroundings in even the physical world, even if only briefly. It is also one of his means of leading to temptation. He can alter the chemical balance in the body to prompt lustful thoughts. I have no doubt that he can do far more than just that, if permitted by God to do so.

Think about the implications of what you are posting. If Satan can alter the brain chemistry temporarily of even one person there is nothing stopping him for altering everyone's brain chemistry permanently. If he can change the physical universe in any sense we'd all be dead.

[EllenMaksoud]

Think about the implications of what you are posting. If Satan can alter the brain chemistry temporarily of even one person there is nothing stopping him for altering everyone's brain chemistry permanently. If he can change the physical universe in any sense we'd all be dead.

I don't think what he is positing is far fetched at all, owing to my own experience. In 2004, life was comfortable in a middle class house, all the children grown and married, deeply involved in the "International Four Square Church of the Gospel", had a cushy little job working for a city, well liked, though others knew me to be irrascible if pushed, they easily accepted that what I was doing was potientially very dangerous and were more understanding than I deserved.

Skip ahead to just a few days before christmas, and suddenly it was all gone. Accused of adulterous sin, of being gay, of being dangerous, all of it was gone in less than a week. The accusations were not true.

Add 7 to 2004 and you have 2011. March 13, 2011 is the day that Heavenly Father once again began to deal with me in a way that felt as if he were not really fried out with me. In 2005-2007, I can remember being heartbroken, utterly despondent, utterly a failure. Weeping during the day, weeping at bed time, wakening in the middle of the night weeping, getting up in the early morning hours weeping; apologising to God for my weakness, complaining that I could never be as strong as Job, being approached by those who were like Job's "Friends".

Rejected by everyone, including many Muslims, it did not seem posible that there was any course in life left but at the bottom of a bridge abutment. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as been utterly kind, sweet and healing toward me. It mystifies me how other investigators could walk away in anger and frustration, rejecting the message of the gospel. There is noting wrong with the message of the church. People just need to give themselves completely to Heavenly Father.

[MormonMason]

Think about the implications of what you are posting. If Satan can alter the brain chemistry temporarily of even one person there is nothing stopping him for altering everyone's brain chemistry permanently. If he can change the physical universe in any sense we'd all be dead.

The implications of what I am posting are spot on with what the scriptures teach as well as with what we now know about emotions and biochemical stimuli in the body. Satan has no desire to kill us all. If he did that he would lose so many souls, and would himself be responsible for many more being saved than damned, and he knows it. He would rather tempt us, whisper ideas into our minds, and stimulate us to do wrong. That way he can win us over to him and destroy us spiritually, and sometimes physically (if permitted by God to do so), in that state.

However, it is we who often permanently alter our own brain chemistries by what we do--sometimes truly permanently. What we do that becomes habit alters our very brain morphology, if done long enough, to make us prone to repeating the behavior and make the offending acts more difficult if not impossible, in some cases, to stop. The Adversary of our souls wields a lot of power (over the elements and otherwise). He knows the human body inside and out.

The fact is, when he takes possession of a body he uses biochemical stimuli to make the body do what he wants it to do. Every function in the human body is biochemical and can be triggered biochemically and/or electrically (which then itself creates a cascade biochemical response to the stimulus and/or disrupts the biochemical response). Memories are triggered biochemically. Emotions such as hatred and acts of lust can be biochemically triggered in the human body.

If what holds true in studies of fruit flies turns out to hold true with humans as well, it would seem that same sex attraction and homosexual acts themselves can be switched on and off biochemically in those susceptible to such via pre-existing, genetic deformity, or otherwise. I see no real reason why it won't hold true since we and fruit flies share many of the same genes and gene functions (which is why they are studied as they are). It is true, however, that the acts will alter brain morphology, further ingraining such behaviors. We now know that what we do has the potential to alter the very shape and composition of our brains in a number of circumstances.

Edited April 13, 2013 by MormonMason

[SamIam]

Think about the implications of what you are posting. If Satan can alter the brain chemistry temporarily of even one person there is nothing stopping him for altering everyone's brain chemistry permanently. If he can change the physical universe in any sense we'd all be dead.

As Both MM and I have stated, both from experience, Satan is bound by rules. Were he not bound the situation you describe above could probably be aniliation. Reread the first 2 chapters of Job. Pay particular attention to the "hedge" that God protects his servants with. Pay particualr attention to the degree of influence Satan has over the elements, the body, the minds of men, etc when the hedge is removed.

1.) Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants

2.) The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them

3.) The ^aChaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the

4.) And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men,

5.) smote Job with ^asore ^bboils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

We should all be grateful for the hedge of protection that God affords us. However, we can remove the hedge ourselves if we choose and there are times the Lord permits it to be removed for instruction and education of his children. Those who believe the words of the scriptures will find these things instructive.

