Damien the Leper Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Volg, would you consider Kabbalah to be an important aspect to Jewish theology? I used to love Gnosticism but lost interest because of its highly odd behaviors and beliefs.
volgadon Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Volg, would you consider Kabbalah to be an important aspect to Jewish theology? I used to love Gnosticism but lost interest because of its highly odd behaviors and beliefs.Agree with it or not, Kabbalah is an important aspect of Jewish theology. Some of it can be very bizarre, but there is still a lot of beauty and depth to it, and in the past six or seven hundred years it has informed every aspect of Judaism in various ways. If you want any book recommendations, just ask. I'm also going to post a translation of Hillel Zeitlin's reflections on the Zohar, reflecting the powerful meaning and attraction it holds for its adherents.
Damien the Leper Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Agree with it or not, Kabbalah is an important aspect of Jewish theology. Some of it can be very bizarre, but there is still a lot of beauty and depth to it, and in the past six or seven hundred years it has informed every aspect of Judaism in various ways. If you want any book recommendations, just ask. I'm also going to post a translation of Hillel Zeitlin's reflections on the Zohar, reflecting the powerful meaning and attraction it holds for its adherents.I would like some recommendations. There is something about what I have studied that has made Judaism near and dear to my heart.
volgadon Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I would like some recommendations. There is something about what I have studied that has made Judaism near and dear to my heart.I'll put together a list of a few of the more accessible works.
Damien the Leper Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I'll put together a list of a few of the more accessible works.Thank you, sir.
Kerry A. Shirts Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I'd rather impale myself on a spork.You have already done so to yourself - LOL! Spork, I like it! I think another contraption would be a knoon..... 1
volgadon Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 You have already done so to yourself - LOL! Spork, I like it! I think another contraption would be a knoon..... Companion of the knork. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Here is firewood, here are matches, there but for the grace of God go I.Just remember that all firewood, no matter how wet, is dry under the surface. 1
telnetd Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I am reading "The Gospel According to Jesus - What is Authentic Faith?" by John MacArthur.Gail 2
changed Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 The Second Comforter by Denver C. Snuffer, Jr.He also wrote this:http://www.amazon.com/Passing-Heavenly-Gift-Denver-Snuffer/dp/0615528961/ref=pd_sim_b_6Who knows more about this author?
DBMormon Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Just finished "GRACE" by Richard Paul Evansa little odd, but a good read 1
Tacenda Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Just finished "GRACE" by Richard Paul Evansa little odd, but a good read I agree with what you said, and want to add that it wasn't what I thought it would be. Edited January 21, 2013 by Tacenda
Duncan Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 went to my parents ward yestarday and unbeknownst to moi my Mom bought me the Temple Experience?...by Wendy Ulrich and The God who weeps by the Givens', very much suprised and it wasn't even me birthday 2
Damien the Leper Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 I just picked up Grand Theft Jesus: The Hijacking of Religion in America. I'm looking forward to the read. 1
Maidservant Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The Celts: A History by Peter Berresford Ellis. He has some passages on linguistics which is like nectar to me as I always have personal revelation on spiritual matters downloaded/freebased into my mind whenever I am presented with linguistic material, and this time was no different. 3
rodheadlee Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Discourses of Brigham Young, by Widstoe, way too many novels, the most recent being the Mercy Rule by Lescroart and a Cruising Guide To Costa Rica and Panama by S/V Sarana. 1
volgadon Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Discourses of Brigham Young, by Widstoe,I've been reading that again, fun stuff. 2
bluebell Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I'm reading "The Help" again. The movie is good as well, but the book, like always, is a lot better. 3
Tacenda Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 I'm reading "The Help" again. The movie is good as well, but the book, like always, is a lot better.Loved this book! And was so excited they made a movie of it. I know it is fictional but knew someone who grew up in Alabama and it very well could have been exactly as it was in the book/movie. She went to an all girl private school and grew up LDS. I sensed a tiny but of racism in her.
