Children'S Testimonies At Testimony Meeting

[MiserereNobis]

The last time I attended sacrament meeting (which was admittedly awhile ago) it was testimony meeting. The first 10 minutes or so of testimonies were all children. There were a good number of young children whose parents whispered what they were to say into their ear and then they repeated it into the microphone.

Is this a common occurrence? How do you feel about this?

I have to say that it made me feel a little strange. Now, don't get me wrong, I am 100% in favor of children being religiously educated by their parents and ecclesiastical leaders (bring on the catechism!). However, when a very young child (3-4 years old) repeats in front of the congregation the words of his parents, "I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet" (etc), it seems to be more than just teaching. The child does not "know" as the child is claiming; the child is merely repeating words. I think the issue is compounded by the fact that the child is repeating these words in the context of a situation (testimony meeting) where people should be saying what they actually know. From an LDS point-of-view, doesn't this downplay the power of a testimony? Why would people have their children do this?

The traditional Catholic way of teaching catechism (Baltimore Catechism) was a series of questions and answers that the child would memorize. But this was done for learning doctrine, not for witnessing truth, which seems to be the purpose of giving a testimony, yes?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

ETA: typo in the thread title (Children'S). Sorry!

Edited October 11, 2012 by MiserereNobis

[KevinG]

The whispering is not always what the child should say. I never felt that was appropriate. Often times I was saying "It's ok honey if you want to do this just start talking..." or something like that.

My local leadership in my area has discouraged parents from allowing small children to go up to the podium unless they are really prepared to bear testimony of what they know.

[Calm]

They have in the last couple of decades discouraged the practice of parents prompting their children's testimonies in general though some wards may carry on the tradition. In my current ward, we have several children who come up on their own and give beautiful witnesses, some quite complicated, most are simple though. On occasion a younger sibling will tag along and want to bear his testimony with his sibling's help, but even this is pretty rare these data. Families are encouraged to have children bear testimonies in family home evening and sometimes in Primary.

Edited October 11, 2012 by calmoriah

[KevinG]

PS I have heard some very touching and sincere witnesses of God from small children and at the same time know adults who make me cringe when they walk up to the stand to give their latest personal update (we sometimes call these travelmonys, complainamonys, randomonys...)

[Whiskeypete]

"It may be best to have young children learn to share their testimonies in settings such as family home evening or when giving talks in Primary until they are old enough to do so in a fast and testimony meeting without assistance from a parent, sibling, or other person."

http://www.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church/meetings-in-the-church/18.2#18.2.3

[KevinG]

"It may be best to have young children learn to share their testimonies in settings such as family home evening or when giving talks in Primary until they are old enough to do so in a fast and testimony meeting without assistance from a parent, sibling, or other person."

http://www.lds.org/h...rch/18.2#18.2.3

Thank you. I knew there was a local policy but did not know the origins.

[zerinus]

The last time I attended sacrament meeting (which was admittedly awhile ago) it was testimony meeting. The first 10 minutes or so of testimonies were all children. There were a good number of young children whose parents whispered what they were to say into their ear and then they repeated it into the microphone.

Is this a common occurrence? How do you feel about this?

I have to say that it made me feel a little strange. Now, don't get me wrong, I am 100% in favor of children being religiously educated by their parents and ecclesiastical leaders (bring on the catechism!). However, when a very young child (3-4 years old) repeats in front of the congregation the words of his parents, "I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet" (etc), it seems to be more than just teaching. The child does not "know" as the child is claiming; the child is merely repeating words. I think the issue is compounded by the fact that the child is repeating these words in the context of a situation (testimony meeting) where people should be saying what they actually know. From an LDS point-of-view, doesn't this downplay the power of a testimony? Why would people have their children do this?

The traditional Catholic way of teaching catechism (Baltimore Catechism) was a series of questions and answers that the child would memorize. But this was done for learning doctrine, not for witnessing truth, which seems to be the purpose of giving a testimony, yes?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

ETA: typo in the thread title (Children'S). Sorry!

Sometimes children become enthusiastic about wanting to come to the pulpit and bear their testimonies (especially when they see other children or their playmates do it), and parents feel obliged to accommodate them. And if they don't have the self-confidence to do it on their own, their parents may prompt them what to say. Sometimes they may be prompted by their older siblings what to say. It is simply a way to accommodate the wishes of the child, rather than an exercise in indoctrination.

[HairBear]

To me, in that situation, with the parent whispering and the child just repeating it seems more like the parent is trying to show off, saying "look at my child sharing their testimony, isn't he/she a good little Mormon".

On the flipside, the best testimonies I've heard have come from youth who have had to stand up for their beliefs in a culture that is opposite to the standards of the Church.