Edited April 13, 2013 by SamIam

[thesometimesaint]

The implications of what I am posting are spot on with what the scriptures teach as well as with what we now know about emotions and biochemical stimuli in the body. Satan has no desire to kill us all. If he did that he would lose so many souls, and would himself be responsible for many more being saved than damned, and he knows it. He would rather tempt us, whisper ideas into our minds, and stimulate us to do wrong. That way he can win us over to him and destroy us spiritually, and sometimes physically (if permitted by God to do so), in that state.

However, it is we who often permanently alter our own brain chemistries by what we do--sometimes truly permanently. What we do that becomes habit alters our very brain morphology, if done long enough, to make us prone to repeating the behavior and make the offending acts more difficult if not impossible, in some cases, to stop. The Adversary of our souls wields a lot of power (over the elements and otherwise). He knows the human body inside and out.

The fact is, when he takes possession of a body he uses biochemical stimuli to make the body do what he wants it to do. Every function in the human body is biochemical and can be triggered biochemically and/or electrically (which then itself creates a cascade biochemical response to the stimulus and/or disrupts the biochemical response). Memories are triggered biochemically. Emotions such as hatred and acts of lust can be biochemically triggered in the human body.

If Satan can change our brain chemistry he can do more than just kill us. We'd become his puppets. I didn't say he didn't tempt us. He is very good at that. But that doesn't change anything in our brain chemistry, at least no more than anyone else whispering sweet nothings into our ears. In fact a whole lot less as he has no physical body to vibrate the air to what we interpret as spoken words.

The question is not if we can alter our brain chemistry. We do that all the time. Anytime we eat anything that alters our brain chemistry. Drink water and that alters our brain chemistry. Chocolate producing a very pleasing alteration of our brain chemistry.

The questions is does Satan have the ability to alter the physical universe, including the one between our ears? He has no physical body, no physical presence that can alter it in any way other than by our own choice. We become his agents when we give heed to his temptations. The mentally ill and the mentally disabled are not pawns/products of Satan's doing.

Any behavior will be repeated if rewarded. It can be a primary reward. IE; food, pleasurable physical contact; or a secondary reward IE; money, praise. Of course there are other examples of both. IE; Negative attention is better than no attention at all. Moreover Punishment can extinguish bad behaviors, but it can never instill good behaviors. For that you need a primary or secondary reward.

EVERYTHING we physically are is bio-chemistry. Satan has no power to alter it in anyway other than by what we choose.

[MormonMason]

The answer to the question as to whether Satan has power to alter the elements of the physical universe (at least here on earth) is a yes answer. Paul and Job both agree that such is the case. In the Book of Job, Job's biochemistry is altered to produce his horrid physical condition. In Job, the elements are affected so as to cause great harm to members of Job's family and belongings.

Paul states that a messenger of Satan was afflicting him in some way he does not describe fully. He had asked the Lord three times to remove it from him but the Lord refused each time. But, he calls his "thorn in the flesh" a messenger of Satan. Whatever it was, it was affecting his physical body. Paul also refers to the Adversary as the "prince over the power of the air" and with good reason. He was aware of what he did in the Book of Job.

As to your puppet question, those who truly are possessed by evil spirits are puppets to the spirit that possesses them.

So they brought the boy to him. When the spirit saw him, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell on the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.

(Mark 9:20, NET)

Convulsions are caused by a neurochemical trigger in the brain, or as you put it, the place between the ears. If a spirit can produce convulsions by affecting the brain, it is certain that they can do other things to the biochemistry of the body to effect their whim upon it, so long as God permits for his purposes. In Luke 9:39 the spirit that afflicts the person also causes severe bruising (I am going by the Greek here not the KJV).

As to spirits not being able to affect the material world, you should know better than to object on such grounds. Both Jehovah and Michael were but spirits when they effected the creation of the physical world at the command of Elohim.

[thesometimesaint]

I have no problem with God. However when man tells me God did "X" it takes a bit more evidence than mere Prooftexting from non science literature.

[Jersey Girl]

The answer to the question as to whether Satan has power to alter the elements of the physical universe (at least here on earth) is a yes answer. Paul and Job both agree that such is the case. In the Book of Job, Job's biochemistry is altered to produce his horrid physical condition. In Job, the elements are affected so as to cause great harm to members of Job's family and belongings.

Paul states that a messenger of Satan was afflicting him in some way he does not describe fully. He had asked the Lord three times to remove it from him but the Lord refused each time. But, he calls his "thorn in the flesh" a messenger of Satan. Whatever it was, it was affecting his physical body. Paul also refers to the Adversary as the "prince over the power of the air" and with good reason. He was aware of what he did in the Book of Job.

As to your puppet question, those who truly are possessed by evil spirits are puppets to the spirit that possesses them.

