Breast Feeding In Church?

[blackstrap]

There are cultures in this world where bare breasted women are not seen as sexual, these cultures have different female parts that are exciting to men ( eg early Japanese culture etc.)

For western men, I recommend a tour of some European beaches that are frequented by husky German women as an antidote to mammarial obsession.

[Wanderer7]

It's easy to talk about desexualizing the human body. And sure, there are some cultures that find various body parts attractive. However, psychologists and evolutionary biologists generally agree that men are genearlly hard wired to be attracted to breasts. Perhaps other cultures have found ways around this in early development. I don't believe that most men who have grown up in western culture can simply ignore it. I think we would have to start with children at a very early age and raise them differently.

[TAO]

I'm sure that if you have a few heartfelt chats with the infants in your ward, they'll happily accommodate your preference.

Nah, you misunderstand what I mean. I mean I'd hope the mothers would take them out into the lobby, if you get my drift. Here in the US, breasts are looked on in a sexual connotation, and I'd prefer for young men and boys not to have to look at them.

Edited February 27, 2013 by TAO

[Storm Rider]

As a man I have never looked upon a nursing mother in any manner but one of the great beauties of life. There are few things as heart warming as a mother nursing their child. If our world has become so sanitized that a nursing mother's breast has become a sexual object then we have moved too far away from an appreciation of life. It is as if we have chosen to shut off nature and have chosen to live in concrete jungles devoid of life and seeking to kill all life. It would do wonders to take your children out to a farm and help them understand where eggs come from, where hamburger comes from, and how life is created. Learning that seeds are planted in the soil; soil that is worked with the hands, and from your labor a harvest is produced. Girls and boys need to understand the simplicity of life and they do not need to be cut off from humanity. When I read some of these comments I am a bit stunned. What do you do when your children see art in paintings and sculpture? Are they objects of sexuality. Nudity is not sexuality and the only way simple nudity can become sexuality is by totally repressing it. If a mother breast feeds her infant in church respect her. If you see her breast in the process then grow up or strive for a modicum of maturity.

[Stargazer]

The quickest way to desexualize female breasts is to realize they are just over sized sweat glands.

There is a thin line between humor and disrespect on sensitive topics. Make sure you stay on the right side of the line.

Uh, mods? He wasn't being disrespectful, he was simply quoting biologists on the evolutionary origin of mammary glaneds. From Wikipedia:

there are many theories on how mammary glands evolved, for example, it is believed that the mammary gland is a transformed sweat gland, more closely related to apocrine sweat glands.[

[thesometimesaint]

Uh, mods? He wasn't being disrespectful, he was simply quoting biologists on the evolutionary origin of mammary glaneds. From Wikipedia:

True, but I can see where some might interpret that simple biological fact as disrespectful to women. Such was never my intent.

[canard78]

This can be solved with nursing rooms at church. One can find these in many chapels in Europe where there are a significant number of babies in the ward.

What is there to "solve?" What needs solving is the attitudes of members who stare and tut when someone breastfeeds in sacrament or the lessons. The European 'nursing rooms' are also the place where dirty nappies are changed and disposed of, so while it's nice to give mothers the option of privacy (and some prefer it), many prefer to not sit in a room with the wafts secreting from the bin next to them.

Very good OP. I would say that one of the most natural acts of nurturing and love should be welcomed in any meeting at church. Truth is that most women who do it will also do so very discreetly with a scarf or blanket anyway, aware of other sensibilities.

[canard78]

Just tell them it isn't meal time.

Lol

You've seen a hungry 1 month old right? They think an empty stomach is the end of the world

[canard78]

Nah, you misunderstand what I mean. I mean I'd hope the mothers would take them out into the lobby, if you get my drift. Here in the US, breasts are looked on in a sexual connotation, and I'd prefer for young men and boys not to have to look at them.

That's like trying to cure obesity by telling McD to sell carrot sticks too.

It's approaching the issue from the wrong end. The women should not be told to leave the room for the YM's sake. The YM should be taught where to look.

They don't 'have to' look at anything. My shoelaces were always perfectly interesting when I was a deacon passing sacrament to a BF woman.

[Cobalt-70]

I don't think that any man, however good intentioned and however high up they are in the LDS hierarchy, has any right to offer an opinion or directive as to what lactating women should or should not do during breastfeeding. Men are simply unqualified to make that determination.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Cobalt-70

[Hamba Tuhan]

Perhaps there are some men who are so purified that naked women don't affect them, and there are others who may have different orientations. If one of these applies to you, I apologize if my statement offended you. However, I know from experience that I am representing men accurately.

I trust that you are representing yourself accurately, but there are literally hundreds of millions of men on this planet who -- despite your implying that they must be either 'purified' or same-sex attracted -- don't view the feeding of a human infant as anything even remotely sexual. In fact, I rather suspect such men, and I am one of them, would be the norm, though the reach of Hollywood -- the public relations arm of Alfred Kinsey, Inc. -- grows increasingly long across the planet.