[webbles]

Sometimes children become enthusiastic about wanting to come to the pulpit and bear their testimonies (especially when they see other children or their playmates do it), and parents feel obliged to accommodate them. And if they don't have the self-confidence to do it on their own, their parents may prompt them what to say. Sometimes they may be prompted by their older siblings what to say. It is simply a way to accommodate the wishes of the child, rather than an exercise in indoctrination.

As a parent of small children, this is what usually happens with us. I'd rather not have my children go up because I don't want to go up. But they see their teacher or sibling of a friend and they practically demand to go up. Most of the time, we can convince them to do it later, but sometimes you just don't want to cause a scene. But when the child gets up to the front, they get scared and don't remember anything (though they can bear a testimony at home fine). Thus the whispering.

[Saints Alive]

I seem to remember a letter being read that discouraged children from bearing testimonies during fast and testimony sacrament meeting. They encouraged the primary to hold their own testimony meeting instead.

I can see how a parent whispering to a child can seem disingenuous however there are probably children who do have a testimony but forget what to say when they get up there.

[Duncan]

it isn't an issue here

[Garden Girl]

I seem to remember a letter being read that discouraged children from bearing testimonies during fast and testimony sacrament meeting. They encouraged the primary to hold their own testimony meeting instead.

Thankfully our bishop has counseled parents that small children should bear testimony in family home evening, or in primary. And he has counseled the adults that our testimonies are to be Christ centered, i.e., no lengthy personal situations or travelogues. As a result our F&T meetings are uplifting and enjoyable. We always invite visitors to come up and join in bearing their "Christ centered" testimonies. So we've heard from numerous visitors through the years.

Fast Sunday is my favorite meeting...

GG

[swfarnsworth]

Whenever I see a small child go up and say whatever their parents whisper, it makes me cringe and hope there aren't any non-Mormons in the room, and for the same reasons that have been presented so far. Luckily, I haven't seen this done in my ward for awhile now.

[Storm Rider]

The last time I attended sacrament meeting (which was admittedly awhile ago) it was testimony meeting. The first 10 minutes or so of testimonies were all children. There were a good number of young children whose parents whispered what they were to say into their ear and then they repeated it into the microphone.

Is this a common occurrence? How do you feel about this?

I have to say that it made me feel a little strange. Now, don't get me wrong, I am 100% in favor of children being religiously educated by their parents and ecclesiastical leaders (bring on the catechism!). However, when a very young child (3-4 years old) repeats in front of the congregation the words of his parents, "I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet" (etc), it seems to be more than just teaching. The child does not "know" as the child is claiming; the child is merely repeating words. I think the issue is compounded by the fact that the child is repeating these words in the context of a situation (testimony meeting) where people should be saying what they actually know. From an LDS point-of-view, doesn't this downplay the power of a testimony? Why would people have their children do this?

The traditional Catholic way of teaching catechism (Baltimore Catechism) was a series of questions and answers that the child would memorize. But this was done for learning doctrine, not for witnessing truth, which seems to be the purpose of giving a testimony, yes?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

ETA: typo in the thread title (Children'S). Sorry!

I don't see this kind of behavior as much any more, but I have always discouraged it. If a child is not able to walk up to the mike alone and bear a testimony from their own heart, they have no business speaking in Fast & Testimony meeting. In fact, I think it is an abuse of the meeting time and it is not appropriate parenting. A testimony is born of and by the Spirit; it is not the product of words a parent whispers in a child's ear.

[MiserereNobis]

Thanks for the responses. It appears that it is a discouraged practice that is fading away.

[The Grimace]

I actually feel it is a wonderful practice. Little children mispronouncing adult words is so adorable! And the best part - the mic ALWAYS picks up the parents' whispers so we know exactly what the little tyke should have said which makes the baby-talk that much more cute!!!!

[mfbukowski]

The last time I attended sacrament meeting (which was admittedly awhile ago) it was testimony meeting. The first 10 minutes or so of testimonies were all children. There were a good number of young children whose parents whispered what they were to say into their ear and then they repeated it into the microphone.

Is this a common occurrence? How do you feel about this?

I have to say that it made me feel a little strange. Now, don't get me wrong, I am 100% in favor of children being religiously educated by their parents and ecclesiastical leaders (bring on the catechism!). However, when a very young child (3-4 years old) repeats in front of the congregation the words of his parents, "I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet" (etc), it seems to be more than just teaching. The child does not "know" as the child is claiming; the child is merely repeating words. I think the issue is compounded by the fact that the child is repeating these words in the context of a situation (testimony meeting) where people should be saying what they actually know. From an LDS point-of-view, doesn't this downplay the power of a testimony? Why would people have their children do this?

The traditional Catholic way of teaching catechism (Baltimore Catechism) was a series of questions and answers that the child would memorize. But this was done for learning doctrine, not for witnessing truth, which seems to be the purpose of giving a testimony, yes?