Damien the Leper Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I'm reading "The Help" again. The movie is good as well, but the book, like always, is a lot better.I love the themes of counter imperialism and revolutionary cultural and sociological ethics of dissent.
changed Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I'm reading "The Help" again. The movie is good as well, but the book, like always, is a lot better.We read this in our book club, although my African American neighbor has informed me that some were offended by it - he said he wasn't though, that it wasn't supposed to represent their perspective, that it was supposed to represent a white woman's perspective, and that is what it did. I'm from the North, but am now living in the South... hard to imagine some people were/are really like that. Edited January 22, 2013 by changed 1
bluebell Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The book i have includes a section at the end on the author and how/why she wrote the book. I don't know if all books have that included, but it was really interesting to read.
3DOP Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) I finally finished Les Miserables last night. Going to a matinee of the film this afternoon. I love the story, but Mr. Hugo and I are at complete odds with each other ideologically. The book should have been about a thousand pages shorter. Of course I might feel different if I believed that apart from Christ, the world is moving toward a golden age where all men will love like Jean Valjean because their stomachs will be full and they will have a place to sleep. I believe that until the return of Christ, prosperity will have the taint of evil just as much as misery does. Like Herman Melville's esoteric and sometimes unwanted distractions about whaling, Hugo goes into great detail about mundane facts about the city of Paris. It seems like one can grasp the difficulties Valjean faced while carrying Marius on his back without twice as much information about the history of the Parisian sewers.The book did awaken in me the need to gain a better knowledge of the history of France. Of course I know about THE Revolution. But besides 1789, I was unaware of the continuous upheavals that nation endured through the entire 19th Century until finally the Germans entered Paris in 1870 (?) forcing/allowing yet another change of government. But Hugo saw every societal upheaval in one of two ways. If it was modelled after his ideals of human progress, it was called an insurrection, and even if failed, was a glorious and necessary step to the Utopia that he seemed to imagine. If it was modelled after ideals that might slow down that progress, it was called a riot. Although he begins with the miserable thief Jean Valjean being transformed into a new man by his experience with an official of the established religion, make no mistake, though subtle, Hugo opposes those who would doubt his views of the practicality of a humanistic millenium.His justification of violent overthrow of governments mirrors philosophies that in the 20th Century justified all manner of violence against perceived enemies of the state. Those who adhere to a deterministic view of history are easily led to believe that it cannot be arrived at without great pain, turmoil, and even the occasional suffering of the innocent. But the beautiful end justifies the hastening on to that day, and the True Lover of Mankind without God has not blanched to cause untold human suffering for the folly of their godless cause. Victor Hugo did not have opportunity to see what Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, and other smaller tyrants did in the name of the future good of mankind. One may hope that he would have been frightened into reexamining his values.But I will let the author speak for himself in words that can certainly sound Christian, and his views are unquestionably high minded. He is nothing if not thoughtful, reflective, and passionate about his beliefs.One more word before returning to the fray.A battle like the one we are now describing is nothing but a convulsive movement toward the ideal. Fettered progress is sickly, and it has these tragic epilepsies. The disease of progress, civil war, we have had to encounter along our way. It is one of the fatal phases, at once act and intermission, of this drama whose pivot is a social outcast, and whose true title is Progress.Progress! This frequent cry is our encompassing thought; and at the present point of this drama, the idea that it contains still having more than one ordeal to undergo, we are perhaps permitted, if not to lift its veil, then at least to let the light clearly shine through it.The book the reader now has before his eyes-from one end to the other, in its whole and in its details, whatever the omissions, the exceptions, or the faults-is the march from evil to good, from injustice to justice, from the false to the true, from night to day, from appetite to conscience, from rottenness to life, from brutality to duty, from Hell to Heaven, from nothingness to God. Starting point: matter; goal:the soul. Hydra