"Mormon Royalty"

[Somebodyz]

Scott, this is such a great topic. My paternal grandmother was a terrible hero-worshiper along with her sibs and my father's sisters. There's even a section in a genealogical book on why "We are Cousins to the Prophet," showing that we connected back with Lucy Mack's grandfather. My father still jokes that if somebody's shadow once fell on you in Wellsville, that person is your cousin.

This old silliness, much more widespread than my crazy relatives, will, hopefully, be rotted out at some point. In the meantime, however, human nature being what it is, we'll continue to see it.

My own claims to royalty:

Cousin-dom to The Prophet.

Great-Great Grandson to two [count 'em] two councilors to Lorenzo Snow when he was BE Stake President.

Great-Great Grandson to an actual "First bunch of Seventies."

Great-Great Grandson to a Nauvoo cop and JSJr bodyguard.

Great-Great Grandson to the owner of the first brick 2-story in Nauvoo.

Great Grandson to a Sugarhouse Cohab.

And yet nobody makes me stake president or asks my opinion about Mitt Romney or consults me on questions of over-ritualization of the Sacrament in Sandy wards.

So . . . I said "Other." Something very like that existed/exists, but not as either the reporter or the Huntsman numbskull intended.

This happens in the Church and out and isn't just a Utah 'thang'. My husband has a family member who, when introducing herself (to members) informs them she's the daughter of a former patriarch, she feels it gives her special rights and gifts (in this world and the next) She also informs the Bishop and members of her special status.

My mothers side of the family (non members) used to boast about being cousins (though they don't know by whom) to a famous the Nobel prize winner.

Perhaps when people do this we are hoping some of their magic will rub off on us

Personally I believe we fall or stand by our own deeds, but are blessed if we've had gifted, talented, faithful family (members or not). As I believe it takes generations to make a prophet.

Something as simple as family home evening, they way a family support or treat each other, all get passed along, and can seem second nature. Hopefully with each generation adding something positive to the next. So while I don't believe in a royalty, for those who are related to high profile members, perhaps they are blessed, and with that comes responsibilities to pass those gifts and blessing to the next generation. Not with puffed up pride, but thankfulness.

As someone who was put in an orphanage at 9months, family and it's dynamics has always been fascinating to me,I feel it's weight as a privilege and responsibility to those generations that follow.

[Garden Girl]

Perhaps when people do this we are hoping some of their magic will rub off on us

My Gospel Doctrine teacher's great-aunt was Bonnie Parker... of Bonnie and Clyde fame...

GG

[Scott Lloyd]

My Gospel Doctrine teacher's great-aunt was Bonnie Parker... of Bonnie and Clyde fame...

GG

Then I have

for her.

[Somebodyz]

My Gospel Doctrine teacher's great-aunt was Bonnie Parker... of Bonnie and Clyde fame...

GG

Now I'm picturing GG the pistols.

[alter idem]

I guess I'll weigh in. First, it was the media that claimed 'mormon royalty' and because this is america, it means something different than it would in Europe. It's really more the way others view a particular family as standing out because of the lineage--like the Astors or the Vanderbilts. My pedigree makes me one of those the media would claim as 'mormon royalty' so I'll tell my experiences on this topic. I was raised to feel that my lineage was special and that there were expectations on how I lived and the importance of being a good example of the gospel-because of the name that I carried. My Grandmother and Father especially encouraged us to live lives which would honor the sacrifices of our forebears. I grew up in California where no one cared about my parentage, but when I came to Utah, I did get some members who seemed to consider my lineage special and would refer to it at times. But, I'd say they are the exceptions.

IMO, a small percentage of members do view certain lineages as 'mormon royalty'. A larger percentage consider name and fame to be 'royalty'--like the Kennedys and Bushes among political circles. I felt Steve Young was viewed as royalty-- he had the name and the fame. The Huntsmans are descended from Willard Richards and LeGrand Richards and they are rich, so this sets them apart and I think they are treated differently as well. The Coveys are Richards descendants and they also are wealthy and prominent. I think many consider the Osmonds 'mormon royalty' because of their fame and I think people take notice if a person has the name 'Osmond'. But this is not surprising. Family and lineage and position have always been important in society and I think the earlier church members were no different than the culture which spawned them. The first families tended to marry other first families and members would even have themselves sealed to prominent members, forgoing their own genealogy. This attitude has lessened in our culture and I think it's lessened in LDS society as well, but it's not completely gone. There is still the tendency to treat people who are well educated, prominent, wealthy or famous differently than the more meek, unassuming members.

In our day, I think we tend to 'hero worship' just like the rest of our society which fawns over celebrities, the prominent and the wealthy. Certain LDS communities are probably more likely to do this than others. It is a reflection of culture.

