God\S Plan For You, Include Mistaes And Bad Decisions?

[Duncan]

Ran into a friend from YSA days today, she hasn't been active in about 10 years, nice girl though. She was saying how she had to move from her apartment and had to live temporarily with some friends and joked about being homeless then she said 'it's all part of God's plan I guess' Which got me thinking I don't know what got her having to move outta her place or what but does God's plan include our mistakes or just plain bad decisions or does our mistakes and bad decision frustrate God's plan for us? How can you tell if your life is going well or messing you over in God's view? like what is a bad decision if everything you do is according to God's plan or are you permanently off course if you make one bad decision and you've now messed up God's plan for your life-i.e. I recall Pres. Hinckley not continuing that job with the train thing during WW2 and returning to church sevice, if he continued would he not have been the President? or could God intervene and say enough with the Trains I need you over here!

This should include spelling mistakes!

Edited February 23, 2013 by Duncan

[The Nehor]

I do not think there is a general answer.

[Glenn101]

God's plan for us acknowledges that we will make mistakes and provides a mechanism for overcoming those mistakes, but He does not plan the mistakes that we will make. At least that is my understanding.

Glenn

[Wanderer7]

He planned for Joseph and Martin's mistake. He even planned for Judas' mistake. If He didn't take our mistakes into account, why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

[Duncan]

to some it seems whatever happens in life is according to God's plan, as if God wants you to be homeless or dumb in school or watching AE's hoarders when you should be writing out a talk for tomorrow, like you know whatever but on the other hand it seems like what happens now if you and when you make mistakes or sins like how bad did you muck up things?

[Freedom]

I have never met anyone who was homeless who did not make their own choices to put them there. the exception to this would be those who are mentally ill. I have never met anyone who was excelling in their career who did not make their own choices to put them there. We get ourselves into trouble, God provides us guidance to get us out.

[Duncan]

I have never met anyone who was homeless who did not make their own choices to put them there. the exception to this would be those who are mentally ill. I have never met anyone who was excelling in their career who did not make their own choices to put them there. We get ourselves into trouble, God provides us guidance to get us out.

temporary homeless? thoughts on that? people can be homeless for periods of time until they get help

[blackstrap]

When you,as a fallible but fairly experienced adult,send your child to school,what is your PLAN ? Are there going to be bumps and hitches along the way? You bet. Will there be times when something totally unexpected happens,like a kid running down the hall crashes into your child and gives him a broken arm? Sure. Was that part of the purpose for an education? No, but it comes with the territory.

I watched a video years ago about how hospitals use probabilty to stock the hospital supplies. They know . based on statistics, that on average there will be 50 car accidents yearly that will require AB negative blood, so they make sure to have X pints of AB neg blood on hand at all times. Their knowledge does not cause the accidents, it just prepares for them.

Edited February 24, 2013 by blackstrap

[Wanderer7]

When you,as a fallible but fairly experienced adult,send your child to school,what is your PLAN ? Are there going to be bumps and hitches along the way? You bet. Will there be times when something totally unexpected happens,like a kid running down the hall crashes into your child and gives him a broken arm? Sure. Was that part of the purpose for an education? No, but it comes with the territory.

I watched a video years ago about how hospitals use probabilty to stock the hospital supplies. They know . based on statistics, that on average there will be 50 car accidents yearly that will require AB negative blood, so they make sure to have X pints of AB neg blood on hand at all times. Their knowledge does not cause the accidents, it just prepares for them.

I like that. The only plan I know for sure God has for us is immortality and eternal life. Maybe whatever else happens is somewhat circumstantial.

[Five Solas]

Ran into a friend from YSA days today, she hasn't been active in about 10 years, nice girl though. She was saying how she had to move from her apartment and had to live temporarily with some friends and joked about being homeless then she said 'it's all part of God's plan I guess' Which got me thinking I don't know what got her having to move outta her place or what but does God's plan include our mistakes or just plain bad decisions or does our mistakes and bad decision frustrate God's plan for us? How can you tell if your life is going well or messing you over in God's view? like what is a bad decision if everything you do is according to God's plan or are you permanently off course if you make one bad decision and you've now messed up God's plan for your life-i.e. I recall Pres. Hinckley not continuing that job with the train thing during WW2 and returning to church sevice, if he continued would he not have been the President? or could God intervene and say enough with the Trains I need you over here!

This should include spelling mistakes!

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

--Romans 8:28

It's a low view of one's Creator (and a high view of one's self) to think His creations (me, you, your friend) can confound His plan. We cannot defeat God even to the smallest degree--and that's comforting to know, especially when I experience adversity.

