Excommunication Cancelled.

[Kenngo1969]

This reminds me of when I was doing my masters study in America. Every Friday night, some student group held a candlelight vigil on campus 'for the people of East Timor'. Meanwhile, the Saints back in Jakarta were spending their weekends packing hygiene kits and shipping them to East Timor.

Comparing the behavior of the former group with that of the latter sounds like an absolutely perfect example of symbolism over substance to me. As Forrest Gump might say, "Caring is as caring does."

[Kenngo1969]

Here's the text of the email that Twede said he received from his SP that he posted on an ex-Mormon board,

And here's Twede's response to the Stake President,

He seems to be running with this "corporate empire" stuff. In an earlier post, he called the Church "an oppressive corporate empire."

WW

Wiki Wonka, that was your 666th post! Quick, post something else so you can rid yourself of the mark of the beast!

[Wiki Wonka]

Wiki Wonka, that was your 666th post! Quick, post something else so you can rid yourself of the mark of the beast!

Uh oh....oh, never mind.

WW

[why me]

The story is coming out by pieces. I believe that the meeting was canceled because the bishop could not attend. He was away at the date of the court. It will be interesting to see when the meeting will occur. However looking at the blog post, it seems that the person in question may wish to be excommunicated based on the tone of the blog and because on the attack on the leadership.

[why me]

Why would a stake president be making public comments about a situtation about a member of the church? Dicipline hearings should be a private matter - no exceptions. Does Allan Pratt make comments about other people he has counciled privately in a public forum?

I believe what happened was the board at MormonThink decided to contact the press about this case. It was picked up by many newsoutlets because the board seemed to put a Mitt Romney spin on it. . Also, the blogger made the stake president's letter to him known by publishing it on his blog. Linking his excommunication to having a negative opinion of Mitt Romney was the bait to catch the media fish.

At least that is my take on it. But I could be wrong.

Edited September 28, 2012 by why me

[Robert F. Smith]

From his blogspost:

Notice: My 30 Sept disciplinary court & excommunication have been canceled!!

http://mormonthinkbl...erestroika.html

David Twede has been off prozac for awhile. That's obvious.

What is more difficult to tell is whether the Lord will have to use a 2 x 4 upside the head to get his attention.

The General Authorities (the "Brethren") of the LDS Church are not a bunch of venal lawyers and businessmen, but kind, caring men who follow Christ. They include a noted heart surgeon (Nelson), a former university president and academic (Holland), and the former chief pilot for Lufthansa (Uchtdorf).

The LDS fast this Sunday is not for Romney. It is the regular, monthly LDS fast & testimony meeting, and must be completely apolitical. The fast offerings contributed and collected by the Aaronic priesthood will be used by the ward bishop to help those truly in need locally. That is in addition to tithing, which goes to Church HQ.

Mormons make charitable contributions at a higher rate than any other religion, and their Church engages in vast humanitarian relief efforts worldwide, even as it invests wisely in real estate, cattle ranching, farming, and training (on the theory that self-reliance is golden). I provide a summary and sources on the full range of LDS welfare activities at http://www.scribd.co...re-Expenditures . For further information, see the Wall Street Journal article on the subject here WSJ ARTICLE ON LDS CHURCH WELFARE.pdf

Edited September 28, 2012 by Robert F. Smith

[Bob Oliverio]

I think common sense finally kicked in, obviously w a little pressure from Salt Lake.  I think it will be re-scheduled sometime after the election.  And (sarcasm noted) why would we fast for the guy who supposedly sullied the face of the Church?!?!  Did any of the stakes in Nevada ask members to fast when Mr. Reid was debating Sharon Angle two years ago?

[ERMD]

The presence of a bishop at a disciplinary council held at the stake level for one of the members of his ward is not required, but most bishops would likely desire to be present. I know I do.

From the response to the stake president, this brother apparently either does not understand that, or wants to raise another point of contention.

[why me]

I think common sense finally kicked in, obviously w a little pressure from Salt Lake. I think it will be re-scheduled sometime after the election. And (sarcasm noted) why would we fast for the guy who supposedly sullied the face of the Church?!?! Did any of the stakes in Nevada ask members to fast when Mr. Reid was debating Sharon Angle two years ago?

If you have read his blog you should have been able to see that the blogger has very little respect or like for the lds church. His latest blog informing us of the cancellation and then going into a diatribe against the leadership and the Mall should tell most that he has issues with church leadership and decisions.

This wasn't a romney thing but an accumulation of his posts that were extremely critical of the lds church.

Edited September 28, 2012 by why me

[ksfisher]

Well, let's give it a bit to see what happens rather than jumping to conclusions. With conference coming up, I can easily see there being scheduling conflicts. This is at the stake level, is it not, so do not all 15 members of the High Council and Stake Presidency need to be there?

