Advice and Opinions on Spiritual Healers

[Maidservant]

On 8/5/2020 at 11:38 AM, Tacenda said:

I can't say enough good for this advice Maidservant! It's well balanced and hopefully makes people sit up and listen! I especially like the end paragraph, good advice for sure!

You're sweet, Tacenda . Thank you.

[Maidservant]

On 8/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, Maestrophil said:

Thank you fo the alternate viewpoint.  This is kind of what I was hoping for too.  Because I really struggle with understanding these concepts, especially in the framework of being LDS.

I need to make a disclaimer that, internally, I am likely no longer recognizably LDS. So if this is your greatest criteria, which I can understand would be, you might want to take my advice with a grain of salt also.

My point of reference for decisions I make for my life, and the counsel I offer to others, is integrity and peace. What leads me to that, I do (or eventually learn to). What leads me away from that, I don't (or eventually learn not to). LDS concepts are not my reference unless they also fulfill integrity and peace. I'm also experientially, materially, and phenomenally based. I am not conceptually and mentally and informationally based. I feel the latter has far greater potential for deception than the former. I recognize that many earthlings are based on the latter, trusting it to a greater degree than the former. That does make it difficult for me to communicate with others until and unless I can establish a bridge across our different worldviews.

On 8/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, Maestrophil said:

For instance - you mention the generational trauma.  I have a really hard time getting that.  Someone's experience 14 generations ago is supposed to affect us now?  Please do elaborate. I get the 'traditions of our fathers" approach as one way to look at it - but to literally say that because someone, to use an example this woman gave my daughter, froze to death, so now, their nephew (in this case) has developed insomnia with a feeling of not being able to get warm as a result - that seems odd.  Is this the type of thing you think happens or is it different? What about the idea of not being 'punished' for the sins of our fathers etc? Just seems odd to me.

That seems odd to me too, as you've stated it, that very specific case. But I don't have enough understanding to evaluate it offhand.

I think the first place to consider generational trauma would be slavery. Those whose ancestors lived it for generations still have it in their 'bones' even if they are no longer externally slaves -- until they heal the slavery energy/conditioning. Now you may disagree, but if you were to agree or at least consider it, this kind of example would be where you might most easily be able to do so.

From another direction, I think somatic symptoms of what we consider less-somatic states (although I personally disagree as I consider everything to be somatic) are something even allopathic and traditional medicine and thinking (i.e. scientific) have established. For example, one can get ulcers by carrying massive distress, yes?

So it is not too far of a leap from these two acceptances, to put them together. That if there IS generationally carried distress in one's system, since it is distress of some type, that somatic symptoms are possible and maybe even likely.

The exact mechanism of this would require more time to explain, and there are still many things I don't have enough knowledge of (i.e. DNA). Also how specifically to pinpoint each symptom, I don't know.

To give some kind of answer to the 'punish for sins of fathers' (although perhaps another subject for another thread?), I have come to the conclusion by observing history and humanity at large, that we very much do bear one another's sins, all the time. If my husband cheats on me, HE is not bearing the sin (yet). He gets to 'have fun'. * I * am the one bearing his sin (i.e. the pain). What changes this situation for deliverance/integrity for both parties we might term, the atonement. Children absolutely do bear, and get 'punished' for, the sins of their fathers; currently, unless the atonement is applied. A scripture to ponder: Mosiah 13:13 "visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generations".

I do not have a personal experience with a specific somatic experience based on generational trauma, that I know of. So I can't speak of it. I did do Emotion Code and got some ancestral indications, but that was a neutral experience for me. I have had many specific somatic experiences based on personal trauma and condition, that I have not interpreted as generational, but my own stuff.

The kind of healing I do definitely involves generational work, but it takes the form more of the conditions and belief systems we've inherited. So I do clear those in various ways, but mostly by becoming aware of them and choosing something else. So I don't feel I have ability for other ways of working (again, not every healer is the same stamp); at least not with others; some things I might try for myself.

On 8/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, Maestrophil said:

The other thing I fear in much of the new-age type teaching is the focus seems to be on 'letting go" and "clearing".  I never have subscribed to the notion that one needs to easily let go of past errors because they 'did the best they could do'.  I regret my past mis-deeds, while at the same time not feeling quilt due to the cleansing power of Jesus - but I don't rejoice in those choices because I was fortunate enough to have learned a lesson from them.  Does that make sense.  Kind of reminds of the 'cheap grace' doctrine where you just call on Jesus and its 'one-and-done'.

