Acting In the Name Of the Lord

[salgare]

26 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Alma (the son of Alma) and reign of the judges came after that..  In any case, the people of God were organized into churches under high priests with keys, and they met in synagogues and houses of worship under both systems of kings and judges as mentioned throughout the books of Mosiah and alma.

So we agree, except there were no synagoues and/or houses of worship during the reign of the Kings.  Was it not Alma, after his wicked son Alma was converted and came back asking, Dad, can I start a Church, and he ponders, realizing  the end of the Kings was upon them and the need for something to fill the gap would be better than nothing and so says, sure, why not, could not hurt?

 

ah, yes its been a long time King Mosiah, not Alama the senior ...

The Book of Mosiah Chapter 25

Edited March 18, 2016 by salgare

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, cdowis said:

Did he give you a reference on the suggested words to use.  The church had a guide for suggested wording on various phd ordinances, but I don't remember that "casting out devils" was included in those instructions.

No, in my experience I made it up as I went.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, salgare said:

So we agree, except there were no synagoues and/or houses of worship during the reign of the Kings..

But in 2 Nephi 2:26, Nephi the first king (2 Nephi 5:18) said, “Behold, hath he commanded any that they should depart out of the synagogues, or out of the houses of worship? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.” Even as they observed the law of Moses, the performances and ordinances of which were conducted under the priesthood authority in place.

Jacob 5 shows how the Lord commissioned servants in the Mosaic, His own, and the Last Dispensations, as well as in "mini" dispensations such as we see in 3 Nephi 11. Enoch oversaw the creation of Zion, a super-cooperative (or church) of covenant families bond on earth and in heaven in the patriarchal order; I suppose Melchizedek did the same thing in Salem. This is just one of the many ways the Lord organizes the saints.

[salgare]

46 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But in 2 Nephi 2:26, Nephi the first king (2 Nephi 5:18) said, “Behold, hath he commanded any that they should depart out of the synagogues, or out of the houses of worship? Behold, I say unto you, Nay.” Even as they observed the law of Moses, the performances and ordinances of which were conducted under the priesthood authority in place.

So you are suggesting that the synagogues and houses of worship spoken of in 2 Nephi 5:18 held the Keys to Baptism etc.?  Or was the Waters of Mormon the first official, key held baptisms mentioned in the BoM time line?

[CV75]

1 hour ago, salgare said:

So you are suggesting that the synagogues and houses of worship spoken of in 2 Nephi 5:18 held the Keys to Baptism etc.?  Or was the Waters of Mormon the first official, key held baptisms mentioned in the BoM time line?

Nephi the first king had the authority to baptize (2 Nephi  31, most notably verses 11-13 and17-18). He spoke of his people's synagogues and houses of worship. So yes, he had those keys. Since his father Lehi knew the principle (1 Nephi 11:27), he also probably had that same authority. So I don't think Alma was the first to have and exercise them some 400 years later.

[cdowis]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, in my experience I made it up as I went.

Watch a TV preacher and got some suggestions from him.  When the person falls down, you know you have done your job.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, cdowis said:

Watch a TV preacher and got some suggestions from him.  When the person falls down, you know you have done your job.

I thought that meant they had been healed.

[Meadowchik]

On Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 0:49 AM, Ahab said:

Technicalities.  Order. Rules. Laws.

Our Father and our Lord are in favor of those.

Sticklers for details.

I think to see if we will do all that our Father and our Lord want us to do, even when we have the same power and authority they do.

I think also because each instance is a teachable moment whether for the holders or any witnesses.

[Meadowchik]

14 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, in my experience I made it up as I went.

In my limited experience and as a woman, a "get thee behind me, i....in the name of Jesus Christ, is sufficient."

[Atheist Mormon]

"So what are your thoughts?"

Prayers will not change outcome of any event but has a definitely positive effect on individual or masses praying.

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

"So what are your thoughts?"

Prayers will not change outcome of any event but has a definitely positive effect on individual or masses praying.

The scriptures disagree with you

Isa 38 [1] In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
[2] Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,
[3] And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
[4] Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
[5] Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
[6] And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city.

[Atheist Mormon]

18 minutes ago, cdowis said:

The scriptures disagree with you

Isa 38 [1] In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
[2] Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,
[3] And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
[4] Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
[5] Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
[6] And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city.

The Scriptures are for the faithful, who find solace and strength in them and I respect that.

However I have a totally other perspective of Life which is supported with real History & events, to give an example is the conquest of Byzantium (6) 

The Lord could spare the fall of the city and prevent all of the inhabitants destruction and sale to slavery....

There are hundreds of such documented historical events where Christians were to losing end of the deal...... 

 

[Sleeper Cell]

28 minutes ago, cdowis said:

2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

"So what are your thoughts?"

Prayers will not change outcome of any event but has a definitely positive effect on individual or masses praying.

