Avatar4321 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 They are supposed to be called of God. Many of us feel he is suppose to be very trustworthy and this guy took that trust and trampled it in the ground. Therefore hurt the reputation of the church. Much worse then this Twede guy.Many are called, but few are chosen. The scriptures explain why.
MormonMason Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I have no doubt that this Twede guy's discipline has nothing to do with his views on Romney. Never thought that for a second. But I also have no doubt that the deferral of his disciplinary meeting has everything to do with Romney. IMHO, this guy was given a national platform because of the lack of common sense amongst a our well meaning but naive brethren in Florida. I also have no doubt, to curb the national attention, Salt Lake stepped in to diffuse the situation which never should have started in the first place. And I would bet a month's wages that this issue was discussed between Salt Lake and Romney team members.Highly doubtful. Come on folks!! Let's stand up for our beliefs - but let's not be naive as to what's going on with this situation.Yes, let's stand up for something. Purge the church of the wolves and get it over with. They have been among us too long and have no desire to change. Time to hand them over to the buffetings of Satan so that they may learn. 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 I wish he had complied with the First Presidency's request that he write the letter. Much of this aftermath might have been avoided thereby, and the guilt-bearers might not, at this time, be going forward with unresolved sins on their heads.Do we really know if they have? Perhaps it would be wise to be cautious in this conclusion.
Avatar4321 Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Yes.When exactly do these Stake Solemn assemblies happen?
MormonMason Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 When exactly do these Stake Solemn assemblies happen?Once in a blue moon. There are no set times. I have participated in a couple some years back.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Do we really know if they have? Perhaps it would be wise to be cautious in this conclusion.Since I've only commented on the information Mormon Mason has provided -- and since he has not identified the stake, locale or persons under discussion -- I don't see that I have been reckless. I do hope the perpetrators and local leaders involved have made restitution and repented insofar as they are able, but alas, based on Mormon Mason's rendition of the events, I doubt that has happened. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 When exactly do these Stake Solemn assemblies happen?I remember such events happening in the fairly recent past, though I was never in a position to be invited to one.
MormonMason Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Since I've only commented on the information Mormon Mason has provided -- and since he has not identified the stake, locale or persons under discussion -- I don't see that I have been reckless.I do hope the perpetrators and local leaders involved have made restitution and repented insofar as they are able, but alas, based on Mormon Mason's rendition of the events, I doubt that has happened.You are correct. And, I am in a position to know whether that has been done because I know many of the people involved. It hasn't. No restitution has ever been attempted.
ERayR Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 So we should believe there is some wild conspiracy going on to protect the Romney campaign despite the fact that the Stake President has allegedly stated the reason was because the man's Bishop was unavailable? Why should we assume the Stake President is lying?Because Bob says so. Get with the program.
why me Posted October 1, 2012 Author Posted October 1, 2012 Agreed. In fact, the Church of God of Prophecy down the road where I used to live ended up having some nastiness that led to its shutdown. Several of the children were molested by one the Pastors. That church building is now owned by Muslims and turned into a Masjid (Mosque).For some reason, mormons need to be perfect. At mormonthink, church history should have been perfect or the lds church needs to write a thousand page church history from a critic's point of view. Nothing should be left unsaid. And this book must be studied every year by the members.And all leaders must never make a mistake. 1
MormonMason Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 For some reason, mormons need to be perfect. At mormonthink, church history should have been perfect or the lds church needs to write a thousand page church history from a critic's point of view. Nothing should be left unsaid. And this book must be studied every year by the members.And all leaders must never make a mistake.Oh, I know. As Hades would say, "Isn't it just peachy?"
juliann Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I remember the advice of my father walking me to school when I was young, passing by a large sleeping dog: "Son, let the dog sleep, if you wake him he may get annoyed and bite you!". Looks like the Florida bishopric and this idiot Gordon just learned the difference between being "right" and being "smart"! They chose to wake the dog!And some are neither right or smart. Let alone in possession of relevant details. The source for the Gordon story is none other than Twede himself and he hasn't proved to be reliable in much of anything. The most that could have happened is that an email sent to a few friends that contained no more than a link to a public blog was forwarded to the Stake President. If you think emailing links of interest to friends makes you an idiot you must stay up nights worrying about your friends on Facebook. But the most mind boggling aspect of this scam are those who pretend MormonThink was such a guarded secret that only Gordon knew of its existence. Not one other person on the planet has read Twede bragging about laying in wait for ward members because MormonThink has no traffic. Zip. Except for that idiot Gordon, of course.Now we have to add unbelievably gullible to who is not right or smart. 1
MormonMason Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 The interesting thing is that Twede keeps hanging himself with more rope when he is also given an opportunity to show how sincere he really is. Who is really the idiot?