I have to admit I love 'clearing' and it is the number one thing I do for myself especially (somewhat with others, but in a certain format). This clearing takes many forms, including simply clearing the clutter in my environment (i.e. cleaning house, ha ha!). And I love it because it is simple and quick while still encapsulating my commitment to myself and my healing. I also have realized for myself, that I don't need to add in as much stuff as I thought (abilities, energies, etc) as much as I need to clear out the garbage. In other words, does one buy a brand new house, if they have trashed their last one? Or do they just clean up and enjoy the true house underneath? How long does it take to clear out and take out big black trash bags, so to speak? Some time, but not as much as you might think.

I think there can be a fine line. Perhaps there are many who do too little and expect too much. I don't know. But for me, I know that if I make it too hard, then what I am doing is imagining that if I do 'this' 'this' 'this' 'this', then it will be fixed!!! I find that to be what I call 'token' and magical, because if you get the right combination of whatever, THEN something will happen. The emphasis becomes on what we can do instead of allowing the grace of the universe (or Jesus).

Clean is clean. Peaceful is peaceful. It doesn't matter if it takes a second or a lifetime. Too many people condemn themselves to the latter, when the gifts are already there and they just need to allow themselves to receive them.

Does it matter if you walked down a road, rode a bike down a road, drove a motorized scooter down the road? Not really. There may be some personal preference or some personal need to go slower or faster. But the one driving the motorized scooter and the walker ought not to judge one another that the other got it wrong and pat themselves on the back. They are both going the same place and will both arrive there and will both enjoy. Scriptures to ponder on this: Luke 14:15-24 and Matthew 20:1-16

On 8/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, Maestrophil said:

 

I am honestly interested inhering more and trying to learn

 

 

Cool, thanks . Hard to go wrong with that. You have to follow your own promptings if you don't feel right about the situation. On the other hand, it's good to examine if our fears are the result of just not knowing enough -- afraid of the dark, so to speak, and the monster under the bed, that we find out isn't really there.

[rpn]

I think I would ask if I could go with her once to see what it is.   Always best to know more before you decide how to respond.

The new Handbook updates announced last week addressed this very subject.    I think you might need to teach your daughter that our doctrine of agency makes it highly unlikely that any particular spirit is already assigned to be someone's child before the child is born, with a few exceptions like Jesus and John the Baptist.  That if God determined that before people married, that would be by nature subscribing to the NOT doctrinally supported Saturday's Warrior group.   And teach her about the handbook.

I would also talk through what fun it is to imagine but that the people who have stewardship are those who God might share info with.  Any healer doesn't have the stewardship to be able to get revelation on her future or past.  She does surely, parents may have some in relationship to what they should say and do, called and set apart leaders do in what they say and do.  That getting info from those without stewardship is risky at best.

I would also share the new handbook discussion with her mother and tell her that you read this to not support her seeing spiritualists, even if they are  licensed medical professional.

And then you'll just have to let it go.   You can't forbid it.  You want her to tell you about even things that make you afraid for her.   You can tell her you are skeptical and it doesn't seem consistent with how you know the Lord works.

[Maestrophil]

6 hours ago, Maidservant said:

 

Cool, thanks . Hard to go wrong with that. You have to follow your own promptings if you don't feel right about the situation. On the other hand, it's good to examine if our fears are the result of just not knowing enough -- afraid of the dark, so to speak, and the monster under the bed, that we find out isn't really there.

Thanks so much for the detailed information/explanation.  I do appreciate it.  I agree there are more things than we understand under heaven.  🙂. 

[Maestrophil]

6 hours ago, rpn said:

I think I would ask if I could go with her once to see what it is.   Always best to know more before you decide how to respond.

The new Handbook updates announced last week addressed this very subject.    I think you might need to teach your daughter that our doctrine of agency makes it highly unlikely that any particular spirit is already assigned to be someone's child before the child is born, with a few exceptions like Jesus and John the Baptist.  That if God determined that before people married, that would be by nature subscribing to the NOT doctrinally supported Saturday's Warrior group.   And teach her about the handbook.