Convulsions are caused by a neurochemical trigger in the brain, or as you put it, the place between the ears. If a spirit can produce convulsions by affecting the brain, it is certain that they can do other things to the biochemistry of the body to effect their whim upon it, so long as God permits for his purposes. In Luke 9:39 the spirit that afflicts the person also causes severe bruising (I am going by the Greek here not the KJV).

As to spirits not being able to affect the material world, you should know better than to object on such grounds. Both Jehovah and Michael were but spirits when they effected the creation of the physical world at the command of Elohim.

MormonMason, I want to know more about this. I will tell you that I am not LDS. Given what you've stated in the above regarding your belief that Satan has power to alter physical elements, do you also believe that Satan has the power to do such things as bring about earth quakes, tornadoes and such as that? Do you believe that Heavenly Father also has that power?

[Nathair/|\]

[MormonMason]

MormonMason, I want to know more about this. I will tell you that I am not LDS. Given what you've stated in the above regarding your belief that Satan has power to alter physical elements, do you also believe that Satan has the power to do such things as bring about earth quakes, tornadoes and such as that? Do you believe that Heavenly Father also has that power?

Our heavenly Father has all power in heaven and on earth. He can trigger earthquakes and bring various other calamities that come to man. He can move even entire planets from their place to another place. Does he do it all the time? No, I do not believe so. Sometimes, things just happen as a result of the way the earth is set up in its present state. But, using just the laws of physics and various higher physical laws we yet know nothing of he can cause seismic effects, and cause winds to become storms.

Satan also has the ability to do these kinds of things as well, but he is limited to this local sphere and even has limitations imposed upon him by God, preventing him from acting directly at most times. At times, however, God does allow Satan to mess with the elements a bit. We learn this from the Books of Job and of Revelation, as well as by his title "prince of the powers of the air" (Ephesians 2:2) in the Pauline Corpus.

Satan is allowed to do certain things involving the elements and altering of the minds of men within limitations in the Book of Job. These things result in the deaths of a large portion of Job's family. He caused a fire to come down from the sky (Job 1:16; this is called "fire of God" in some translations but this phrase is a Hebrew idiom (x. of God) meaning "a really big and powerful fire" and does not really attribute the fire to God). That it was Satan is governed by the context of the passage where the Lord gives him power over everything Job has but Job himself. All sorts of men come and attack Job's family members and property during this same time. Following this a very powerful wind comes and brings down the house where Job's family members were eating (Job 1:19). He indeed can use various methods to take life as well, if permitted. This not only is seen in the Book of Job but also in the limit that God set upon Satan that he could do whatever he wanted so long as he guarded Job from whatever life-threatening harm he might do (Job 2:6).

The power of bringing down fire from the sky also is confirmed by the Book of Revelation, and is a power that Satan can use and even empower others who do his bidding that allows him to have his servants work great miracles, even to the point of bringing down fire from the sky (Revelation 13:13-14; 16:13-14). Truth be told, and I by no means want to offend those who believe in things like Fatima, but when reading this passage from Revelation for some reason I was reminded of Fatima, just like when I read a Greek inscription with an image of Mary with outstretched hands in a Greek Orthodox Church I visited, stating that she was "wider than the heavens," the scripture stating that the way of destruction is broad later came to mind as I was pondering this and considering the beautiful ceremonies I had witnessed that day.

But, I digress. We also see a similar power over the waters that has been given to the destroyer, as we may learn from Section 61 of the Doctrine and Covenants. We can infer from various scriptures that the person we now know as the Devil had considerable power in the presence of God before his fall, power that he from time to time has been allowed to exercise even after his fall. This kind of power and influence lends itself well to the idea that floods can be caused and damage done. Combined with the scriptures that clearly state that a great wind can come as a result of Satan's tampering with the elements, this gives weight to the idea that he can cause windstorms of various kinds when so permitted.

And, then, there is an episode in LDS scripture wherein the ground shook when Satan was trying to get Moses to follow and worship him and he failed. You can read of this in Moses 1:21. If you can shake the ground enough, in the right place, or cause water to lubricate the right points in a fault line, it is possible to trigger an earthquake. So, it is not a stretch to see that Satan might have power to cause earthquakes, if he were permitted to do so, even if in a local sense.

He also is a master of illusion and can make himself appear like a single angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14; 2 Nephi 9:9; Doctrine and Covenants 128:20).

His favorite tactic, however, is to influence mankind to do violence and to needlessly war with one another. He whispers in the ears of the leaders of nations and fans the flames of hatred to bring about war and its accompanying suffering. Unfortunately, he has been given free reign in this department.