juliann Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 I'm glad it was canceled. Very bad timing for the Church.If Romney loses I wouldn't be surprised to see it rescheduled for some time in 2013 when the Mormon Moment has passed.Bottom line: if you want to be an active Church member -- regardless of what you believe -- you have to be respectful of the beliefs of the Church. I think in general, David was respectful but pushed things a bit far. As to whether David orchestrated this entire thing I have no idea. Either way, I'm glad its over ... for now.Seth, I do think it was orchestrated merely by how the media was played. You would be the ideal person to analyze the "called in" narrative, which looks more and more like an offshoot of the atrocity narrative. Twede involving Gordon in this thing is highly suspicious, but on reflection, I think the "witch hunt" is a critical element necessary to an effective narrative and a nameless random reader wouldn't have the legs of an organization known for defending the church. 1
sethpayne Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Seth, I do think it was orchestrated merely by how the media was played. You would be the ideal person to analyze the "called in" narrative, which looks more and more like an offshoot of the atrocity narrative. Twede involving Gordon in this thing is highly suspicious, but on reflection, I think the "witch hunt" is a critical element necessary to an effective narrative and a nameless random reader wouldn't have the legs of an organization known for defending the church.HI Juliann,I must admit I haven't followed this closely so I'm unclear on timelines etc...I thought Gordon was brought in due to a quote he provided the NYT. Did Twede point them in Gordon's direction or did the NYT reach out to Gordon because he is part of FAIR/Mormon Voices?Regardless, I find it amusing that Twede's effort to garner attention by raising the Romney issue has backfired and the same publication that first reported on Twede now characterizes his claims as "baseless." I browsed a one of Twede's blog entries today and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see that the Church has right to excommunicate him. Whether they *should* is another question that only his SP can answer; although I'm fairly confident Salt Lake provided the SP with PR advice after the media fallout.Seth
why me Posted October 2, 2012 Author Posted October 2, 2012 Regardless, I find it amusing that Twede's effort to garner attention by raising the Romney issue has backfired and the same publication that first reported on Twede now characterizes his claims as "baseless." I browsed a one of Twede's blog entries today and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see that the Church has right to excommunicate him. Whether they *should* is another question that only his SP can answer; although I'm fairly confident Salt Lake provided the SP with PR advice after the media fallout.SethThat is the point. He seems to have been caught in a lie about linking it to Romney for media effect or hiding the truth from the media. Something he claims that the lds church does: lies and hides the truth. And by his blog, we can see that he has no belief system in the lds church. And it seems that he wanted to play a mole inside the local church.
juliann Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 HI Juliann,I must admit I haven't followed this closely so I'm unclear on timelines etc...I thought Gordon was brought in due to a quote he provided the NYT. Did Twede point them in Gordon's direction or did the NYT reach out to Gordon because he is part of FAIR/Mormon Voices?Regardless, I find it amusing that Twede's effort to garner attention by raising the Romney issue has backfired and the same publication that first reported on Twede now characterizes his claims as "baseless." I browsed a one of Twede's blog entries today and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see that the Church has right to excommunicate him. Whether they *should* is another question that only his SP can answer; although I'm fairly confident Salt Lake provided the SP with PR advice after the media fallout.SethScott is a regular source for national newspapers so it is not unusual for him to be called. However, in this instance it appears he was called because Twede named him. Scott learned he had supposedly sent an email to the Stake Prez from the Times reporter and Twede was her only source on that. Had reporters made that source clear, the "Gordon turned me in" element of the story would likely be receiving the same scorn as Twede's other manufactured claims.From what I recall of the Tom Murphy affair, the reaction from SLC is pretty similar. They finally make public statements and then step out of the Stake President's way. There was nothing indicating that SLC was directing that, even from backstage. Everything even late after the fact indicated it really was a local decision. Not to mention that no one in SLC would be so unaware of how publicly this is played out that they would start this a couple of months before the election. Meanwhile, Twede has done some real damage to his cause. He burned some bridges with the press while the church built a few. 1
why me Posted October 2, 2012 Author Posted October 2, 2012 Meanwhile, Twede has done some real damage to his cause. He burned some bridges with the press while the church built a few.It just wasn't twede but also the board of mormonthink. I do believe that they made the decision to go to the press with the Romney angle. And twede okayed it. They were all victorious for 10 minutes and they celebrated. But now.....well....no more celebration. The tide has turned. They all showed their true colors at mormonthink.
