Can The Book Of Mormon & The Pearl Of Great Price Help To Restore Priesthood To Women?

[MormonMason]

I wanted to post this yesterday but could not get on the internet again until today.

Of course Jesus and John knew what they were talking about. I'm saying we may be making incorrect assumptions which are ultimately based on the scribal discomfort with feminine deity. Jesus and John certainly knew what they were talking about, but we can't assume that we have perfect copies of what Jesus and John originally said. If there was a debate in early Christianity specifically over the question of whether feminine deity was legitimate ("Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye") then it seems reasonable to suspect that scribal harmonization was not out of the question, leading to the masculine texts you've taken such pains to point out and that I've acknowledged.

Having looked at the manuscripts and variants I'd say that this is most likely not the case. Every single manuscript agrees on the use of the masculine in the passages where they occur in spite of of all the variants in these passages. The manuscripts are too widespread geographically to support such a notion for these passages. And, several of them predate Roman Catholic control of the various branches of the Church around the Mediterranean--when such changes would have been most likely, if they were to have occurred.

However, there is one very notable happenstance that is also attested in the manuscripts for John 14:16. In this passage the tendency is to move from masculines to neuters (manuscripts based upon which the KJV moves this direction) and there are even three manuscripts that move toward a feminine for one word of the passage by substitution of a word.

That being said, these three manuscripts date from the 4th to the 6 centuries CE. The oldest manuscript of the Gospel of John containing this portion (200 CE) has masculines throughout, that a following scribe changes to neuters and adds another neuter word originally missing. None of the oldest manuscripts have the feminine in that verse and the reading is a lot like the reading in the KJV, minus the omission of a word that other, later manuscripts have and with the presence of the masculines, contra the critical texts.

As I said, I think the position untenable from the available evidence. The only evidence of a change in one verse comes from later manuscripts whereas the oldest reading contains masculines. For the other verses, even with all the variants that exist in the manuscripts for these verses, all contain masculines without variation or change.

I also find it highly unlikely for this to be the case based upon the understanding that John writes in his 1 John regarding the Holy Ghost being "God's sperm" (1 John 3:9; KJV reads "seed"). Sperm, of course, is a masculine trait, and other writers of the New Testament have as written the implication of the Holy Spirit as the means of impregnation. Thus, it is very unlikely that John would have thought of the Holy Spirit as female or as heavenly mother.

I think I will stick with the safer course and the doctrine of the Church. But, to each his or her own. Just remember that the Toscano's got tossed from the Church for teaching such ideas as those mentioned here by you. Anyone here reading this thread ought to be aware of that.

I've got no problem with a female Wisdom, or with a mother Goddess. I just take issue with identifying her with the Holy Spirit as did the Gnostics. But, as to whether the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price can "restore" something that women never had, per the title of the thread, I'd say that it is doubtful.

[rodheadlee]

I have a question. Does anyone hear the voice of The Holy Spirit as the voice of a woman? The few times I've heard the voice of the Holy Spirit it was a man's voice. Do I hear a man's voice because that's what I expect to hear? or because the Holy Spirit is a male? One time was a direct answer to a prayer. Another time I had a direct command to go and be sealed to my wife. i consider them both legitimate contacs as i was inactive in the Church at the time but reading my scriptures and praying daily.The latter was knd of out of the blue and startled me as i was reflecting on my love for my wife but not really praying. Does anyon else hear a literal voice of the Holy Spirit?

[Tacenda]

I have a question. Does anyone hear the voice of The Holy Spirit as the voice of a woman? The few times I've heard the voice of the Holy Spirit it was a man's voice. Do I hear a man's voice because that's what I expect to hear? or because the Holy Spirit is a male? One time was a direct answer to a prayer. Another time I had a direct command to go and be sealed to my wife. i consider them both legitimate contacs as i was inactive in the Church at the time but reading my scriptures and praying daily.The latter was knd of out of the blue and startled me as i was reflecting on my love for my wife but not really praying. Does anyon else hear a literal voice of the Holy Spirit?

No, naughta, not yet. But would sure like that experience. Does one need to be tuned in to Him at a certain level that most don't even come close to? Edited October 11, 2012 by Tacenda

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

There were much more problematic things going on with the Toscanos than simply theorizing a feminine Holy Spirit of Wisdom. Frankly, tho, I don't think they deserved to be tossed out. ("I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter-day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don't prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine.")