However, psychologists and evolutionary biologists generally agree that men are genearlly hard wired to be attracted to breasts.

CFR.

I don't believe that most men who have grown up in western culture can simply ignore it.

Even if you were right in your beliefs -- which you aren't; remember that Europe is the centre of Western culture -- America is not the world.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

They don't 'have to' look at anything.

Bingo! Sometimes some of our Young Men play cards around my table, ten or so of us all crammed together. It would be easy, if one wished to cheat, to look at his neighbour's cards, but as I always remind them, they get to choose where to look. If the simple feeding of a hungry infant is something a man (young or old) doesn't wish to see, the solution is far, far simpler than adopting purdah.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[TAO]

That's like trying to cure obesity by telling McD to sell carrot sticks too.

Yes. But, for strong things like this, sometimes that is the best path to take. After all, when it's difficult to block the triggers, the best case is avoidance.

It's approaching the issue from the wrong end. The women should not be told to leave the room for the YM's sake. The YM should be taught where to look.

I don't think you understand how hard it is for some people NOT to look. It took me several years of practice to hone my control my inner desires. It's not something you can just pick up due to the way our society is sexualized.

They don't 'have to' look at anything. My shoelaces were always perfectly interesting when I was a deacon passing sacrament to a BF woman.

But you saw it once. And you can never get that out of your head again.

Edited February 27, 2013 by TAO

[mapman]

Isn't it illegal in many places to tell someone to stop breastfeeding somewhere?

[thesometimesaint]

Isn't it illegal in many places to tell someone to stop breastfeeding somewhere?

Yes. In some places. But such is nowhere near universal.

[Stargazer]

I don't think that any man, however good intentioned and however high up they are in the LDS hierarchy, has any right to offer an opinion or directive as to what lactating women should or should not do during breastfeeding. Men are simply unqualified to make that determination.

I believe you may be correct.

There are jurisdictions, however, in the USA, where a woman might be arrested and charged with indecent exposure should she breastfeed in public, even if she is discreet about it.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes. But, for strong things like this, sometimes that is the best path to take. After all, when it's difficult to block the triggers, the best case is avoidance.

I don't think you understand how hard it is for some people NOT to look. It took me several years of practice to hone my control my inner desires. It's not something you can just pick up due to the way our society is sexualized.

But you saw it once. And you can never get that out of your head again.

We can't help but look. However it is inappropriate to stare.

[ERayR]

Lol

You've seen a hungry 1 month old right? They think an empty stomach is the end of the world

12 children, 34 grandchildren, 4 great grandchildren. Yep I have seen a hungry 1 month old.

[Stargazer]

Even if you were right in your beliefs -- which you aren't; remember that Europe is the centre of Western culture -- America is not the world.

You are correct that America is not the world, but it is arguable that Europe is still the center of Western culture. It may have been so at one time, but I would say that the USA has graduated to that position in practice. How many McDonalds restaurants are there in the rest of the world, compared with whatever the local equivalent in say, Paris, is, in the rest of the world. Nike swooshes are found simply everywhere. US-made movies are found likewise everywhere (Bollywood coming in second, perhaps?).

It may not be nice that the United States is the center of western culture, but I contend that it is.

Not that it matters when it comes to lactation.

[ERayR]

I don't think that any man, however good intentioned and however high up they are in the LDS hierarchy, has any right to offer an opinion or directive as to what lactating women should or should not do during breastfeeding. Men are simply unqualified to make that determination.

I can't fully endorse your sentiments. Granted there are some who are not qualified to but any man who has children whose wife breast fed them should have developed enough experience to offer an opinion. But then you know the old saying about opinions.

[ERayR]

Even if you were right in your beliefs -- which you aren't; remember that Europe is the centre of Western culture -- America is not the world.

I am sorry but I do not consider Europe the center of my culture.

[Sleeper Cell]

This is what comes of letting women wear pants to church. Give ‘em an inch and …

[Questing Beast]

Earliest recollections of seeing women (mom, aunt, their friends) breast feeding: I felt incapable of noticing anything else in the room until I stopped looking and/or left the room. Even while not looking, the vision of the breast (often a gorgeous "thing" in itself) remained on my inner eye. I can recall some of them to this moment. So to tell a male that breasts being used to feed babies are not at the same time attractive in themselves is poppycock. Anyone who refers to them as "feeding tools" or "sweat glands" or other dismissive references is being unrealistic. Sure, some men/boys don't care, but plenty of us do. The world is filled with individuals and each of us will react to what we see, and nothing can allay that reaction....

[ERayR]

This is what comes of letting women wear pants to church. Give ‘em an inch and …

Yep never shudda let em vote.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am agnostic on the idea.