While I admit I was raised to believe I was special, life helped me learn I'm no different from anyone else in the things I ought to do and hope to accomplish. I believe each us of has a heritage we should honor by living lives our ancestors would be pleased with.

I was listening to Marco Rubio's speech last night and it really hit me that parents sacrifice so they can give their children a better life--I know, my husband and I do that for our children. I think we all have great, noble people in our past who laid the foundation for the lives we live today. If it is a good foundation, we should honor their contributions and try to live lives that continue to add strength to that foundation so that our descendants can be blessed by our place within their lineage as well.

[BlueDreams]

I've heard the idea of mormon royalty. I just haven't seen it as a concrete ideal or as some form of entitlement. I've seen it in and outside of Utah...doesn't make a difference. I would see it as more of two things:

- families that are consistently called to leadership callings of some sort. They're usually idealized for their great families, great leadership, etc. they're usually well known in a geographic area.

- their family name is well known. It falls under celeb status or church apostles. They're just noted for their cool geology, family stories are more listened to, etc. Random hypotheses about their great inherited family traits/gifts or what it would be like to have an apostle/ga/prophet/actress as your grandfather/uncle/aunt/cousin/etc/

I've never really seen this with how many generations your family has been mormon. I'm 8th generation on my mom's side...I don't think I've ever noticed anything about that, in or outside the family. Sometimes people raised in the church are usefull in areas where the church is just being established since they'll have an idea about how programs run.

With luv,

BD

Edited August 31, 2012 by BlueDreams

[blackstrap]

1. In many areas in Candian mormondom you can't swing a cat and not hit someone from small town Southern Alberta( the mormon greenhouse).

2. Interesting that there are so few of Joseph Smith's direct descendents in such 'royal' lineages.

[Scott Lloyd]

2. Interesting that there are so few of Joseph Smith's direct descendents in such 'royal' lineages.

Interesting, perhaps, but not surprising when you consider the estrangement between Emma Smith and Brigham Young.

In recent years, a number of Joseph's descendants have joined the Church, and I'm confident those of his posterity who are Church members wil increase geometrically with each passing generation.

[KevinG]

I wonder how long before those disaffected Mormons who are popular with the press will be referred to as the Mormon intelligentsia?

[Sky]

I think that as long as members of the Church strive to live the gospel and keep their covenants, that's all that really matters in the end. It doesn't matter whether you are a fourth or fifth generation member or the first one to join in your family. The only thing that being a descendant of a prophet or apostle is good for is bragging rights, but that would be contrary to the spirit of the gospel.

[Duncan]

1. In many areas in Candian mormondom you can't swing a cat and not hit someone from small town Southern Alberta( the mormon greenhouse).

2. Interesting that there are so few of Joseph Smith's direct descendents in such 'royal' lineages.

it's true, where I am we have Edward J. Wood's grandson and he is a cousin to the late Elder Lowell D. Wood of the 70. Thing is he is SUPER humble guy, his wife and kids... Granted though even as "big" as Edward Wood is in Alberta few would have heard of him elsewhere in the Church even with a few articles written about him. Other areas have other local people. One thing that I want to do is to go to Alberta and randomly select a ward and see who has lived where I live. Because we are like a factory, we make Mormons and then ship them off to Alberta! active or inactive but they bugger off there!

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

.

In that thread, cinepro said he has encountered "enough" members of the Church from Utah who subscribe to the concept of Mormon royalty that he doesn't think it is alien to all of the faithful.

I live in Utah Cine, I never once have heard of this in all my years of living. Do some think it is some kind of big deal? Yeah I am sure they do. BUt there is nothing I have seen any were were members that are realated to GA's of the past get some kind of special treatment or think they are special. I would put it under 1% that think this way. What I mean is an actual person that thinks it means something to be related to a GA.

Interestingly enough, The only person I have met was in WV and he was a nephew of one of the apostles back in the 70's. He was a nice guy he did not act any differently than any other member. In fact I only heard his relation from my zone leaders. He never even brought it up. I asked him once about just to get a comfrimation.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Scott Lloyd]

it's true, where I am we have Edward J. Wood's grandson and he is a cousin to the late Elder Lowell D. Wood of the 70. Thing is he is SUPER humble guy, his wife and kids... Granted though even as "big" as Edward Wood is in Alberta few would have heard of him elsewhere in the Church even with a few articles written about him. Other areas have other local people. One thing that I want to do is to go to Alberta and randomly select a ward and see who has lived where I live. Because we are like a factory, we make Mormons and then ship them off to Alberta! active or inactive but they bugger off there!