I think we're still largely talking past each other. The simplest way to put the argument is that the texts we've labeled (and largely dismissed) as "gnostic" which explicitly speak of the Holy Spirit as the Mother quite possibly preserve aspects of an earlier Temple tradition which Christ as High Priest was trying to Restore by offering a renewal of the Spirit to be poured out. Our tradition has inherited texts which have likely been harmonized (long before the time period you've speculated on) in the attempt to preserve the male view of deity, but it's impossible to deny that this was a subject of controversy then, just as it is now -- hence all the stuff from Nag Hammadi, etc. If Wisdom (present in the Anointing Oil from the Olive Tree of Life) was a Priestly archetype, then She certainly had some sort of Priesthood; Nephi himself states at one point that the Holy Ghost gave him "authority" to speak certain things and deny them not. Jacob speaks of the "mother tree". Etc.

[MormonMason]

The Gnostic texts are aberrations and come from traditions that also teach that God (the one who created the world, called by them the abortion of darkness) raped Eve, and that the resurrection is already past and occurs at one's baptism. I know of no legitimate temple tradition that teaches or taught that the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother.

It is highly unlikely for most all of the masculines in chapters 14-16 the Gospel of John to have been harmonized. The evidence is just too geographically widespread to show anything otherwise, particularly in manuscripts that come from lands where the Catholic Church was not in control at the time. The further one goes back in the manuscripts, all of the masculines occur. It is not until we branch out into the fourth through sixth centuries do we see modifications in these texts. But, in most all of them the masculines still are there. Because of how there is no variation of the masculines in those passages among all the manuscripts it is highly likely that in those masculines we have the text essentially as it was written by John. Harmonization leaves evidence and there is none here in these passages in the Gospel of John in question.

But, Wisdom is not the Holy Ghost. Of course the Holy Ghost has authority to give to Nephi to speak. The Holy Ghost repeats what he hears from the Father and the Son and received his authority from the Father and Son, and not acting independently. Having authority does not state that the Holy Ghost is Wisdom and does not identify the Spirit of the Lord with Heavenly Mother.

In addition, it is one matter to believe a false doctrine. It is wholly another to teach it repeatedly to members of the Church and get people to do things that are not doctrinal and to mislead others. They were asked to stop. They refused and continued, and were influencing people to pray to Mother when God commanded no such thing. This necessitated the protection of the Church and their being tossed out for it.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

The "gnostics" (hardly a monolithic group) were aberrations insofar as normative Christianity declared them to be so. (Mormonism itself has been classified as "gnostic" by some; does that have anything to do with whether our teachings are legitimate?) Of course there's weird stuff in there, but that shouldn't discount every claim they make. After all, what was canonized is hardly better than the elements you mentioned which I can only assume you meant to be examples of shocking unorthodoxy.

In our own canonized scriptures we've got absolutely horrible stuff like God zapping Nadab and Abihu, all the stuff in Leviticus (supposedly from God) about burning harlots and adulterers and keeping slaves, God punishing Miriam with a plague and "delighting" in other diseases, God causing people's bowels to fall out, God causing the earth to swallow women and children whole, God telling Joshua's army to kill innocent children, God killing Abimelech by having the woman drop the millstone on his head, Jephthah sacrificing his own daughter, Samson gripped by the Spirit to kill Philistines and light animals on fire, the woman cut into twelve pieces and sent to various territories in Israel, Samuel telling Saul to kill infants and sucklings, the Lord watching as Samuel cut down Agag, Elijah slaughtering the Priests of Ba'al, Elisha sending she-bears to mangle kids just because they teased him, Priests slaughtered and burned on altars, the Lord saying that the dogs shall eat Jezebel ...

... you know: inspired, uplifting, faith-promoting, orthodox scriptures, filled with nothing but virtuous things of good report.

There's no reason there should be a difference between the copies you're talking about; again, I've never said there should be. I've acknowledged repeatedly the masculine usages in our texts. Normally, the type of speculative reconstruction I've attempted would not be justified, but in this particular case, outside factors do call into question the legitimacy of what we have: namely, if there was a controversy over the gender of the Holy Spirit (as the conflicting usages in different sects seem to demonstrate), then we should expect to see different texts emphasizing different genders, with each side being seen as "unorthodox" by the other. Barker and others have done much to demonstrate that Christ's Wisdom teachings (among other controversial topics) were fulfilling and renewing an earlier tradition and not something new; if that is so, we should see echoes in later traditions descended from that same stream such as those classified under the "gnostic" rubric, though no tradition is pure.

