New Missionary Applications Rising Dramatically!

[Hogmeister]

I don't want to derail this, but that is an excellent point. I always find those who criticize the church for making money on their investments ridiculous.

Clearly the church should invest in things which give the lowest possible return just to make the critics happy. Probably CD's at 1 percent would make them happy. Absurd.

"It is the duty of this people to do their own merchandising, and, if

I had the power, I would prevail upon them to take care of themselves, to

provide for themselves, and use their means in a way to benefit and bless

themselves, instead of pouring into the laps of those who will squander

and make an ill use of it, who will use it to sustain the power of the

enemy in his operations against the kingdom of God. This is right, and

who can say aught against it? Nobody but a fault-finder or an accuser.

As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons of God

assemble together, Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the brethren, to

find fault with those who are trying to do good. What I have said on this

matter will answer my purpose."

Guess who said it?

[mfbukowski]

"It is the duty of this people to do their own merchandising, and, if

I had the power, I would prevail upon them to take care of themselves, to

provide for themselves, and use their means in a way to benefit and bless

themselves, instead of pouring into the laps of those who will squander

and make an ill use of it, who will use it to sustain the power of the

enemy in his operations against the kingdom of God. This is right, and

who can say aught against it? Nobody but a fault-finder or an accuser.

As it has always been, and will be yet for some time, when the sons of God

assemble together, Satan will be on hand as an accuser of the brethren, to

find fault with those who are trying to do good. What I have said on this

matter will answer my purpose."

Guess who said it?

Larry Finkelstein. Did I get it right?

[Hogmeister]

Larry Finkelstein. Did I get it right?

I think it may have been Richard S. Fuld Jr. but I could be wrong.

[Hogmeister]

Speaking of City Creek. I think the current brethren shares the vision of the early brethren and I'm thankful for it. Current short sighted and narrow minded critics speak evil about a profitable Zion. They would rather that Babylon was profitable and Zion indebted to Babylon than the opposite. It was always in Gods plan that Zion sould be profitable in order to enlage its borders, beautify the earth and gain influence for good. Unfortunately or not the City Creek issue has sifted the wheat yet again.

"Now, brethren, bishops, presiding elders, influential men, men of

property and money will you go to now and gather up the means in your

settlements and set some good reliable men to merchandising in every

settlement, men who, if they make anything, will devote it to the building

up of the kingdom of God upon the earth. I care not how much a man makes,

if he only devotes it to proper uses, or how rich he may be if he make a

right application of his riches. It is the bad use that men make of their

wealth which God objects to. Go to, my brethren, and prepare yourselves

forthwith to import the goods you must have, and never admit of a store

being started in your neighbourhood again that you cannot control. It may

be asked how can you prevent it? By never spending a dollar with any who

will not aid in developing the country and in building it up."

[Duncan]

Thinking about some recent engagements announced in my locality with the girls just out of high school and the guys about three or so years older, I can't help but wonder if the reduced age restriction is going to result in an increase of marriages. For example, a young man might be thinking 'I'd better ask her now lest she go on a mission and I lose her forever". A returned missionary might also think a younger just out of high school girl might be in more of a marrying mood as she faces the decision as to whether or not to serve a mission.

i can see that or heck even just after a mission with a 20 yr old and 20.5 yr old, IMO far too young to get married

[why me]

We will no the affects of lowering the missionary age for a couple of years. True, there is now an uptick but it could be because it is something new. When it becomes old and 'ordinary' we may find the levels leveling out. Most likely this will happen. But at the moment the 'youngsters' are on a missionary high and they are taking advantage of it.

[BlueDreams]

Thinking about some recent engagements announced in my locality with the girls just out of high school and the guys about three or so years older, I can't help but wonder if the reduced age restriction is going to result in an increase of marriages. For example, a young man might be thinking 'I'd better ask her now lest she go on a mission and I lose her forever". A returned missionary might also think a younger just out of high school girl might be in more of a marrying mood as she faces the decision as to whether or not to serve a mission.

I sincerely hope not. I'm aware that I have a prejudice against 18-19 yr olds getting married that is somewhat irrational (based on stats, my own ability to marry at 19, and assuming no one could really be ready to wed that young). I know that there are plenty who can make it work and have met plenty of wonderful couples who have. But overall I just don't think it's a good idea.

But overall I doubt that'll happen. It's not in my gen's current mindset (overall) to do so or think about marriage at that age. It also puts the women in a "acted upon" framework....the guy will need to make this serious or she'll leave....of course she'll say yes to him. I was in love with a man when I left for a mission, very aware that leaving him would probably mean he'd marry (large age gap). I know a number of sisters that left guys and went on missions. Just because the guy wants it doesn't mean it'll happen. In short, it takes two to tango and I have a feelin most 18-19 year old women aren't wanting to dance yet. Most the ones I knew at that age weren't ready. Most the one I still know at that age, aren't thinking about it.

With luv,

BD

Edited November 2, 2012 by BlueDreams

[cinepro]

We will no the affects of lowering the missionary age for a couple of years. True, there is now an uptick but it could be because it is something new. When it becomes old and 'ordinary' we may find the levels leveling out. Most likely this will happen. But at the moment the 'youngsters' are on a missionary high and they are taking advantage of it.