--Erik

Edited February 24, 2013 by Five Solas

[The Nehor]

to some it seems whatever happens in life is according to God's plan, as if God wants you to be homeless or dumb in school or watching AE's hoarders when you should be writing out a talk for tomorrow, like you know whatever but on the other hand it seems like what happens now if you and when you make mistakes or sins like how bad did you muck up things?

This is human nature. The person who screwed up and then fixes his life suggests God had a plan to recover them. They are silent on the plans God may have had if they had not screwed up. The worst cases of this optimism come from parents convinced that God has a plan for their wayward children, sort of suggesting they have to endure it. I think that is a kind of emotional armor.

[Calm]

to some it seems whatever happens in life is according to God's plan, as if God wants you to be homeless or dumb in school or watching AE's hoarders when you should be writing out a talk for tomorrow, like you know whatever but on the other hand it seems like what happens now if you and when you make mistakes or sins like how bad did you muck up things?

I think as far as God's plan goes...he provides the overall structure (family, community, etc), but you through your own choices make use of that structure and build on it....and then God comes along and makes use of what you have created to teach you what you need to learn, turning bad experiences into experiences we can look at and grow from. He being the great teacher that he is can make use of pretty much anything to teach correct principles, whether it is in contrast to what we have done or encouraging us to continue in our path, thus allowing us in the end to benefit from even our bad choices if we accept his teaching and direction on how to turn all things in our lives into the good fruit of the gospel and the Atonement.

To be clear, I don't think he does much to set things up for us pass the basics, he does not turn us into homeless people or divorced, etc. to teach us lessons, instead he works with what we give him to teach us....he teaches through changing of perception and attitude and increased understanding of the spirit. Thus one person in prison can come out of it spiritually uplifted because he listened to the spirit's teaching while another has been destroyed by prison because he wallowed in his suffering and did not seek wisdom from God, but only escape.

Edited February 24, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

I think that is a kind of emotional armor.

It can also be a way to excuse oneself from responsibility for one's situation.

[altersteve]

He planned for Joseph and Martin's mistake. He even planned for Judas' mistake. If He didn't take our mistakes into account, why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

He didn't plan for those mistakes to happen, He provided plans to fix them.

[Five Solas]

They are silent on the plans God may have had if they had not screwed up.

How many plans do you think God has, Nehor?

[The Nehor]

How many plans do you think God has, Nehor?

Depends on how you interpret the foreknowledge of God. Somewhere between one and close enough to infinite that us poor mortals would be overwhelmed by the number.

[Rivers]

Of course our mistakes are not part of God's plan. That defeats the whole point of agency.

[Freedom]

temporary homeless? thoughts on that? people can be homeless for periods of time until they get help

Unless their house burned down, or some criminal robed them of their housing, homelessness is a choice. We fail because of our own weaknesses. The question that could be asked is, are our weaknesses which cause us to make poor decisions given to us by God to help teach us? I doubt mental illness is part of our eternal nature for example.

[janderich]

"Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matt 7:14). God's plan of salvation and exaltation does not vary from left to right. It is a strait course leading to eternal life. We must "find" the way. Jesus was the only person who followed the plan perfectly from beginning to end. Because the plan is so direct we can know the exact course to follow.

Now what if we veer from the course, as indeed we will? Is sin part of God's plan? Of course not. Must God make allowances when we sin? Yes. Does God have a way to get imperfect beings back into his presence? Yes. We might track this rambling course from beginning to end. In so doing we will see that where we were weak we faced trials, that through these trials the Lord reached after us to pull us back. If indeed at some future point we are saved in the Celestial Kingdom we may see how every challange was a blessing, how every weakness was overcome, and how we ultimately conquered. But I would never call my life's road "God's plan". To say such a thing has a high likelyhood of leading to error. I then might say that anything that happened to me is God's plan. I then might think that no matter what I did I would return to his presence. This is not the case. There are not billions of individualized plans all leading to God. There is one. God's plan has specific gates that all must pass through. It has a specific road that all must follow. It has a destination which all must attain. Anytime were go astray we follow our own way, not His.

Does God know what I will do? Of course. Can I somehow damage God's purposes by my actions? No.

The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, either can they come to naught. For God doth not walk in crooked paths, neither doth he turn to the right hand nor to the left, neither doth he vary from that which he hath said, therfore his paths are straight, and his course is one eternal round. Remember, remember that it is not the work of God that is frustrated, but the work of men (D&C 3:1-3)

So for all intents and purposes there is only one thing we need to worry about. That is following the strait course leading to eternal life. Follow God's plan which is the same for you, me, and all people.

