Breast Feeding In Church?

[Robert F. Smith]

A recent controversy over whether LDS women may/should breast feed in church covered or uncovered has made me reflect on the changing mores of Western society, and the influence we have (for good or ill) on non-Western societies.

http://fox13now.com/2013/02/24/breast-feeding-in-lds-church-creates-controversy/

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2013/02/call-to-action-lose-your-temple-recommend-for-feeding-baby/

I can recall a time back in the early 1940s when I was a little tyke with a pull-toy following my mother down the center aisle of a train (everyone traveled by train in those days), and women with babies were breast feeding in public just like my own mother did for all of her five children. The female breast had not yet become fully sexualized, an object of prurient interest and of consequent shame.

What do you think of the spread of this notion of prurience and porn throughout the non-Western world? Is it merely one more artifact of unhealthy Western cultural imperialism? Is it just one more vacuous feature of "Hollywood"? Or is it meaningless and innocuous?

What happens to LDS missionaries from the West who find themselves in parts of the world where bare-breasted women are not at all unusual (and I'm not talking about the cote d'azur or the beaches in Rio). Do they still have to look up or down, but not straight ahead? Does it matter?

[Calm]

My husband reports he merely removed his glasses when investigators decided it was lunchtime for the kiddies. With his eyesight, he could be respectful by not making the woman uncomfortable without being too uncomfortable himself.

I think it is unfortunate that society has created shame associated with nakedness. I think modesty can exist even in a society of nudists.

[thesometimesaint]

My son served in Zimbabwe. Where outside of the large cities bare chested women were common. He was told that while he couldn't help but look, it was not appropriate to stare.

[blackstrap]

In Central America it was not uncommon to have ladies in church feeding their babies and toddlers and older. I gave a couple of talks in church looking at the back rows to avoid looking at the lady in the front row breastfeeding. The most disconcerting time was during a missionary lesson where the lady was feeding her infant . Her 5 yr old came up for some nourishment also. When both children were done the lady just sat there quietly listening to the lesson,naked from the waist up. We Western missionaries had to quickly conclude the lesson and excuse ourselves. We were not able to deal with the cultural divide.

[Glenn101]

O.K. so I am one for which the sight of a well formed female breast causes some bit of sexual interest. However I can also control my eyes and confine any of my desires to my own wife. I do not get a rush from viewing a woman breast feeding in public. I see nothing innately "sinful" in a woman doing such. When I was growing up it was a rather common sight to see such going on un church and in the home.

That being said, the social mores of our time have changed. While it still is no more sinful today that it was fifty years ago, the social acceptance of this as an acceptable practice has waned along with the numbers of women who still breast feed their young. This is the reality that the ladies who desire to breast feed must deal with.

Glenn

[ControlFreak]

We had a women in a former ward who fed her child any where and at any time. The first time she pulled out her totally exposed breast and fed her child I was a little startled, but I quickly realized it wasn't a big deal and didn't think much of it after that. Nobody really cared.

It is a shame that pornography and degrading forms of nudity are such a problem (largely thanks to the internet) but normal, healthy forms of nudity (a mother feeding her child) is still totally taboo in some places.

It seems like with the inevitability of exposure to nudity at some point in the internet age, we ought to intentionally loosen up on non-sexual nudity to allow kids to have a healthy respect and understanding of the human body. It seems if you grow up seeing your mom naked and women in the community openly using their breasts for its primary purpose it would help it be less of a sexual thing. I dunno, hard to say though.

[Duncan]

In my experience I have never seen a woman breast feed her kid in sacrament mtg., there is a room for that in the church and so ladies just go there. However once at a DA in the mission...the husband left to get something from somewhere and the kids, wife, and us were at the table and the lady started to breast feed the kid in front of us and let me tellya it was incredibly awkward and in my nervousness I said something like oh dinner and a show! needless to say everyone laughed and my comp. beat me up after that! (not physically!) so I learned to keep my trap shut!

[Ahab]

My husband reports he merely removed his glasses when investigators decided it was lunchtime for the kiddies. With his eyesight, he could be respectful by not making the woman uncomfortable without being too uncomfortable himself.

I think it is unfortunate that society has created shame associated with nakedness. I think modesty can exist even in a society of nudists.