Where does the tradition of Lady Wisdom (Bird-faced Asherah, a Tree of Life) disappear to? Where does the tradition of the Holy Spirit of Wisdom (the "Holy Dove, Hidden Mother", who is "justified of Her children") come from? Why would Christ try to "renew" a third deity in opposition to "the Wisdom of the world" if there were no precursors in earlier thought? Why the bird-goddess iconography (ie the Dove)? Why the cross-cultural mother-goddess/feminine-tree symbolism included in Revelation and passed on through Marian art? Why the absurd overreaction from the Deuteronomists (both ancient and modern-day) towards Asherah? Of course we can always dismiss anything by claiming it's not a "legitimate" Temple tradition, but that legitimacy is exactly what is ambiguous. You've focused on the grammatical issue without addressing the overwhelming outside context which calls the grammar into question.

Edited October 11, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Calm]

There were much more problematic things going on with the Toscanos than simply theorizing a feminine Holy Spirit of Wisdom. Frankly, tho, I don't think they deserved to be tossed out. ("I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter-day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don't prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine.")

JS "tossed" people who contradicted his teachings with their own public teachings ( as opposed to personal beliefs) did he not?

[volgadon]

Why the bird-goddess iconography (ie the Dove)?

You'll probably disagree with me, which is fine, but I think there is a better explanation for the sign of the dove than bird-goddess iconography. The sign has to do with sacrifice and a special, chosen status. Several midrashic and targumic references indicate just that. Some of the info is contained in William R. Stegner's article, "The Baptism of Jesus: A Story Modeled on the Binding of Jesus."

[Senator]

Does anyon else hear a literal voice of the Holy Spirit?

I've never heard voices.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Volga: Well, not to say that symbols aren't multivalent. Certainly a special chosen status would not be mutually exclusive with Goddess connotations.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to the article, wouldja? My university library subscription just lapsed, and I don't currently have access to JSTOR or the like; I'm looking at the Biblical Archaeology Website's teaser for Stegner's piece, and the Join Now! button is cruelly taunting my empty wallet.

Edited October 11, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[MormonMason]

You'll probably disagree with me, which is fine, but I think there is a better explanation for the sign of the dove than bird-goddess iconography. The sign has to do with sacrifice and a special, chosen status. Several midrashic and targumic references indicate just that. Some of the info is contained in William R. Stegner's article, "The Baptism of Jesus: A Story Modeled on the Binding of Jesus."

Volgadon,

Minor correction: "The Baptism of Jesus: A Story Modeled on the Binding of Isaac."

Jeremy,

You can obtain a copy here:

http://store.bib-arc...asp?number=7H23

I do not at present know of a legal online source that is free.

Edit: I just got called away. I'll have to address your other comments later.

Edited October 11, 2012 by MormonMason

[volgadon]

Volgadon,

Minor correction: "The Baptism of Jesus: A Story Modeled on the Binding of Isaac."

Jeremy,

You can obtain a copy here:

http://store.bib-arc...asp?number=7H23

I do not at present know of a legal online source that is free.

Edit: I just got called away. I'll have to address your other comments later.

Embarrassing. I posted in a hurry before leaving, this morning.

[volgadon]

Here is a portion:

Moreover, the words the heavenly voice addresses to Jesus have a direct relationship to the account of the binding of Isaac.

Says the heavenly voice: “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased.”

In the Greek translation of the Bible known as the Septuagint, translated from the Hebrew about 300 B.C., Isaac is referred to as “the beloved son.” Thus the heavenly voice echoes the Greek translation of Genesis.^e

The second half of the message from the heavenly voice, “with thee I am well pleased,” also finds an echo in the binding of Isaac. In effect, the heavenly voice tells Jesus that he is the recipient of God’s “elective good pleasure.”⁸ The Greek word for “pleased” is eudokeoµ; it can also mean “choice,” conveying the notion of election. The idea of election is found twice in the Targumic accounts of the binding of Isaac. There the heavenly voice applies the Aramaic term for men elected by God (yachida) to both Isaac and Abraham.^f

Another connection that has frequently been made between the two stories is that Isaac was a near-sacrifice, while Jesus, the lamb of God, was actually sacrificed.^g In the Targums to Leviticus 22:27, Isaac is referred to as a “lamb who has been elected/chosen.”