The presence of all three members of the Stake Presidency is required. All members of the High Council do not need to be present. If any are absent they are replaced by other High Priests from the stake.

The attendance of the bishop is not required, but is strongly encouraged. In most cases I could see a scheduling conflict with the bishop as a reason to postpone.

[why me]

David Twede has been off prozac for awhile. That's obvious.

What is more difficult to tell is whether the Lord will have to use a 2 x 4 upside the head to get his attention.

The General Authorities (the "Brethren") of the LDS Church are not a bunch of venal lawyers and businessmen, but kind, caring men who follow Christ. They include a noted heart surgeon (Nelson), a former university president and academic (Holland), and the former chief pilot for Lufthansa (Uchtdorf).

The LDS fast this Sunday is not for Romney. It is the regular, monthly LDS fast & testimony meeting, and must be completely apolitical. The fast offerings contributed and collected by the Aaronic priesthood will be used by the ward bishop to help those truly in need locally. That is in addition to tithing, which goes to Church HQ.

Mormons make charitable contributions at a higher rate than any other religion, and their Church engages in vast humanitarian relief efforts worldwide, even as it invests wisely in real estate, cattle ranching, farming, and training (on the theory that self-reliance is golden). I provide a summary and sources on the full range of LDS welfare activities at http://www.scribd.co...re-Expenditures . For further information, see the Wall Street Journal article on the subject here WSJ ARTICLE ON LDS CHURCH WELFARE.pdf

You are correct about this. But unfortunately these ideas of the church that you mentioned do not make much headway among those people who wish to believe otherwise. I believe that for exmormons they need to believe what they do to justify their decisions to leave the lds church and cement their new belief system into their consciousness. Thus, we have the Mall issue being repeated over and over and the claim that the lds church is a corporate church.

Edited September 28, 2012 by why me

[KevinG]

I could see fasting for spiritual and good causes but fasting for a politician shows who exactly the lobbyists and beauracrats are.

"God...I'm not eating because...

Similitude of sacrifice where the funds normally spent on self go to the Bishop to be shared with those in need. Not pretentious or asinine.

I want to show that I sustain you by sustaining a church member politician. Amen." Is this not pretentious or assinine to anyone else?

Not to sustain God through sustaining the politician but the other way around. Wanting to sustain a candidate a person believes would make a good leader of their country by asking for him to be guided, strengthened, etc. I would support a fast for President Obama if he were facing an important decision or crisis.

I am not particularly moved by the partisan nature of the request but at least its a positive gesture of faith and support.

[Calm]

As always, good points Cal.

Thank you,

[Calm]

The presence of all three members of the Stake Presidency is required. All members of the High Council do not need to be present. If any are absent they are replaced by other High Priests from the stake.

The attendance of the bishop is not required, but is strongly encouraged. In most cases I could see a scheduling conflict with the bishop as a reason to postpone.

Thank you for the info.

[cinepro]

If I ever make a Mormon spy movie, it's going to be titled "Excommunication Cancelled".

[rongo]

The presence of all three members of the Stake Presidency is required. All members of the High Council do not need to be present. If any are absent they are replaced by other High Priests from the stake.

The attendance of the bishop is not required, but is strongly encouraged. In most cases I could see a scheduling conflict with the bishop as a reason to postpone.

My counselors have been asked to substitute for absent high councilors before. I have been present for every stake-level disciplinary council involving one of my members; in every case, for support, and often to present testimony as well. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a stake president to reschedule so the entire high council or bishop can be there.

[sdc999]

I believe that for exmormons they need to believe what they do to justify their decisions to leave the lds church and cement their new belief system into their consciousness. Thus, we have the Mall issue being repeated over and over and the claim that the lds church is a corporate church.

I believe that for mormons they need to believe what they do to justify their decisions to stay in the lds church and cement their belief system into their consciousness. Thus, we have the gold plates issue being repeated over and over and the claim that the lds church is not a corporate church.

You see, most statements can be argued from either side by just changing a couple of words. If someone is in the church, they want to share what they believe is the absolute way and if someone has left the church, they want to try to get some to understand it as they have. It will be never ending. People will always want someone to share in what THEY are currently doing. Case in point: I'm sure your spouse has tasted something and grimiced and said, "this is awful" and then what do they ALWAYS say next? "Here, taste this!" Peoples instincts are to share what they have. In some cases, it is a good thing. In others - not so much, but each side will always know they are right and can't understand why the others don't see it.

The key is to feel comfortable in where you stand and if you can have a cordial conversation, great. If not go separate ways!

[ALarson]

I think this whole thing should have been handled privately. Why did Twede go to the press to begin with? Why not just try to work things out with his local church leaders? Those are the questions I have. I'm sure Salt Lake would have preferred to not get involved and to not having their PR department make any type of statement.

