Christ Visits Other Sheep - In Europe

[hagoth7]

Last week we arrived at 3 Nephi in Sunday School, so it seems like a good time to bring up ancient testimony that Christ may also have visited ancient Europe as a third testimony of his resurrection.

The account comes from Germania, a Roman account written around 98 AD. In it, Tacitus mentions the report that Hercules visited Germania. Later on the author admits that perhaps it wasn't Hercules. "...perhaps it is only that we by common consent ascribe any remarkable achievement in any place to his famous name."

When one considers the achievements of Hercules, another candidate appears:

1) Hercules was reportedly the son of a mortal woman. But his father was God.

2) As a child, an attempt was made on his life.

3) As a young man, he had a vision that offered him a choice between an easy life of pleasure and vice, or a more difficult life filled with danger, hardship, and virtue. He chose the latter.

4) He restored a dead woman to life.

5) He took upon his shoulders the weight of the world.

6) His last deeds involved overcoming and escaping the world of the dead, by which he achieved immortality.

7) Afterwards, he ascended to heaven, where he joined his father.

Who really visited northern Europe?

Note that the account was compiled about the same time as the New Testament.

[Sevenbak]

It seems plausible. I've wondered about the fable of the golden fleece too, and if it might stem from the garment (of skin) passed down from Adam, which apparently ended up in the hands of Nimrod, who became invincible to his enemies and prey, at least according to Josephus's 'Legend of the Jews.'

It's all perhaps kind of Tolkienian: History became legend. Legend became myth.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Sevenbak

[Sevenbak]

I would also add that I do believe Christ visited the British Isles, but that belief is based on scripture, not Greek Myths.

[hagoth7]

I would also add that I do believe Christ visited the British Isles, but that belief is based on scripture...

OK, I'm interested. What scripture leads you to that belief?

[lizrenowden]

On a slight tangent - there is a legend that when Christ was a child he visited the Roseland in Cornwall, Britain (among other places), with his uncle Joseph of Aramathea - for what it's worth

[Alan]

I am personally convinced that Christ came here (Britain). Many of the apostles came too. Afterall, we're pretty well all Israelites.

I also believe the original Christian church survived the apostacy the longest here and, though mortally wounded, wasn't completely extinguished until the 6th century.

[DBMormon]

He also visited Spain (aledgely) - Gadara - to visit the gadarians and reclaim a lost tribe

http://www.fivedoves...0/fmriley82.htm

Edited September 10, 2012 by DBMormon

[ERMD]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

---William Blake

[Sevenbak]

Ok, follow my logic, if you will... This is the gospel according to sevenbak, it's certainly not official LDS fare. It falls in line with our knowledge of what Joseph said about why we first sent missionaries to Great Britain, and that much of the converts originally came from there, that there was strong blood on Israel there to accept the gospel.

Here's the scriptures that support my belief.

3 Nephi 17:4 But now I go unto the Father, and also to show myself unto the lost tribes of Israel, for they are not lost unto the Father, for he knoweth whither he hath taken them.

1 Nephi 21:1 O house of Israel. Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken ye people from far; the Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

1 Nephi 22:4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been led away; and they are scattered to and fro upon the isles of the sea; and whither they are none of us knoweth, save that we know that they have been led away.

Isaiah 51:5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

The promises to the "isles" of the sea are many, especially in the BoM. Great Britain is one of the most powerful "isles" nations in the world, and is also the mother gentile nation as described by Nephi. It is also full of a history of kings and queens who in some way have become nursing fathers and mothers to the gathering of Israel.

It just seems logical to me that they were on Christ's itinerary of the "other tribes".

Edited September 10, 2012 by Sevenbak

[cassieblanca]

very interesting!! I don't see why Christ wouldn't visit other countries. It makes a lot of sense.

[KevinG]

I look forward to when the records of the lost tribes are restored. A lot of mysteries will be made plain!

[CV75]

very interesting!! I don't see why Christ wouldn't visit other countries. It makes a lot of sense.

When I was an adolescent, I was intrigued with a news report of a group in West Indies/Africa(?) that met up with white anthropologists (or vice-versa) and explained about a White God that promised to return, coming and going from the sky (these explorers used helicopters).

Edited September 10, 2012 by CV75

[Sevenbak]

Just came across this, a pretty diverse wiki article on British Israelism. It explores some of the theories and myths/legends that such claims stem from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

[USU78]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

---William Blake

[ERMD]

That's it!

[Avatar4321]

Last week we arrived at 3 Nephi in Sunday School, so it seems like a good time to bring up ancient testimony that Christ may also have visited ancient Europe as a third testimony of his resurrection.

The account comes from Germania, a Roman account written around 98 AD. In it, Tacitus mentions the report that Hercules visited Germania. Later on the author admits that perhaps it wasn't Hercules. "...perhaps it is only that we by common consent ascribe any remarkable achievement in any place to his famous name."

When one considers the achievements of Hercules, another candidate appears:

1) Hercules was reportedly the son of a mortal woman. But his father was God.

2) As a child, an attempt was made on his life.

3) As a young man, he had a vision that offered him a choice between an easy life of pleasure and vice, or a more difficult life filled with danger, hardship, and virtue. He chose the latter.