Thus, the concept of God’s choice or election is found both in the story of Jesus’ baptism and in the binding of Isaac.^h

One of the most enigmatic details in the baptism story is the dove: “The Spirit descend[ed] upon [Jesus] like a dove.”

Most commentators see the dove as a symble of Israel. A beautiful Midrash comments on the phrase from the Song of Songs 4:1, ⁱ “Thine eyes are as doves”:⁹

As the dove is chaste, so Israel are (sic) chaste. As the dove puts forth her neck for slaughter, so do (sic) Israel, as it says, ‘For Thy sake we are killed all the day’ [psalm 44:23). As the dove atones for iniquities, so Israel atone (sic) for the other nations.”

The dove shares a remarkable characteristic with Isaac: both the dove and Isaac stretch forth their necks as sacrifices. As the Targums say: “Come, see two unique individuals [Abraham and Isaac] … the one being sacrificed [isaac] stretches forth his neck.” Note the equation. The dove, a symbol for Israel, makes atonement and stretches forth the neck. Isaac, too, stretches forth his neck on the altar as he makes atonement for Israel. Could the dove, associated with Isaac in later rabbinic literature, have been already associated with him in New Testament times? Could the dove in the baptism story have been a reminder of the similar roles played by Isaac and Jesus? Here is another bridge between the figure of Isaac and the story of Jesus’ baptism.

[mfbukowski]

I guess I have the same problem with this stuff as I have with Kabbalah.

I mean studying the history of the symbolism and stuff is spiffy and fascinating but in what sense does one determine which if any of this is "true" in any sense? (And I do mean ANY sense- pragmatically or otherwise)

I see the definite value in worshiping both male and female principles, but to a large extent we already do that. I see value in the notion of the unity of opposites - or "opposition in all things"- yin and yang, self and other etc.

In my personal experience spiritually, I have no doubt that there is an intelligence which controls the universe into which I can somehow tap. I know that that intelligence knows me individually and can and does guide my life and tells me individually what to do where to go and how to act. I know that I can receive communication from that intelligence which tells me things I could never know naturally- that someone is in trouble, or needs me, that I need to call this person or that person, or what to say and when to say it (though I wish I followed those promptings much better than I do)

But straight up, beyond all of that, I don't know if who is speaking to me is male or female, a bird or a dolphin or a tree.

I have a testimony of the church -1- because it teaches the most consistent explanation of that experience and all others I have including what I think is the best philosophy to put it together into a coherent explanation and mostly because of -2- I feel that that intelligence which I feel speak to me has told me that this is the place I need to be.

So combining all these details with that somewhat amorphous but yet highly personal and CERTAIN still small voice I experience, is highly problematic.

I don't hear a male or female voice- but I am certain that I feel intelligence pouring into me.

I don't identify that Intelligence with trees or females or really even males to be perfectly honest. I get all that from the church which comes closest to explaining all of it in one place in one set of beliefs and with the best overall world view I have heard and that same Intelligence confirms to me this is where I should be, in no uncertain terms.

That's about all I know about this stuff. That's about all I need I guess and I am not sure how you know any of the rest of it is true or not, and I am not sure that knowing all that is important.

[Batgirlsmom]

Fascinating thread. I will have to go back through and read the entire thing again. It reminds me of a very interesting class I once took from a Jewish professor who went into depth about Hebrew mythology regarding God's wife. It actually influenced a number of my daughters' given names.

Someone had a comment regarding when women in the Church held the priesthood. My understanding is that as part of my temple marriage I do hold the priesthood. I just do not hold a priesthood office nor am I currently allowed to exercise any powers of the priesthood.

[Batgirlsmom]

Regarding the gender of the Holy Ghost: I will not go into detail because these experiences are sacred to me, but I know (not believe) that the Holy Ghost is masculine. This in no way discounts the beauty of the feminine, however. And, if their is duality in eternal states (man cannot be without woman in exaltation), then I would not doubt a female counterpart to the Holy Ghost exists. Again, I now have to go back reread it all!

[changed]

..... the women were baking cakes to honor the Queen of Heaven as they should have.