I guess it's paid off for Twede though as I've read that traffic on Mormon Think has gone up to 10 times as much as normal and is still climbing daily. Some news outlets are still publishing stories about him (now it's regarding the cancellation) with shots of the website and links included.

Maybe that's why he took it public? Maybe that's what he wanted all along?

I do believe there is much truth on his website (the same truths that are spoken about and written about on church websites, FAIR, etc.), but there is very definitely a spin put on these facts that do harm to one's faith.

[Bob Oliverio]

This wasn't a romney thing but an accumulation of his posts that were extremely critical of the lds church.

I have no doubt that this Twede guy's discipline has nothing to do with his views on Romney.  Never thought that for a second.  But I also have no doubt that the deferral of his disciplinary meeting has everything to do with Romney.  IMHO, this guy was given a national platform because of the lack of common sense amongst a our well meaning but naive brethren in Florida.  I also have no doubt, to curb the national attention, Salt Lake stepped in to diffuse the situation which never should have started in the first place.  And I would bet a month's wages that this issue was discussed between Salt Lake and Romney team members.  

Come on folks!! Let's stand up for our beliefs - but let's not be naive as to what's going on with this situation.

[Damien the Leper]

Similitude of sacrifice where the funds normally spent on self go to the Bishop to be shared with those in need. Not pretentious or asinine.

Not to sustain God through sustaining the politician but the other way around. Wanting to sustain a candidate a person believes would make a good leader of their country by asking for him to be guided, strengthened, etc. I would support a fast for President Obama if he were facing an important decision or crisis.

I am not particularly moved by the partisan nature of the request but at least its a positive gesture of faith and support.

I'm not saying the fasting is pretentious or assinine. God has nothing to do with Romney and American politics. If you want to help Romney...poor thousands of dollars into his campaign.

[why me]

I believe that for mormons they need to believe what they do to justify their decisions to stay in the lds church and cement their belief system into their consciousness. Thus, we have the gold plates issue being repeated over and over and the claim that the lds church is not a corporate church.

First, we have the story of the plates. This cannot be denied. Then we have 11 witnesses. This cannot be denied. What these witnesses experienced to have them keep their testimony intact is a good question to debate. However, to say that the lds church is a corporate institution is a matter of opinion. And that opinion is repeated over and over again by exmormons. Likewise the Mall as a symbol of the Mormon Profit. This is repeated over and over again. Which is a matter of critic opinion.

For the lds the church is not corporate. In fact, this is repeated by members to counter what the exmormons claim. I see a big difference between the two camps.

[why me]

I have no doubt that this Twede guy's discipline has nothing to do with his views on Romney. Never thought that for a second. But I also have no doubt that the deferral of his disciplinary meeting has everything to do with Romney. IMHO, this guy was given a national platform because of the lack of common sense amongst a our well meaning but naive brethren in Florida. I also have no doubt, to curb the national attention, Salt Lake stepped in to diffuse the situation which never should have started in the first place. And I would bet a month's wages that this issue was discussed between Salt Lake and Romney team members.

Come on folks!! Let's stand up for our beliefs - but let's not be naive as to what's going on with this situation.

This is quite a good fantasy but it doesn't survive reality. According to the stake president, the bishop was away on that day. So, it was cancelled permanently. Also, this is about someone is is accused apostacy. And in his last blog, he was still committing apostacy by claiming the mormon church only cares about profit and turns its back on the poor etc. The guy was given a national platform because someone from his camp lumped in Romney with the excommunication procedure. This then was picked up by the proObama media. Not a bad strategy, don't you think?

What should the church do with members who seem to be committing apostacy? Just forget about it?

[ERayR]

I have no doubt that this Twede guy's discipline has nothing to do with his views on Romney. Never thought that for a second. But I also have no doubt that the deferral of his disciplinary meeting has everything to do with Romney. IMHO, this guy was given a national platform because of the lack of common sense amongst a our well meaning but naive brethren in Florida. I also have no doubt, to curb the national attention, Salt Lake stepped in to diffuse the situation which never should have started in the first place. And I would bet a month's wages that this issue was discussed between Salt Lake and Romney team members.

Come on folks!! Let's stand up for our beliefs - but let's not be naive as to what's going on with this situation.

It must be great to have no doubt about one's position. However, it can get a bit embarrassing when you are proven wrong. Crow is not a tasty dish however it is served.

[DH]

As to whether David orchestrated this entire thing I have no idea. Either way, I'm glad its over ... for now.

Just curious as to how David could orchestrate the whole thing. Was the stake presidency collaborating with him?

[Deborah]

As always in these cases we hear only one side of the story as the church doesn't discuss these things. But some people love to grasp at anything that attacks the church.