The purpose of wearing clothing is not about avoiding shame. The issue of modesty is all about displaying ourselves appropriately.

I have no problem at all walking around naked in my own home, or having my wife walk around naked. You're just not entitled to see us and I don't want you to see us, and no it's not because I am ashamed.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Ahab

[why me]

This can be solved with nursing rooms at church. One can find these in many chapels in Europe where there are a significant number of babies in the ward.

[why me]

The purpose of wearing clothing is not about avoiding shame. The issue of modesty is all about displaying ourselves appropriately.

I have no problem at all walking around naked in my own home, or having my wife walk around naked. You're just not entitled to see us and I don't want you to see us, and no it's not because I am ashamed.

Just make sure that the shades are down or the curtains are drawn.

[Ahab]

Just make sure that the shades are down or the curtains are drawn.

We have lots of land and we're surrounded by trees. We could even walk around naked outside and nobody would see us unless they were trespassing or using a satellite to spy on us.

The point is: What is acceptable for some people to see is not acceptable for some other people to see. It's not because of shame, but because certain things are not appropriate. Things should be kept within certain bounds appropriate for the intended audience. Nobody should see a Mother breastfeeding her own children except for the Father of that child and possibly their other children. Even other women in a Nursing room shouldn't see another Mother nursing her children. It's just not appropriate for them.

[MorningStar]

We have lots of land and we're surrounded by trees. We could even walk around naked outside and nobody would see us unless they were trespassing or using a satellite to spy on us.

The point is: What is acceptable for some people to see is not acceptable for some other people to see. It's not because of shame, but because certain things are not appropriate. Things should be kept within certain bounds appropriate for the intended audience. Nobody should see a Mother breastfeeding her own children except for the Father of that child and possibly their other children. Even other women in a Nursing room shouldn't see another Mother nursing her children. It's just not appropriate for them.

Huh? Have you ever breastfed a flailing baby who will not keep the blanket covering them? If there are four moms in a small mothers lounge, we're going to see each other and there's nothing wrong with it. I nursed my babies in front of my other kids because I wanted them to know that is the purpose of breasts. I don't want them to feel shocked the first time they see someone else nursing a baby.

[Tacenda]

We have lots of land and we're surrounded by trees. We could even walk around naked outside and nobody would see us unless they were trespassing or using a satellite to spy on us.

The point is: What is acceptable for some people to see is not acceptable for some other people to see. It's not because of shame, but because certain things are not appropriate. Things should be kept within certain bounds appropriate for the intended audience. Nobody should see a Mother breastfeeding her own children except for the Father of that child and possibly their other children. Even other women in a Nursing room shouldn't see another Mother nursing her children. It's just not appropriate for them.

Even when nursing under a blanket or shirt Ahab? It's that attitude that made it terribly difficult for me when nursing. I was totally embarrassed to nurse while covered in public and maybe thought it wrong. In fact it never lasted long before I was feeding with formula. When are people going to desexualize that part of the body and understand the function it has? Edited February 26, 2013 by Tacenda

[Robert F. Smith]

In my experience I have never seen a woman breast feed her kid in sacrament mtg., there is a room for that in the church and so ladies just go there. However once at a DA in the mission...the husband left to get something from somewhere and the kids, wife, and us were at the table and the lady started to breast feed the kid in front of us and let me tellya it was incredibly awkward and in my nervousness I said something like oh dinner and a show! needless to say everyone laughed and my comp. beat me up after that! (not physically!) so I learned to keep my trap shut!

Thanks for the chuckle.

[Robert F. Smith]

This can be solved with nursing rooms at church. One can find these in many chapels in Europe where there are a significant number of babies in the ward.

Many wards today no longer have "cry" rooms. So what do we do in those cases?

[Robert F. Smith]

We have lots of land and we're surrounded by trees. We could even walk around naked outside and nobody would see us unless they were trespassing or using a satellite to spy on us.

The point is: What is acceptable for some people to see is not acceptable for some other people to see. It's not because of shame, but because certain things are not appropriate. Things should be kept within certain bounds appropriate for the intended audience. Nobody should see a Mother breastfeeding her own children except for the Father of that child and possibly their other children. Even other women in a Nursing room shouldn't see another Mother nursing her children. It's just not appropriate for them.