Does this help? If not, let me know. The wonderful thing is, even with all this power he has been given at times, the one thing he cannot do, for the scripture so states, is that he cannot know the thoughts of the hearts of men other than what he himself puts there by his influence (1 Chronicles 21:1; Acts 5:3; Doctrine and Covenants 10:10), God somehow blocking him from that ability of knowing thoughts of men not of his own making. Only God has the ability to know the thoughts and intents of the heart (see 1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:30; Doctrine and Covenants 6:16 [14-17]), although he can communicate this kind of knowledge to others through his Spirit (see, for example, Acts 5:1-11; Alma 12:7; 18:18-20).

[thesometimesaint]

I don't believe Satan has anymore power than what we give him.

[CASteinman]

I don't believe that if satan as any power over the material world, that it is very significant. I would suppose that if he had some power in that regard, that it would come by some sort of united effort on the parts of his minion -- which I suspect is a rare thing. Because, after all, he is trying to lead rebellious spirits.

Herding cats comes to mind.

I suppose he has some sort of cadre of individuals who work with him in lockstep of some sort though.

[wenglund]

I don't believe Satan has anymore power than what we give him.

Are you aware that I can change your "brain chemistry"?

If you read what I said, then I have unavoidably done just that. Your reading my words caused synapse to form and/or fire.

Even the least prompting or thought consciously suggested to the mind, whatever the source (including Satan) will cause this to happen.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[MormonMason]

I don't believe Satan has anymore power than what we give him.

So, are you saying that Job gave Satan all that power over his family, substance, and himself? Please explain how a perfect man gave Satan all that power over himself.

[thesometimesaint]

So, are you saying that Job gave Satan all that power over his family, substance, and himself? Please explain how a perfect man gave Satan all that power over himself.

I don't know.

[CASteinman]

Are you aware that I can change your "brain chemistry"?

actually.. I have been meaning to start a thread on something like this. I have the thoughts but need to find a few science articles to push it off into the deep water.

[thesometimesaint]

Are you aware that I can change your "brain chemistry"?

If you read what I said, then I have unavoidably done just that. Your reading my words caused synapse to form and/or fire.

Even the least prompting or thought consciously suggested to the mind, whatever the source (including Satan) will cause this to happen.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Now to prove it is you have to do is give up your physical body, and still post to this MB.

[Maidservant]

I have not read the entire thread due to time constraints (I'm through page 2), so I may have more to say when I finish later today.

I am a person who lives every single minute of every single day with what is called mental illnesses and personality disorders. I have improved over the decades of my lifetime, but if I had to say yes or no, I would say that 'no' the gospel has not helped me nor cured me. The big caveat would be that the gospel helps me in all parts of my life, but I have to work if I want money, not just attend church 7 days a week, right? Same with my mental illnesses. I have to do things about that specifically, and 'the gospel' isn't going to cut it, per se.

In the beginning of my journey, what I believed about the gospel was VERY damaging to me. I do believe that my mental illnesses have been one of the great grains of sands that have permitted me to get pearls from my relationship with God, because I have had to re-learn so many things about life and the gospel that at first glance seemed to be at odds to what I had once understood the gospel to be, but I personally think God wanted my beliefs to be broken down so he could show me new things and He has been with me every step of the way even when I couldn't even be there for myself.

I have said to my mom, "Do you know what it is like to do your visiting teaching when there are 3000 demons scratching and screaming around inside of you?"

Do you know what it is like to attempt to be a faithful, good person when this is your daily experience?

And yet I have attempted it.

I once believed that it was because I was a BAD person and that was MAKING WRONG CHOICES (the gospel--right?) that had led me to these hells.

I did not even know there were pills for things like that. And no one could tell me that. They could only tell me to REPENT.

I hurt a lot of people, my children, my husband, my self. I can't take those times back. I can only praise God for leading me thus far to the point where I'm not such a weapon of mass destruction (sometimes I still wonder).

In any case, there is so much that can be said, but there is a bit.

And I want to say that as far as I'm concerned, and I can only speak for myself and my personal experience, that the source of my experience is NOT SPIRITUAL (including NOT actual demons)--but rather due to structural (cellular) problems AND lack of nutrition (cellular starvation). My management is almost 100 percent nutrition based. Nothing else touches it--pills helped a little--but PRAYER NEVER DID (directly), CHOOSING NEVER DID, the HOLY GHOST NEVER DID, COUNSELING NEVER DID, SELF-HELP BOOKS AND PHILOSOPHY NEVER DID--but nutrition ALWAYS does. That's me. I can say that now. Before I had this level of awareness, I couldn't have said that, because I just experienced stuff directly and it did feel demonic and a lot of other things that have no names. But if I had arrived at this level of awareness, management, healing (not cure) and still continued to perceive this as demonic, I would say so and offer my two cents on how to deal with demons one-on-one. But that hasn't been my experience, so I can only say what it has been.