I’m taking a beginner Hebrew class right now, and we learned about the women’s duty of making challah, of breaking off a piece, of how it is braided etc. etc. is very interesting and rich in symbolism. Interesting, that in the Old Testament, it was the women’s job to break and bless the bread (or to break a piece of the dough off before the bread was baked, and present the dough to a priest) – Jesus also broke bread, and now within our own church, it is the priesthood responsibility to break and bless the sacrament bread. What do you think the transition of women making, blessing, and breaking the bread – to Jesus breaking the bread (and miraculously providing bread to feed the multitude), and now the priesthood breaking the bread represents? Perhaps it represents Jesus lifting the Adamic curse and all that this curse entails?.

“The first time that the mitzvah of hafrashat challah is referred to in the Torah is in connection with our Mothers Sarah and Rivkah. … “Avraham rushed to Sarah’s tent, and he said, ‘Quikly, get three se’ah of sifted flour, knead them and make loaves!’” (Genesis 18:6).” - http://www.secretofc...ing-in-the-home

If Abraham and Isaac represent Heavenly Father sacrificing Jesus, then that would mean Sarah represents our Heavenly Mother. (I think Jesus – Their “only” son being born to a handmaid, is paralleled within the Abraham account of Sarah giving Hagar to Abraham – that just as Abraham got off at the last minute and did not have to sacrifice his son, Sarah got off at the last minute too, and was able to bear a son in her old age… I think one of the reasons Jesus was baptized was to be born of his Heavenly Mother, as he was already born to his Heavenly Father, and that the unidentified voice from heaven (with dove) who introduces him as a beloved Son may have been the voice of our Heavenly Mother – it does not say specifically who the voice is, everyone just assumes it was the voice of the Father.)

Something else from Hebrew class - "the scrolls is sewn onto wooden rollers called Eitzei Chayim (trees of life)." - http://www.templesan...Torah/Torah.htm

... she or he would not have made the connection between Lady Wisdom and the lower-case "wisdom" often mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Through mere punctuation, the word becomes an attribute, rather than a person with a title named for that attribute. Yet if we look at the surrounding context in which the word "wisdom" appears, we are often justified in thinking it might be referring to Lady Wisdom Herself.

Just curious, I know there are many names for G-d and the Savior (bread of life, shepherd, hope (1 Tim 1:1, Col 1:27), king, lamb, lion, word, rejected stone, rock, protection etc. etc.) and it seems like there would be many different names for Heavenly Mother too – more than just wisdom. I think “charity” would also be a fitting name, also names that are associated with the tree of life – such as staff, or rod, also "Zion" is feminine. I also think She is the personification of "The Love of God" who sheds Herself abroad within our hearts, and "the pure Love of Christ". What other names do you think She might go by? It certainly is interesting to read the scriptures with the idea that we are not reading about attributes, but about a deity.

I agree that the Holy Spirit certainly has feminine qualities, although I think the Spirit is a mediator for our Mother (as Jesus is a mediator for our Father). I think there are 4 members within the Godhead...

(New Testament | Hebrews 9:3 - 5)

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

Which had the:

1.) golden censer, and the

ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the:

2.) golden pot that had manna, and

3.) Aaron's rod that budded, and

4.) the tables of the covenant;

And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat;

"

1.) golden censer, I think the golden censer represents the Holy Spirit, both associated with fire.

" Censer - A metal vessel made to receive burning charcoal from the altar, and in which incense was sprinkled by a priest (Lev. 16:12; Num. 4:14; 1 Kgs. 7:50; 2 Chr. 26:18–19; Ezek. 8:11; Luke 1:9; Rev. 8:3–4). (Bible Dictionary | C Censer:Entry)

12 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD (Old Testament | Leviticus 16:12)

45 And behold, the Holy Spirit of God did come down from heaven, and did enter into their hearts, and they were filled as if with fire, and they could speak forth marvelous words. (Book of Mormon | Helaman 5:45)

In the ark

2.) golden pot that had manna - the "bread from heaven"" (Ps. 78:24–25; John 6:31). I think this is a symbol for Christ, who would be the Bread of Life (John 6:31–35).

Think of the sacrament with bread used to symbolize Christ etc.

3.) Aaron's rod that budded represents the tree of life, and is a symbol of Heavenly Mother who is currently veiled from our view by cherubims…Holy of Holy behind a veil. (women wear wedding veils, long hair, modest dress – Adam/Eve received cloths/veils at the same time tree of life was veiled)

18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. (Old Testament | Proverbs 3:13 - 18)

Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life ..(Old Testament | Genesis 3:24)

And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; Heb 9:3-5

4. tables of the covenant; the law/justice is symbolic of God

13 the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God ...