It's just demographics. The age change opened up the pool of potential missionaries from "all single men 19-26(?)" and "all single women 21-(?)" to "all single men 18-26(?)" and "all single women 19-(?)"

Many of the 18 year old men going on missions would have gone when they were 19, so that isn't giving a net increase. The only lasting change will be 18 year old men and 19 year old women who go on missions when they otherwise wouldn't have if they had been required to wait.

I suspect we'll know the net benefit in a couple years, after we get past the drop off of when the younger missionaries would have otherwise gone.

Edited November 2, 2012 by cinepro

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Young men and women were contacting our bishop the day it was announced and I hear this was not uncommon.

BYUand UVU are anticipating a drop in enrolment next year of significant amounts. There are a lot of earnest young men and women out there. I guess Rexburg and Hawaii may be impacted as well.

Forgive me...but how I love this Church, what Org on earth could produce this from their children overnight? For that matter what other parents...

[MiserereNobis]

Forgive me...but how I love this Church, what Org on earth could produce this from their children overnight? For that matter what other parents...

The Catholic Church, in her long history, has many many many (keep going... many many many) such stories of faith and immediate selfless devotion

I imagine other religions do, too.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The Catholic Church, in her long history, has many many many (keep going... many many many) such stories of faith and immediate selfless devotion

I imagine other religions do, too.

True enough, but I speak of a more selfish time such as today, at the age of our missionary force. I watched as President Monson announced this...the expression on the faces of our youth was one of being giddy about, girls punching little brother laughing and the brothers returning suit as the age of their sisters were also reduced. I think this entire move will lead eventually to even higher levels of education within the Church.

[sdc999]

True enough, but I speak of a more selfish time such as today, at the age of our missionary force. I watched as President Monson announced this...the expression on the faces of our youth was one of being giddy about, girls punching little brother laughing and the brothers returning suit as the age of their sisters were also reduced. I think this entire move will lead eventually to even higher levels of education within the Church.

I've watched over the past several summers as my girls were "giddy" along with the entire youth group - all leading up to the day of their week long mission trip (one of several, smaller ones throughout the year are local). This last trip put them in Luling, TX, with temperatures reaching 105-110 nearly every day. They rebuilt/refurbished 4 houses for elderly people. The kids cannot wait to get there to sweat, exhaust themselves, and be of service to God with their actions. So, I think my wife and I have produced some really great girls along with our church and great youth minister.

I think there are many great LDS youth who devote themselves to their church because they love God but your comments show arrogance and smack with the 'look at us - our church is better than your church and our parents are better than your parents."

I'm sure we could bring up statistics of youth that don't reach full term because of indiscretions and are sent home early. Are those failed parents? NO!

It's great that youth, regardless of denomination, want to go and serve - at any age!

[Tacenda]

The Catholic Church, in her long history, has many many many (keep going... many many many) such stories of faith and immediate selfless devotion

I imagine other religions do, too.

LDS all my life, live in Utah. Dated a Catholic once and have a brother in law that is Catholic but not active. So not very knowledgeable about the youth, could you share the goings on of them in your church or point me to where I might read about their story or stories. I'll bet they're awesome and that LDS youth don't have the corner market on service.

[thesometimesaint]

Tacenda:

No group has a corner on service or truth. Though some groups have more than others.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I've watched over the past several summers as my girls were "giddy" along with the entire youth group - all leading up to the day of their week long mission trip (one of several, smaller ones throughout the year are local). This last trip put them in Luling, TX, with temperatures reaching 105-110 nearly every day. They rebuilt/refurbished 4 houses for elderly people. The kids cannot wait to get there to sweat, exhaust themselves, and be of service to God with their actions. So, I think my wife and I have produced some really great girls along with our church and great youth minister.

I think there are many great LDS youth who devote themselves to their church because they love God but your comments show arrogance and smack with the 'look at us - our church is better than your church and our parents are better than your parents."

I'm sure we could bring up statistics of youth that don't reach full term because of indiscretions and are sent home early. Are those failed parents? NO!

It's great that youth, regardless of denomination, want to go and serve - at any age!

I am not sure I have ever been more misunderstood, it is odd that having a Son and mission right now and being proud of the youth in the Church and their parents would lead to so many exclamation points within one post. How does my joy invoke anger in someone else; does my pride (or being proud) of those of my faith "attack" the faith of others...you misunderstand my comments. There are days that it seems no matter the position it is always the wrong one, wow.

[sdc999]

I am not sure I have ever been more misunderstood, it is odd that having a Son and mission right now and being proud of the youth in the Church and their parents would lead to so many exclamation points within one post. How does my joy invoke anger in someone else; does my pride (or being proud) of those of my faith "attack" the faith of others...you misunderstand my comments. There are days that it seems no matter the position it is always the wrong one, wow.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but your statement below does invoke the thought of, 'we did it and you're not capable of doing it'. (from both the church end and the parent end) Hey, I'm glad so many youth are eager to be involved with their church in a missionary manner.