Wiki Wonka Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 HI Juliann,I must admit I haven't followed this closely so I'm unclear on timelines etc...I thought Gordon was brought in due to a quote he provided the NYT. Did Twede point them in Gordon's direction or did the NYT reach out to Gordon because he is part of FAIR/Mormon Voices?Regardless, I find it amusing that Twede's effort to garner attention by raising the Romney issue has backfired and the same publication that first reported on Twede now characterizes his claims as "baseless." I browsed a one of Twede's blog entries today and anyone with 1/2 a brain can see that the Church has right to excommunicate him. Whether they *should* is another question that only his SP can answer; although I'm fairly confident Salt Lake provided the SP with PR advice after the media fallout.SethHi Seth,Here's a bit more of the timeline. Scott Gordon mentioned in the latest FAIR Journal: "I, along with everyone else, was able to read what David Twede was writing. He started blogging under a pseudonym, but then he, or someone who used a Twede family e-mail address, announced his real name on another Internet message board."Here is the detail on that. On August 23, 2012, a poster by the name of "starlight012" posted the following message in the "Advice" forum at lds.net.Hi, I am new to the forum. I want help. There is a member who is posting anti-mormon information and claiming to be a member in good standing. I know him, his name and want his leaders to encourage him to stop.What do I do?it's an article at that mormon think website.(link to political candidate discussion removed by moderator)I hope it isn't inappropriate to post and ask this here, but I don't know where else to do it.On August 24, 2012, "starlight012" made additional posts:Yes, that was a direct quote from the article at mormon think site.I think it's an anti-mormon site. I know the guy that wrote that and he's claiming to be a good member, but I know he's not.Are you saying that it's not really anti-mormon?I think if other Christians see this list, it will not be seen favorably.Now I am getting confused. Some of you have said that they lie a lot at MT, pretending to be active members. That's also what I know of David, the current editor there. However, some of you have said that the material is correct and while presented in a way to convey a message that pushes apart, it is not untrue. Some have said that it is very misleading, but that it has the facts correct.What is going on here?The new editor that I know is there because the previous one left the church. He is still a member, but I wouldn't call him a good member. However, I have read the article and now see that all of the points come directly from scriptures or standard books in the church. I think it is meant to divide people, using the facts. If this gets out to non-members, and if they think a good member is writing this, that is going to look bad.Can't we get it shut down or have the editor reprimanded by church leaders for portraying himself that way?This was the first time FAIR learned that the previous editor had left the Church (we don't know his name). This was also the first time that FAIR learned that there was a new managing editor.On September 9, 2012, "starlight012" returned to lds.net and started a new thread,I can't remember if this is the forum where I posted about the guy posing as an active member to run an anti-mormon site.Well, now he's attending church again.[Direct link deleted - Mods.]And writing about it.I understand we can't stop it, but, he's not being straight about his intent."starlight012" gave FAIR the full name of the editor, "David Twede". This was the first time that FAIR became aware of the editor's full name.Later, after Twede went to the media, he created an account at "lds.net" under his real name and attempted to post his "call to arms" against the Church. The moderators deleted it, and then, to everyone's surprise, they determined that Twede's IP address matched that of "starlight012." In other words, Twede, or someone at his location, is "starlight012" - the person who originally "called out" the blogger and passed information to FAIR about it. So, when Twede claimed in the media that he had a "source" that indicated that FAIR was involved, he really did have one. It was whoever posted the messages as "starlight012" from Twede's address.The moderators at "lds.net" then banned "starlight012" for sockpuppetry and posted the following message on September 24, 2012:Posted by Senior Moderator Eowyn:The person who started this IS the person who writes the blog, whose deception here will tell you all you need to know about his sense of ethics.WW 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) The person who started this IS the person who writes the blog, whose deception here will tell you all you need to know about his sense of ethics.They say that, when we write, we should write about what we know personally, quite clearly including this post from Twede's blog: 'Secrets breed lies'. Edited October 3, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan
sethpayne Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) WWWow. If true -- and I have no reason to doubt you -- this is incredible.ETA -- My biggest hesitation in accepting WWs account is that I find unbelievable that someone who set out on such an orchestrated plot -- as someone who runs a website himself -- would be so foolish to not use proxy servers. Edited October 3, 2012 by sethpayne
Wiki Wonka Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Wow. If true -- and I have no reason to doubt you -- this is incredible.ETA -- My biggest hesitation in accepting WWs account is that I find unbelievable that someone who set out on such an orchestrated plot -- as someone who runs a website himself -- would be so foolish to not use proxy servers.I don't think that I'm allowed to post a link to another forum here, but if you go to "lds.net," click "forums" and do a search for user "starlight012", you can verify it. The first thread is called "Report bad member?," and the moderator's post is on the last page.WWETA - Yeah, that's the reason we waited so long to say anything about it. It seemed too dumb to be true, and the blogger was doing a tremendous job of immolating himself in the media after the "bait and switch" regarding Romney. Edited October 3, 2012 by Wiki Wonka
sethpayne Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) I don't think that I'm allowed to post a link to another forum here, but if you go to "lds.net," click "forums" and do a search for user "starlight012", you can verify it. The first thread is called "Report bad member?," and the moderator's post is on the last page.WWETA - Yeah, that's the reason we waited so long to say anything about it. It seemed too dumb to be true, and the blogger was doing a tremendous job of immolating himself in the media after the "bait and switch" regarding Romney.Thanks, WW. I asked David about this on the other board and he is saying a family member must have tried to out him by creating the fake accounts.Can you share details on the IP address info? Did it come from a Florida ISP or elsewhere? At the very least we can help David sniff out the alleged impostor. Seth Edited October 3, 2012 by sethpayne
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