4) He restored a dead woman to life.

5) He took upon his shoulders the weight of the world.

6) His last deeds involved overcoming and escaping the world of the dead, by which he achieved immortality.

7) Afterwards, he ascended to heaven, where he joined his father.

Who really visited northern Europe?

Note that the account was compiled about the same time as the New Testament.

That's particularly interesting considering a discussion we had on here a while ago about Nephites possibly being the ancestors of some Germanic tribes.

[Alan]

There is a theory that the current Queen sits on King David's throne. The story goes that Jeremiah ended up in Ireland accompanied by one of the princesses from the royal courts of Judah destroyed by the Babylonians. It is from her that the Irish monarchy was established, later transferring to Scotland and ultimately the whole of the British Isles.

Interestingly "British" means "covenant man".

Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the Holy Grail that King Arthur and the knights of the roundtable sought was actually the priesthood. They were aware of the apostacy and knew that all was lost unless the Holy Grail (an authorised Priesthhod holder) could be found. They failed and the rest is history.

[hagoth7]

...The story goes that Jeremiah ended up in Ireland accompanied by one of the princesses from the royal courts of Judah destroyed by the Babylonians. It is from her that the Irish monarchy was established, later transferring to Scotland and ultimately the whole of the British Isles.

The princess Tea Tephi account was unfortunately fabricated in 1861 in apparent response to the Nephite account. A Celtic priest apparently wanted Celts to have a biblical origin account of their own. Too bad one can't find mention of a Tea Tephi prior to 1861.

[volgadon]

Interestingly "British" means "covenant man".

Only by a fundamental misunderstanding of Hebrew grammar. Pretending for a moment that it can be broken down into Hebrew, the word order would yield "a covenant of a man."

[brightpath]

Ok, follow my logic, if you will... This is the gospel according to sevenbak, it's certainly not official LDS fare. It falls in line with our knowledge of what Joseph said about why we first sent missionaries to Great Britain, and that much of the converts originally came from there, that there was strong blood on Israel there to accept the gospel.

Here's the scriptures that support my belief.

3 Nephi 17:4 But now I go unto the Father, and also to show myself unto the lost tribes of Israel, for they are not lost unto the Father, for he knoweth whither he hath taken them.

1 Nephi 21:1 O house of Israel. Listen, O isles, unto me, and hearken ye people from far; the Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

Correction, God first sent missionaries to the native tribes before Britain and Britain is a gentile nation not of Israel

1 Nephi 22:4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been led away; and they are scattered to and fro upon the isles of the sea; and whither they are none of us knoweth, save that we know that they have been led away.

Isaiah 51:5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.

The promises to the "isles" of the sea are many, especially in the BoM. Great Britain is one of the most powerful "isles" nations in the world, and is also the mother gentile nation as described by Nephi. It is also full of a history of kings and queens who in some way have become nursing fathers and mothers to the gathering of Israel.

It just seems logical to me that they were on Christ's itinerary of the "other tribes".

[brightpath]

Correction, God first missionaries to the native tribes before he sent them to Britain. Britain is a gentile nation as nephi mentioned

[sheilauk]

And did those feet in ancient time.

Walk upon Englands mountains green:

And was the holy Lamb of God,

On Englands pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,

Shine forth upon our clouded hills?

And was Jerusalem builded here,

Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;

Bring me my Arrows of desire:

Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!

Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,

Nor shall my Sword sleep in my hand:

Till we have built Jerusalem,

In Englands green & pleasant Land

---William Blake

Jerusalem is a wonderful poem set to great music and is one of my favourite hymns. It doesn't talk of a visit by the Lamb of God, but asks whether He did visit and implicitedly answers no when it talks of the dark, satanic mills and goes on to say that we should struggle to build a country worthy of being Jerusalem and a visit by Him and not stop until we have. Blake didn't believe Christ had come to Britain, but that He could one day.

[Alan]

Correction, God first missionaries to the native tribes before he sent them to Britain. Britain is a gentile nation as nephi mentioned

Although Britain is referred to as a gentile nation, that is only because everyone, including the British themselves, regard Britain as gentile. The truth is the British Isles are teeming with Israelite blood and the arrival of (mostly) Ephraimites in these islands in the form of Celts, Saxons, Angles, Danes and Normans has been well researched over the years.

[brightpath]

The Book of Mormon is very clear on who Israel is. Nephi in vision referred to Europe as gentile nations. Celts, Saxons, Danes etc are Gentiles. Read the title page of the BorM.

[Alan]

The Book of Mormon is very clear on who Israel is. Nephi in vision referred to Europe as gentile nations. Celts, Saxons, Danes etc are Gentiles. Read the title page of the BorM.

And how would Nephi know?

Most Britons in the church have patriarchal blessings informing them they are literal descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Mine does, and then goes on to say "you have come through the loins of Ephraim". The migrations I mentioned (Saxons etc) were rich in Israelite (not Jewish) blood.

Now, I'm not saying there isn't any gentile blood mixed in because of course there is. We may be scriptually a gentile nation (as is the US) but we're one that is positively teeming with the blood of Israel, as are other nations of northern Europe such as the Scandinavian countries.

There is a lot of research out there on this subject, both LDS and non-LDS, and they make a very, very good case.