The scriptures disagree with you

I suspect that anyone who would choose the screen name “Atheist Mormon” is probably already aware of that.  

[Atheist Mormon]

26 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said:

I suspect that anyone who would choose the screen name “Atheist Mormon” is probably already aware of that.  

Yes, my purpose to participate on this board is not to sway anyone on this to my point of view, rather to understand better why  and how you  keep your faith against such overwhelming evidences..... reality of facts.

[cdowis]

AtheistMormon

It appears to me that you have not had the "real experiences" that I and others have had with the Lord.  You can speak only for your own experiences, and the spiritual world is beyond your ken.  The signature argument of the atheist

"I have not experienced it,  I do not understand it, if I were god I would have done it differently, ergo god does not exist."

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by cdowis

[Cold Steel]

On 3/18/2016 at 4:18 PM, CV75 said:

Alma (the son of Alma) and reign of the judges came after that..  In any case, the people of God were organized into churches under high priests with keys, and they met in synagogues and houses of worship under both systems of kings and judges as mentioned throughout the books of Mosiah and alma.

Alma 13 is all about the office of High Priest in the Melchizedek priesthood. In the old world, the people were organized under the Levitical priesthood. Both groups were under the Mosaic Law at the time, so they were able to offer sacrifice. But in the New World the people also had the ordinance of baptism, right? Although there were ritual cleansings at the Jerusalem temple, I don't think there were baptisms before Christ; yet when John was baptizing in the Jordan, the people seemed to know what baptism was. 

 

On 3/19/2016 at 0:07 PM, Atheist Mormon said:

The Scriptures are for the faithful, who find solace and strength in them and I respect that.

However I have a totally other perspective of Life which is supported with real History & events, to give an example is the conquest of Byzantium. The Lord could spare the fall of the city and prevent all of the inhabitants destruction and sale to slavery.... There are hundreds of such documented historical events where Christians were to losing end of the deal...... 

Yes, but you don't know what was in the hearts of the people, nor what their deeds were. The people of the Old World were the people who had put the Lord's servants to death and had caused the apostasy of the ancient church. They had turned the church into corruption and may have been no better than the Nephites living at the coming of Christ in the New World, where whole cities were destroyed. You don't know what would have happened had the people repented of their sins and turned to prayer. The point is, you have no idea what all the contributing facts were. I have some atheist friends who thought what monsters Moses and Joshua (and their God) were because of what they did to the Canaanites. But the thing about the Canaanites was, the more you know about them, the more you don't like them. And if you knew everything about them, you'd want to wipe the earth of them! 

 

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Cold Steel said:

Alma 13 is all about the office of High Priest in the Melchizedek priesthood. In the old world, the people were organized under the Levitical priesthood. Both groups were under the Mosaic Law at the time, so they were able to offer sacrifice. But in the New World the people also had the ordinance of baptism, right? Although there were ritual cleansings at the Jerusalem temple, I don't think there were baptisms before Christ; yet when John was baptizing in the Jordan, the people seemed to know what baptism was

This is where the “mini dispensations” the Nephites and John operated under, come into play. The Nephites were given what they needed while separated from their brethren; John represented those who were given what they needed while among their apostate brethren. If there were baptisms unto Christ performed in the Old World before John, I suppose they would have been performed in separated communities such as Qumran. But the ritual cleaning of Jewish "tevilah" was a full-body immersion in a natural stream of water (or a font connected to such) while other forms were performed in the temple, so the form of John's practice would have been familiar to the Jews of his time.

[rodheadlee]

On 3/19/2016 at 7:07 AM, Atheist Mormon said:

"So what are your thoughts?"

Prayers will not change outcome of any event but has a definitely positive effect on individual or masses praying.

 

On 3/19/2016 at 9:07 AM, Atheist Mormon said:

The Scriptures are for the faithful, who find solace and strength in them and I respect that.

However I have a totally other perspective of Life which is supported with real History & events, to give an example is the conquest of Byzantium (6) 

The Lord could spare the fall of the city and prevent all of the inhabitants destruction and sale to slavery....

There are hundreds of such documented historical events where Christians were to losing end of the deal...... 

 

Sometimes prayers cannot be answered because the answer would have a negative outcome for others involved in the answer. An example would be: When sailing in the Southern Pacific ocean among many squalls in small boat near the equator we were dodging squalls all day. A humongous squall approached and we saw no way to miss it so we prayed mightily and the squall stopped in it's path, we continued on by and the squall went behind us. We were truly joyous. Several weeks later we were sailing from Bora Bora Bora to Tutuila (Samoa) when we encountered a squall line approximately 100 miles across and seemingly infinite in length according to our weatherfax. I prayed mightily again and the answer was  "No, these things must needs be, but you will arrive safe". We anchored in Pago Pago for a few months and I sat and watched these squalls hit Rainmaker Mountain and deliver much needed water to the island. Had Heavenly Father moved the squall line for us, the islanders would have been denied life giving water.