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

ETA: typo in the thread title (Children'S). Sorry!

Haven't read anything beyond this comment at this moment- I wanted to give my take on it uninfluenced by the rest of the thread.

I hate this practice, and we don't do it in our Stake. It looks like we are trying to brain-wash our kids- we understand it differently but the reality is that when non-members see this kind of thing that is how it appears.

In our Stake children are welcome to, and invited to bear their testimonies, and walk on up to the stand and say whatever they like, unassisted. If a child gets out of hand and goes on and on about what happened at school etc- the Bishop might get up and tell the child to bear his testimony and sit down- but heck the Bishop can do that with adults who get a little weird too!

I love to hear children's testimonies as long as they are from the child himself- but parroting an adult I think is inappropriate and gives the wrong impression.

Now I will read what others have said <ducking for cover>

[mfbukowski]

"It may be best to have young children learn to share their testimonies in settings such as family home evening or when giving talks in Primary until they are old enough to do so in a fast and testimony meeting without assistance from a parent, sibling, or other person."

http://www.lds.org/h...rch/18.2#18.2.3

Oh yeah- forgot about that little detail!

[Ahab]

As a parent of small children, this is what usually happens with us. I'd rather not have my children go up because I don't want to go up. But they see their teacher or sibling of a friend and they practically demand to go up. Most of the time, we can convince them to do it later, but sometimes you just don't want to cause a scene. But when the child gets up to the front, they get scared and don't remember anything (though they can bear a testimony at home fine). Thus the whispering.

I appreciated hearing this from you. It's what I suspect happens quite a bit, with the parents helping the children to bear their own testimonies based on what their children have already told them they know. Kinda like a whisper from the Holy Spirit, it seems to me, when the Spirit merely helps us to remember what we know when we're trying to share our knowledge with others even though the words sometimes get in the way.

[nosmelone]

I usually assist my children in this scenerio and I do whisper a makeshift testimony in there ear. It usually has the phrases such as "every fiber of my being" and "has done more than anyone save Jesus Christ himself for the inhabitants of this earth" and oft times refers to possible encounters of at least one of the three nephites. Just kidding I wouldn't dare. I agree with those above as far as working with my children to be comfortable bearing testimony while at home at fhe or other instances until they are comfortable doing it infront of the congregation by themselves.

[cinepro]

We once had a youth bear testimony that they "knew Joseph Smith was a true baptist".

I leaned over to my wife and suggested she probably meant "Methodist".

[Ahab]

We once had a youth bear testimony that they "knew Joseph Smith was a true baptist".

I leaned over to my wife and suggested she probably meant "Methodist".

Nah, she probably meant a true Baptist like John the Baptist was a Baptist... the kind of Baptist all Baptists should strive to be like.

[rongo]

We baptized a Russian-German family in my first area in Germany (they had a German last name, but were Russian. Their ancestors had been re-populated to Russia under Catherine the Great). While they didn't speak German, the father (a dentist in Russia) strove to learn and improve (he took night school German classes, and spoke well enough for us to teach him and for him to interpret for his wife and two sons).

While teaching the 3rd discussion (about the Restoration of the Church and the priesthood), I worried about whether to correctly pronounce "John the Baptist" ( Johannes der Täufer ; toy-fer), or to purposely mispronounce it as "tau-fer." Taufen is the word for "to baptize," so a "Taufer" would be "one who baptizes" for one who is at a basic level of pronounciation. Täufer sounds a lot like Teufel (devil).

I decided to correctly pronounce it, and he was shocked and horrified as he thought I said that the Aaronic priesthood was restored by "John the Devil."

Easily corrected, as I then changed it to "Taufer" and explained that it was the man who had baptized Jesus. They ended up being baptized and remained active. The last I heard of them, the mother passed away from aggressive brain cancer (prior to my going home from my mission).

[tyler90az]

Children know that the Savior is real more than most adults. They truly believe everything their parents teach them. The parents just go up because the kids do not articulate their beliefs. Now a coerced testimony is something else. If you bribe a teen, in my mind, it is worse then taking a small child up.

At the same time, I know how bad it looks to an investigator. I think in the end it needs to be left up to each family what they want to do.

[Tacenda]

Children know that the Savior is real more than most adults. They truly believe everything their parents teach them. The parents just go up because the kids do not articulate their beliefs. Now a coerced testimony is something else. If you bribe a teen, in my mind, it is worse then taking a small child up.

At the same time, I know how bad it looks to an investigator. I think in the end it needs to be left up to each family what they want to do.

Would you say it's wrong if a primary/youth (I've seen it in mostly YM/YW's) teacher uses some peer presure with their class to bear testimony? I've seen a whole class, one after the other, bear a testimony. Edited October 16, 2012 by Tacenda