at the beginning, angel at the end. ---Signet Classics, 1987, Lee Fahnestock and Norman MacAfee translators, Les Miserables, by Victor Hugo, p. 1242Some may wonder why I am so opposed to the stated philosophy of the book. It took me 500 pages before I began to see why I was troubled with him. It might take others longer. Others, many others will agree with him anyway. When I saw how he arbitrarily approved of some riots and not others, I could understand how to interpret his words on p. 1242. Either way, make no mistake, this is a genuine classic of humanitarian philosophy, while also a literary classic that weaves together a beautiful, mysterious, heart warming, and satisfying tale of goodness and honor against a backdrop of misery that anyone of any ideology could adapt to their own beliefs. But I would recommend an abridged version.3DOP Edited January 23, 2013 by 3DOP 2
Tacenda Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 I finally finished Les Miserables last night. Going to a matinee of the film this afternoon. I love the story, but Mr. Hugo and I are at complete odds with each other ideologically. The book should have been about a thousand pages shorter. Of course I might feel different if I believed that apart from Christ, the world is moving toward a golden age where all men will love like Jean Valjean because their stomachs will be full and they will have a place to sleep. I believe that until the return of Christ, prosperity will have the taint of evil just as much as misery does. Like Herman Melville's esoteric and sometimes unwanted distractions about whaling, Hugo goes into great detail about mundane facts about the city of Paris. It seems like one can grasp the difficulties Valjean faced while carrying Marius on his back without twice as much information about the history of the Parisian sewers.The book did awaken in me the need to gain a better knowledge of the history of France. Of course I know about THE Revolution. But besides 1789, I was unaware of the continuous upheavals that nation endured through the entire 19th Century until finally the Germans entered Paris in 1870 (?) forcing/allowing yet another change of government. But Hugo saw every societal upheaval in one of two ways. If it was modelled after his ideals of human progress, it was called an insurrection, and even if failed, was a glorious and necessary step to the Utopia that he seemed to imagine. If it was modelled after ideals that might slow down that progress, it was called a riot. Although he begins with the miserable thief Jean Valjean being transformed into a new man by his experience with an official of the established religion, make no mistake, though subtle, Hugo opposes those who would doubt his views of the practicality of a humanistic millenium.His justification of violent overthrow of governments mirrors philosophies that in the 20th Century justified all manner of violence against perceived enemies of the state. Those who adhere to a deterministic view of history are easily led to believe that it cannot be arrived at without great pain, turmoil, and even the occasional suffering of the innocent. But the beautiful end justifies the hastening on to that day, and the True Lover of Mankind without God has not blanched to cause untold human suffering for the folly of their godless cause. Victor Hugo did not have opportunity to see what Stalin, Hitler, and Mao, and other smaller tyrants did in the name of the future good of mankind. One may hope that he would have been frightened into reexamining his values.But I will let the author speak for himself in words that certainly sound Christian and high minded.---Signet Classics, 1987, Lee Fahnestock and Norman MacAfee translators, Les Miserables, by Victor Hugo, p. 1242Some may wonder why I am so opposed to the stated philosophy of the book. It took me 500 pages before I began to see why I was troubled with him. It might take others longer. Others, many others will agree with him anyway. When I saw how he arbitrarily approved of some riots and not others, I could understand how to interpret his words on p. 1242. Either way, make no mistake, this is a genuine classic of humanitarian philosophy, while also a literary classic that weaves together a beautiful, mysterious, and heart warming, and satisfying tale of redemption against a backdrop of misery that anyone of any ideology could adapt to their own beliefs. I would recommend an abridged version.3DOPHopefully you get out of this movie as much as I did, but I came from a place of never having read the book or seeing the play. I'm still waiting to see if Volgadon enjoyed it. I begged him to try it since he didn't really desire to go at the time. (I just tried to find the conversation but can't see it, so maybe I've dreamed it up). But can't wait to hear how you liked it on this topic or the "Last Movie Watched" topic. I really want to see it again!
theplains Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 "Who Made God? - And Answers To Over 100 Other Tough Questions of Faith" by Ravi Zachariasand Norman Geisler. (bring your dictionary/thesaurus).Jim 1
Recommended Posts