Would you apply these strictures to all peoples everywhere? Or is this culture specific?

[Ahab]

Even when nursing under a blanket or shirt Ahab? It's that attitude that made it terribly difficult for me when nursing. I was totally embarrassed to nurse while covered in public and maybe thought it wrong. In fact it never lasted long before I was feeding with formula.

I'm sure it's hard to avoid it sometimes when people see your breast(s) when it's not appropriate, but the point is to be discreet rather than just toss them out there for the whole world to see. You shouldn't ever feel ashamed. You should just try to be discreet while realizing it's not appropriate for everyone to see.

When are people going to desexualize that part of the body and understand the function it has?

Your sex is the sex of a woman, and breasts are as much a part of your sex as they are of the sex of a male. It's not something either you or I can desexualize. Breasts are a part of our sex, and they should be, regardless of what they are for.

And no it's not appropriate for a man to display his breasts to the public, either. Both sexes should wear shirts under normal conditions while taking them off only when it is appropriate.

[Ahab]

Would you apply these strictures to all peoples everywhere? Or is this culture specific?

To all peoples everywhere. What some cultures condone should not be condoned. Righteousness should be our standard.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

We're supposed to be making Earth into the Garden of Eden, right? Presumably, at some point we should stop getting so embarrassed if there are Adams and Eves who choose to wander about in the buff. Maybe we could even stop telling them they're "unrighteous" for enjoying the sun on their skin. Isaiah preached naked for years; Moroni visited Joseph Smith wearing nothing but a robe; let moms nurse their kids. This gets back to the whole problem of trying to solve one's own issues by forcing someone else to change; if I can't stand to see a baby being fed, then maybe I should leave the room.

[thesometimesaint]

The quickest way to desexualize female breasts is to realize they are just over sized sweat glands.

There is a thin line between humor and disrespect on sensitive topics. Make sure you stay on the right side of the line.

[Ahab]

We're supposed to be making Earth into the Garden of Eden, right? Presumably, at some point we should stop getting so embarrassed if there are Adams and Eves who choose to wander about in the buff. Maybe we could even stop telling them they're "unrighteous" for enjoying the sun on their skin. Isaiah preached naked for years; Moroni visited Joseph Smith wearing nothing but a robe; let moms nurse their kids. This gets back to the whole problem of trying to solve one's own issues by forcing someone else to change; if I can't stand to see a baby being fed, then maybe I should leave the room.

Go ahead. Consider that. Think about watching a woman, other than your wife, breastfeeding a child. Think of yourself really enjoying the scene, watching and watching and watching. Now consider several other women other than your wife breastfeeding their own children, and many others around you just getting ready to breastfeed just in case those Mothers might want to take a break for a while. Imagine a whole room filled with bare breasted women, nah, a whole world. And not just for breastfeeding, either. Keep thinking about it.

Now Imagine walking outside and all the women you can see are walking around not just bare breasted, but totally naked. And all the men too. Now imagine that some of them, the married ones, start hopping on top of each other, in public. After all, they're married, and it's natural for married couples to feel the urge to want to have sexual relations with each other. Why be discreet about it? What about it may not be appropriate? Does any of that really matter to you, if you enjoy watching it?

You are out of the thread.

[bluebell]

Many wards today no longer have "cry" rooms. So what do we do in those cases?

Are there wards that don't have a mother's lounge? I've never been in one that didn't (and i've been in very old chapels and new construction) but maybe there are some out there?

[bluebell]

And no it's not appropriate for a man to display his breasts to the public, either. Both sexes should wear shirts under normal conditions while taking them off only when it is appropriate.

Like when a man is in a swimsuit?

[thesometimesaint]

The quickest way to desexualize female breasts is to realize they are just over sized sweat glands.

There is a thin line between humor and disrespect on sensitive topics. Make sure you stay on the right side of the line.

Will do. No disrespect was intended. In my culture women traditionally cover their breasts while breast feeding a small infant in public. But I fully realize that other cultures have other traditions.

[ERayR]

When a baby is hungry feed it. In the USof A it is better to have a small blanket and be discrete. I don't know about other countries.