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:13)

14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

(Old Testament | Psalms 89:14)

It makes sense that the Holy of Holies – a place representing heaven, would contain objects symbolic of our Heavenly Family don’t you think?

1. golden censer - Holy Spirit
   
2. manna/bread from Heaven- Christ,
   
3. Aaron's rod that budded/tree of life- Heavenly Mother
   
4. tables of the covenant; the law/justice - God
   

Those who say that the Church must wait until after death for women to be Priestesses are merely pushing that day farther away, when we should be grasping for it now.

I have mixed feeling about this one. I think it would be wonderful to have the priesthood, just as it is wonderful to have the Holy Spirit, and to be able to be baptized – that not seeking the priesthood is not to recognize what it is, or to belittle it. There is much to be learned through not having it – for a time – though. I tell my daughters a story about a princess – once upon a time, there was a princess born to good parents, but through some hurt feelings, she ended up being raised in the woods by some fairy Godmothers (everyone knows that part of the story). As a child, this princess does not know who she really is, she thinks she is just a commoner like everyone else. She works, and learns, and pays taxes, and finds joy and respect for her fellow peasants. She learns what it is to be ruled over, she learns what it is to be a follower instead of a leader… then she meets the prince, and learns who she really is etc. etc. and the girl who was once a commoner becomes a queen. I think she becomes the best queen there ever was, because a good leader intimately understands their followers. She understands her people, because she lived among them, as one of them. She understands the joys of being “with” rather than “in front of” others, etc. etc. In any event, I think women within the church are gaining a knowledge of what it means to be “with” one another, and we are gaining that knowledge through not having the priesthood.

Pharaoh was blessed with the blessings of the Earth and Wisdom … which cursed him from the Priesthood.

If women were given the priesthood, would that take it away from the men? It does seem that where there is a priestess, it is because there are no worthy priests to fill the role… and where there are worthy priests, there are no priestesses.

never-the-less, we are commanded to ask, seek, and find…

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 6:5 - 12)

5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.

7 Seek not for riches but for wisdom, and behold, the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto you, …

12 Make not thy gift known unto any save it be those who are of thy faith. Trifle not with sacred things.

Frustrating, we are told to ask, and receive, but then we are told not to share what we find…

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 10:35 - 37)

35 Marvel not that I said unto you: Here is wisdom, show it not unto the world—for I said, show it not unto the world, that you may be preserved.

36 Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous;

37 But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter.

Edited October 14, 2012 by changed

[treeface]

I remember reading in Ender's Game about how the main character's mother, who used to be a Mormon, once placed her hands on her son's head and gave him a blessing, and I think I remember reading that she blessed him by faith or something like that, so not by the power of the priesthood. I haven't read it in awhile, so I don't know for sure. Anyway, I know it's a fictional book, but the author is LDS, so is there any truth to this? Can women give blessings? I've never seen it happen myself.

See also Saints, by the same author, set in the time of Joseph Smith.

Apparently in the early days of the LDS church women did give blessings, and Joseph Smith had an opinion on the subject. If you have a copy of Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, turn to page 224 and start with the first complete paragraph, and continue to the first paragraph on the next page.

[changed]

I have a question. Does anyone hear the voice of The Holy Spirit as the voice of a woman?

I've only heard the voice once, it startled/scared me (I was in the shower at the time, thinking a few things through, I thought I was alone, in a nice private setting, with my thoughts all to myself - then I heard a voice... I felt exposed, that my privacy had been invaded, scared of some intruder in the restroom ... it took me a few minutes (grabbed a towel to cover up) of looking around the bathroom, not seeing anyone, to realize where the voice had come from... only 3 words were spoken, and I was so startled, that I don't think I could analyze 100% to say male or female... but I lean towards saying it was male... at least I don't think I would have instinctively reacted to be so scared of it if it had been a female voice. ... yea, so there is no privacy when it comes to G-d.... "fear not" they say... hopefully next time I won't be so fearful.

Edited October 14, 2012 by changed

[rodheadlee]

No, naughta, not yet. But would sure like that experience. Does one need to be tuned in to Him at a certain level that most don't even come close to?

i don't know. I'm a spiritual hard head. I suspect He yelled at me one time to get the point across as I was making Him weary with my prayers.

[rodheadlee]

batgirlsmom and changed, thanks for your posts.