You should be proud of your son. From reading other posts you have written, he seems like a great kid.

I apologize about the exclamation marks. My wife says I use them too much as well. I guess that's what I get being married to a teacher.

Forgive me...but how I love this Church, what Org on earth could produce this from their children overnight? For that matter what other parents...

[sdc999]

But for the record, I only used 2. You should have been there for my conversation with a school administrator last week. I used up my weekly allotment in one meeting.

[Storm Rider]

The Catholic Church, in her long history, has many many many (keep going... many many many) such stories of faith and immediate selfless devotion

I imagine other religions do, too.

It is true that the Catholic Church and many other churches and faiths have examples of selfless devotion to God and all of them are worthy of study and emulation. However, there is no other Christian church today that either offers the opportunity to its young adults or teaches them to sacrifice so much as the Church of Jesus Christ. It is an example that other churches could easily emulate. The Church of Jesus Christ takes seriously the call of the Great Commission. It is not a call that is reserved for just the priesthood or the professional theologian or minister, but it is a call for all those who are disciples of Jesus Christ.

Hyperbole is one thing, but the merit of the call to young people in the Church of Jesus Christ is real and not easily matched by other churches. To admire the sacrifice of these young men and women does not lessen the true sacrifice of others, but it is an honest evaluation of what is being accomplished by a relatively very small church having a worldwide impact.

[Calm]

I think there are many great LDS youth who devote themselves to their church because they love God but your comments show arrogance and smack with the 'look at us - our church is better than your church and our parents are better than your parents."

Showing joy at the devotion of others is not arrogance. Rather than responding in such a way, is it not better to point out like MN how such joy in the service of God is present in others rather than trying to diminish PaPa's joy as something selfish and inappropriate? If you feel the need, educate rather than condemn.

[Calm]

I think providing opportunities to serve among the young is one of the greatest gifts that a faith organization can offer its youth. The CoJCoLDS does a very good job in organizing such opportunities on a very large scale as well as long term (1 1/2 to 2 years), thus likely to have a greater long term impact on a larger amount of the youth.

This is not to diminish what other churches accomplish. It is not a competition in my view, but a chance for each organization to find the best way to help their youth reach out to others. It may not be possible for smaller organizations to set up such long terms of commitment as the LDS faith has done due to not being able to have as much control over the educational environment of their youth (I have no clue if universities make it difficult for nonLDS missionaries, etc. to postpone use of scholarships etc. for the time of their service but if they do, I can see it being harder for a small organization to persuade such a university that it is in its benefit to allow accomodations to be made for such youth).

I love the event that sd referred to happening among their youth and think that would be a great idea to be done among our youth, possibly altering camps or youth conference each year with such a service event or having a service event of that magnitude once every four years, like has been done in some areas with the Trek.

[Calm]

It is an example that other churches could easily emulate.

Emulate, yes; easily, not so sure as I think there are significant complications when creating such massive efforts. The CoJCoLDS has had a long time to develop its program and thus making changes like this last one 'overnight' is not a huge hardship, but setting up programs either from scratch or much less developed events could be very difficult, especially if it involves going to other countries. The LDS Church has the advantage of numbers which has allowed much of the setup work to be centralized and done by people who devote their entire work product to getting such things done. They can make deals with airlines to cut down on costs, handle their own insurance, etc.

Smaller organization without the financial or membership resources probably find it much more difficult to arrange long term events. It would be interesting to see something like a coop set up that would be available to any denomination desiring to provide their youth with such an opportunity to serve, something outside of the government's programs such as the Peace Corps that would allow religious activities to be included if the faith organization wanted to use the opportunity to proselyte as well as serve in more practical ways.

[Duncan]

True enough, but I speak of a more selfish time such as today, at the age of our missionary force. I watched as President Monson announced this...the expression on the faces of our youth was one of being giddy about, girls punching little brother laughing and the brothers returning suit as the age of their sisters were also reduced. I think this entire move will lead eventually to even higher levels of education within the Church.

or possibly less if people get married young and are with child but everyone waits to see what will happen and what the law of unintended consequences will be

[Tacenda]

I think that the younger age is going to cement the youth to the church. Once they go on their missions, take out their endowments first, they are totally commited since they have made covenants in the temple. With no opportunity to venture onto another way of life. On their mission they are under the watchful care of a mission president. So independence or freedom to choose what they do without repercussions is not there during the mission. Their life is spelled out for them. Like someone mentioned on here before, it will grow the church.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

or possibly less if people get married young and are with child but everyone waits to see what will happen and what the law of unintended consequences will be

Only time will tell...question is how long?

[Calm]

I think that the younger age is going to cement the youth to the church. Once they go on their missions, take out their endowments first, they are totally commited since they have made covenants in the temple. With no opportunity to venture onto another way of life. On their mission they are under the watchful care of a mission president. So independence or freedom to choose what they do without repercussions is not there during the mission. Their life is spelled out for them. Like someone mentioned on here before, it will grow the church.

There are plenty of RMs now that leave the faith, why do you think it will suddenly be different?