I would also talk through what fun it is to imagine but that the people who have stewardship are those who God might share info with.  Any healer doesn't have the stewardship to be able to get revelation on her future or past.  She does surely, parents may have some in relationship to what they should say and do, called and set apart leaders do in what they say and do.  That getting info from those without stewardship is risky at best.

I would also share the new handbook discussion with her mother and tell her that you read this to not support her seeing spiritualists, even if they are  licensed medical professional.

And then you'll just have to let it go.   You can't forbid it.  You want her to tell you about even things that make you afraid for her.   You can tell her you are skeptical and it doesn't seem consistent with how you know the Lord works.

Thanks for the great advice!

 

[InCognitus]

When this thread showed up last Tuesday I read a few things on the church web site about Priestcraft, and to me the most useful article I read was this "safety training" presentation to the CES community: The Dangers of Priestcraft, by Paul V. Johnson, CES Administrator —Religious Education and Elementary and Secondary Education at the CES Conference on the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History 2002, 12 August 2002. 

Brother Johnson spoke of Priestcraft as a potential "occupational hazard" to CES employees, and much of what he said may also be applicable to the concerns expressed in the OP.  In his presentation, Brother Johnson quoted 1992 devotional talk by Elder Dallin H. Oaks, where he said:

Quote

“Another illustration of a strength that can become our downfall concerns the charismatic teacher. With a trained mind and a skillful manner of presentation, a teacher can become unusually popular and effective in teaching. But Satan will try to use that strength to corrupt the teacher by encouraging him or her to gather a following of disciples. A Church or Church education teacher or LDS university professor who gathers such a following and does this ‘for the sake of riches and honor’ (Alma 1:16) is guilty of priestcraft.....

“Teachers who are most popular—and therefore most effective—have a special susceptibility to this form of priestcraft. If they are not careful, their strength can become their spiritual downfall. They can become like Almon Babbitt, with whom the Lord was not well pleased because, as the revelation states,

“‘He aspireth to establish his counsel instead of the counsel which I have ordained, even that of the Presidency of my Church; and he setteth up a golden calf for the worship of my people’ (D&C 124:84)” (“Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall,” Brigham Young University 1991–92 Devotional and Fireside Speeches [1992], 111).

He also quoted a 1989 Assembly Hall address by President Howard W. Hunter (who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve at the time):

Quote

“Let me offer a word of caution on [the subject of teaching with the Spirit]. I think if we are not careful as professional teachers working in the classroom every day, we may begin to try to counterfeit the true influence of the Spirit of the Lord by unworthy and manipulative means. I get concerned when it appears that strong emotion or free-flowing tears are equated with the presence of the Spirit. Certainly the Spirit of the Lord can bring strong emotional feelings, including tears, but that outward manifestation ought not to be confused with the presence of the Spirit itself” (Eternal Investments, address to religious educators, 10 Feb. 1989, 2–3).

There are a lot of other things mentioned in the article that are helpful, but I won't quote it all here.

So the practice of priestcraft can be far more subtle than the examples of Nehor or Korihor in the Book of Mormon.  And I would agree that someone claiming to be a "Spiritual Healer"would fall within this category.

Edited August 7, 2020 by InCognitus

[Moroni Spagnola]

1) The only person that should talk like this to children is the parents. A father should baptize and give the holy ghost to his children. And we should do the spiritual teachings and healings also.

 

2) You need to start where she left off. Don't advice her of anything. Read the Scriptures together. Let her share her thoughts with you, and then pray to God together. This will bring you and your daughter closer together. Right now, it sounds like your getting robbed of this spiritual blessing. 

3) You are no longer bound to the mother spiritually so it's pointless to talk to her about spiritual matters.

4) Yes you should contact her. Tell her that she needs to stick to textbook psychological and it's your duty to do the spiritual psychology. Ask her for some pointers. 

5) Being offended is a sin. Getting angry is giving ourselves to Satan. You need to use the power of the Priesthood on your children. Be humble and take advice from your daughters psychologists on how to do this. 

[MustardSeed]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:24 AM, Moroni Spagnola said:

Getting angry is giving ourselves to Satan.

Disagree strongly, but that’s a separate topic