[Questing Beast]

... does God's plan include our mistakes or just plain bad decisions or does our mistakes and bad decision frustrate God's plan for us? How can you tell if your life is going well or messing you over in God's view? like what is a bad decision if everything you do is according to God's plan or are you permanently off course if you make one bad decision and you've now messed up God's plan for your life...

Does "God" ever get frustrated? Of course the emotion exists as part of "God" or else we could not experience it in the first place. Does "God's plan" ever become frustrated? Of course, or else you could not even conceive of such a thing in the first place, i.e. it is impossible for our finite minds to think of something impossible for the infinite mind of "God". As paradoxical as that looks/sounds, it has to be true. Anything being impossible is a finite concept, and if there is one thing I am convinced of, it is that my imagination is incapable of coming up with impossible things. Most of the wild flights of fancy seem utterly impossible in this world. Being capable of imagining anything and its apparent opposite is a parade of paradoxes. So we discount such musings as evidence of nothing more than our species capacity to imagine. There is no substance to any of it. But that is wrong, imho. This is where faith enters in: we are immortal beings, manifestations of "God" the only Infinite Cause that Exists, the only "God" that Exists. Everything we do is less than perfect because we do not know the totality of Existence. What appears to us to be caused by what came before, and to have an influence on what comes after (cause and effect, before and after), is really NOW to "God". Therefore the possibilities of each of our most insignificant seeming actions, or failures to act, even our most casual musings, alter/cause what follows, and those subsequent things are infinite also in their possibilities. The implication is that each of us is alike an egocentric "universe" of limitless variety. Even though to ourselves life appears to be linear, since space-time is set up this way, in fact we have complete contact and access to and control of our lives by having that kind of intimate contact with our "past". We can reenter and start up our life "so far" at any point. What lies ahead for we linear beings is only "God's" purview. So although we apparently screw up time and again nothing is final, ever, and we are always learning/refining with our life as the medium.

The foregoing is, of course, mere speculation. But it Is possible, and I believe actual, yet is not mutually exclusive to any other equally speculative and possible things. In other words, "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff" is quite possibly the most wise saying to come out of this world so far....

[theplains]

He planned for Joseph and Martin's mistake. He even planned for Judas' mistake. If He didn't take our mistakes into account, why did Jesus have to suffer and die?

Adam and Eve also made a mistake when they disobeyed God in the Garden of

Eden. He allowed it to happen (because they had choice) but it was not His desired

will that they do so.

Jim

[thesometimesaint]

We all make mistakes, and sometimes even sin. God's Plan is to allow us to learn from our own experience then repent when necessary.

[rpn]

I'd disagree that He planned the Joseph and Martin mistake of the 116 pages. He just knew they would make it and planned a contingency. That is different from planning it. His plan can only fairly be described as including the physical responses of a human body that are uncontrolled by what is put into a mouth, environmental pollution, what exercise is down or other things that are not influenced by mortal choices. (And then His plan includes the natural consequences of the laws that exist, not that He is happy about the effects of those laws on particular people.) The fact that there is opposition and exposure to evil IS part of his plan, but not our choice to choose evil.

I tend to think of most of the bad things that we experience being ones that arise out of our own or someone else's flawed use of their agency. Yes, He very much does have things set up to help us when agency is misused. But He set up the plan that we would all choose to follow our Savior and return with Honor, not every to fail.

[CV75]

Ran into a friend from YSA days today, she hasn't been active in about 10 years, nice girl though.

I don’t think that God planned the mistakes we make, nor that He assigns us to make them. I do think that He anticipated that we would make mistakes (hence the probation and the Atonement). Once we are born into the probationary state, He can even foresee specific mistakes on the horizon as our choices and their consequences in our lives unfold. He seeks to help us avoid mistakes, and also seeks to repair them when we make them.

I think the same goes for sin, except there is the element of forgiveness along with His repair. And I think the same goes for a lapse in judgement, wisdom, experience, etc., that can be any mixture of mistake and sin.

[Walden]

Of course our mistakes are not part of God's plan. That defeats the whole point of agency.

Yes, but if God is omnipotent, all-knowing, etc., he already knows which decisisions we will make, which paths we will choose, and essentially, he knows our destiny long before we ever arrive on this earth.

If god's knowledge is perfect, he already knows the mistakes that we will make in this life, no?