FYI, here's an article I wrote in August after a visit to Cardston. One of the sources I quote in the story mentioned President Wood and reflected the same sentiment expressed here about southern Alberta being a greenhouse in which Latter-day Saints are nurtured and then exported.

[Duncan]

FYI, here's an articleI wrote in August after a visit to Cardston. One of the sources I quote in the story mentioned President Wood and reflected the same sentiment expressed here about southern Alberta being a greenhouse in which Latter-day Saints are nurtured and then exported.

It's funny I know two of the people you mention in the article! hee hee! One of those towns, Raymond, is one of those places where everyone is from there but like few actually still live there!

[Calm]

Everyone please note this is a 2012 thread....          

[ERayR]

By the way, I have no Nauvoo ancestors whatsoever. All of my people emigrated from Sweden or the British Isles after the settlement of the Salt Lake Valley. So I guess that puts me squarely in the Commoner category.*

My wife, on the other hand, does have Nauvoo ancestry. So hereafter, I suppose, my posterity will be part of the Gentry.

*Pardon me, DavidB for mentioning my ancestors. I hope you are not too incensed.

Edited October 24, 2015 by ERayR

[3DOP]

So who dug up this golden oldie?

 

Anyway...The only one I know of Steve Young...and since I am a 49er fan going back to John Brodie you can guess where I come down. ROYALTY

[Stargazer]

So who dug up this golden oldie?

 

Anyway...The only one I know of Steve Young...and since I am a 49er fan going back to John Brodie you can guess where I come down. ROYALTY

 

ROYALS

[Kenngo1969]

I just had to post here so I could see the beautiful visage of my thumbnail pic peering back at me from the entrance to all three forums on the main page.  That is all!  "Thank yuh!  Thank yuh verruh, verruh much, ladies an' gentlemen!"

[Meadowchik]

Royalty is assigned by birth. 

 

One of the new apostles introduced himself in the last GC by mentioning he came from a long line of Mormons, another talk mentioned being blessed with a testimony while being a member of such a family. While the Gospel can afford attributes and advantages to a person when they've been passed down through generations of tradition and refinement, that is, in the end, culture.  Culture has its limits, and testimony can transcend culture. (I'd guess that those references to those advantages are mostly an acknowledgement of being blessed and advantaged, admitting that all they've accomplished was not due to them, alone.  Also, such a reference paints a bit of historical context.)

 

I don't doubt that there is a cultural pecking order within the Church. Perhaps those outside the US may be perceived as lower, too. So it is "real" to some people.

 

Yet, the trick is, if there really is some who are closest to God than the rest, this cultural classism would be of little to no value, to them.

 

"The Lord looketh upon the heart."

[Lightbearer]

I am a descendent of the tribe of Joseph through Ephraim does that make me royalty? But seriously I have met a few people who loved to name drop but I don't think it is a peculiar trait to Mormons in general. As for certain families being blessed with great responsibilities I have no doubt...reference father Abraham, also Moses and Aaron. But the blessings of these lineages comes with a price of responsibility. Through your seed all the generations of the earth will be blessed. So in a way we as Saints are a royal generation and a chosen priesthood but that should not give us any pride or distinction above our non Israelite brethren. Because where much is given much is required, if we do not live up to our privileges we are liable to receive greater condemnation.

[Scott Lloyd]

Everyone please note this is a 2012 thread....          

Love the zombie emoticons.

[Calm]

You can use them too as Nemesis was kind enough to add them to the list...they are the last ones, so it takes a little patience.

[Scott Lloyd]

You can use them too as Nemesis was kind enough to add them to the list...they are the last ones, so it takes a little patience.

I'll probably be doing that a lot, now that I know they are available.

 

By the way, seeing this thread again, after all this time, I'm still amazed that there were actually 14 people voted "yes."

 

I made the point three years ago -- and I still believe it to be the case -- that most, if not all, of the "yes" respondents probably did not understand the question. I think at least some of them interpreted the question as asking, "Do Mormons believe that if one is descended from a Church president or apostle, that the descendant is entitled to be treated as royalty?"

 

Of course, that wasn't the question at all. It was, "Do you [Mr./Mrs./Miss Poll Respondent] personally believe that if one is descended from a Church president or apostle, that the descendant is entitled to be treated as royalty?"

 

Also, I added this proviso: "So as not to skew the results, let's limit this poll to those who regard themselves as faithful members of the Church, please." I'm not certain each and every respondent fit within that parameter.

 

In any case, the 82 percent "no" response is clear indication that the NBC program was wrong about there being a concept or a tradition of "Mormon royalty" in the Church.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

It is your thread....that means you can lock it and keep it from popping up to the top again if someone votes.    Hint, hint....